Or maybe you are correct in the sense that the threat of violent consequences keeps most people in line. [/quote]
I mean even if given the capacity for violence most people don’t go through with it for whatever reason – fear of retaliation or maybe their own self-conscious.
If everyone went around doing the things they actually think about doing it would be a different world.
Violence has “solved” every major conflict in the world since the caveman equivalents of the Sharks and the Jets, and it is what keeps most people “civilized.” [/quote]
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Violence has “solved” every major conflict in the world since the caveman equivalents of the Sharks and the Jets, and it is what keeps most people “civilized.” [/quote]
Violence creates conflict; it cannot solve conflicts.
Peace and trade solve conflicts and violence disrupts those things.
As long as Religion is a part of societies around the world, there will always be violence. It is what their books mandate. People will kill and be killed for the imaginary approval of mythological wizard. People who are religious value the idea of an afterlife more than life it self, which is why most of the people who support wars are religious, and most atheists ae anti-war.
Now it is time for the warmongers to search google and show me the very few examples through out history of atheists that started wars.
My response will be: Look at the world today. The most violent societies are always the most religious. Period.
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
As long as Religion is a part of societies around the world, there will always be violence.
[/