[quote]grappler wrote:
Any positive changes to the economy should be attributed to Greenspan, not Bush.
I’m with Elk on this one.[/quote]
Does that mean that only the recession is Bush’s fault?
Does that also mean that the boom of the late 90’s was Greenspan, not Clinton?
It doesn’t matter who’s actually responsible for a change in the economy - the President gets the credit/blame.
However, Bush’s tax cuts have more to do with the economy’s uptick than the left want to admit to.
Grappler- Exactly what did Greenspan do and why would only his actions be responsible for any economic expansion?
Schrauper
Goldberg
With the money all of you right wingers say Kerry has he could have easily gotten out of it like your hero dubya did. What are you trying to say about the Navy? The brownwater Navy including the riverine force which Kerry was a part of and Navy SEALS saw more consistent action then some infantry units! The Vietcong used the waterways like we use our highways, so don’t be implying any bullshit about the Navy! What gives you a qualified opinion on what services saw dangerous action or not?
Rainjack
I don’t ever bring up my military service in non-related issues or day to day matters. In the topics we debate mainly the war, Kerry and Bush, and the actions of this administration. I feel it is at the heart of the matter namely and I will say it again the character of a President to send off americans to die when he did not have the character to take his place when he was called. You people on the right are the ones that made fervent patriotism an issue. Bringing in to question anyones patriotism who did not support war. When those of us democrat and republican alike point out the hypocrisy of many of your allegations such as pointing out Bush’s getting out of going to war you cry foul! Rainjack if you don’t like my posts don’t fucking read em!
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Rainjack
I don’t ever bring up my military service in non-related issues or day to day matters. In the topics we debate mainly the war, Kerry and Bush, and the actions of this administration. I feel it is at the heart of the matter namely and I will say it again the character of a President to send off americans to die when he did not have the character to take his place when he was called. [/quote]
Please don’t disparage the National Guard. They are an essential part of our military.
Attacking Bush’s character for joining the Guard is attacking the Guard itself through implication.
[quote]Goldberg wrote:
Kerry’s balls were so big that he dodged the service as long as he could and only chose the Navy(could be wrong on the branch) when it was clear he couldnt avoid service. He didnt exactly “volunteer” to go. [/quote]
It’s not really Kerry’s actions during his service that anger so many. It’s his betrayal of the services after his separation.
It’s a common misconception that those attacking Kerry’s patriotism are attacking his actions in Vietnam. I’d say it’s more of a red herring introduced by campaign strategists and their allies.
The problem is that many pro-Bush arguments get sidetracked over this red herring, like they get sidetracked when the pro-Kerry side points out that Dick Cheney also voted against many weapons systems. Most Kerry detractors know that
a: Kerry’s service was fine (except for those who served with him, many of these people say he’s not fit for command)
b: Dick Cheney is not being elected President. Neither is Bill Clinton.
Mutt - conservative libertarian who is voting for Bush, because he’s the lesser of two evils domestically, and Reagan-like on foreign policy.
[quote]Goldberg wrote:
Kerry’s balls were so big that he dodged the service as long as he could and only chose the Navy(could be wrong on the branch) when it was clear he couldnt avoid service. He didnt exactly “volunteer” to go. [/quote]
That’s just an outright lie.
[quote]Mutt wrote:
Please don’t disparage the National Guard. They are an essential part of our military.
Attacking Bush’s character for joining the Guard is attacking the Guard itself through implication. [/quote]
Bullshit. The Guard wasn’t deployed overseas back then the way they are now. In the 60’s the primary reason, maybe the only real reason, for joining the Guard was to avoid the draft.
Attacking Bush’s character for joining the Guard doesn’t reflect one way or another on the Guard, it simply points out that Bush did whatever he could to avoid going active duty in southeast Asia.
I might have done the same thing, especially if I had a rich daddy to grease the skids for me. But like 99.999% of the people who did exactly that, I’d admit it. Bush just doesn’t have the balls to do that.
I didn’t join the Marines, I joined the Air Force. My decision was based entirely upon not wanting to place myself in danger or be stuck on a ship.
However, if I were running for President I wouldn’t say this, just as I wouldn’t call Chirac a corrupt pansy-boy. There’s certain things you just don’t say as a politician, whether or not they are true.
Sometimes I wish Bush had bigger balls.
I still support him, merely because voting libertarian would help the left.
Elk,
Your contention that Kerry could have used his “money” to stay out of the service is inaccurate. Kerry married money long after he was released from the service. In fact he was a sitting Senator at the time.
I am not sure on this, but I think he divorced his first wife to marry into “the money.” The Hientz ketchup fortune.
Hey…I’m sure he loves her…I’m sure that the money had nothing to do with it…I’m sure that Kerry is not an oportunist…yea…I’m sure 
As far as Bush’s service or lack thereof, Jon McCain, one of the brightest stars to ever wear a uniform for the US, is campaigning with Bush out West.
McCain, a Bush rival but still a supporter, obviously doesn’t measure Bush by his reserve status, and that is one hell of an endorsement.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Elk,
I am not sure on this, but I think he divorced his first wife to marry into “the money.” The Hientz ketchup fortune.
Hey…I’m sure he loves her…I’m sure that the money had nothing to do with it…I’m sure that Kerry is not an oportunist…yea…I’m sure :)[/quote]
Once again your immaturity comes shining through, zebbie. All of this is pretty easy to find with a few keystrokes in google, but hey, why let facts get in the way of your childish speculations. Kerry separated from his first wife in 1982 and was divorced in 1988. He started dating Heinz (not Hientz, dipshit) in 1993 and they were married in 1995. Pretty opportunistic, huh?
It’s funny that you call the Bush supporters hypoctrites.
You are the one pounding your chest and giving Kerry all the props for his “Heroic Service” - all of about 4 months worth.
You are the one telling everyone who reads your posts how much of a coward and a liar Bush is because he didn’t serve in the manner you feel is befitting a president.
Didn’t you vote for Clinton - not once, but twice.?
Wasn’t Clinton an admitted Draft dodger?
Didn’t Clinton send troops into harms way on serveral occasions, never once getting U.N. approval?
Wasn’t Clinton’s opponents, both in 92 and 96, decorated WWII vets?
You sound like the hypocrite to me, but I could be wrong
But that’s the key word right there, rainman. Admitted. He never denied it or lied about it like georgieboy does.
But again, he didn’t attempt to belittle or minimize his opponents’ record, like bushleague and his supports have done.
Very profound statement.
Clinton has NEVER EVER admitted to doing anything wrong.
The point I was trying to make, which you obviously and predictably missed, is that you guys are the ones hollering hypocrite about G-dubs attack on Kerry’s service record.
The left also contends that we on the right are hypocrites as well for supporting Bush who - according to the left - has no military service.
Elk states ad-nauseum that he cannot support Bush because he sherked his responsibility to serve when he was presented the opportunity.
Yet you left wingers, in your anyone-but-Bush fervor, are living examples of the hypocrisy you accuse the right of having.
Unless you voted for Bush41 in 1992, as well as Bob Dole in 1996, your arguments about military leadership in this current election year are null and void.
When presented with true military leadership and courage - the left chose a draft dodging murderous liar.
That is hypocrisy - and I am not wrong.
tme,
The fact that Kerry divorced his first wife several years prior to marrying into the Heintz fortune has nothing to do with him being an opportunist! It simply means that he did not act like a certain fellow democrat that used to occupy the oval office.
It simply means that he was single when he decided to raise his financial status in life.
Since you seem to be an expert on the Heintz/Kerry romance, please tell me how long Kerry waited before after the untimely death of Ms. Heintz husband before he called on her? I’m just curious. Also, her former husband was “Senator Heintz” I believe. True?
[quote]tme wrote:
belittle or minimize his opponents’ record, like bushleague and his supports have done. [/quote]
I don’t recall Bush ever belittling Kerry’s record.
I’m not saying he didn’t; it’s just that it doesn’t sound like Bush.
When did this happen?
Two years or so, zebbie, from what I’ve read. Pretty sudden, huh? And yes it was “Senator” Heinz (still not Hientz or Heintz, dipshit. Go look at a ketchup bottle or something. No wonder you have trouble doing your own research on it.)
I know, what a miracle that they would have even met, isn’t it? I mean, a Senator meating another Senator’s wife, can you even imagine?
But no doubt you’ve figured it all out. John Kerry separated from his first wife in 1982, knowing that he’d get elected to the senate, meet another senator’s wife, that other senator would die in a plane crash in 1991, and by 1995 he’d be hooked up. Very clever of him alright, zebbie. Of course the little fact of pre-nuptuals and separation of assests doesn’t factor in to your little fantasy either.
tme -
before you go off half-cocked and critcize someone else’s spelling, you might want to proof read your own shit before you post.
it’s meeting, not meating
it’s assets, not assests
and zeb’s the dipshit?
rainman, you’re absolutely right I should have proofread that. I apologize, I was in a hurry at the time.
But my two spelling slips don’t in any way alter the fact that zebbie is a dipshit.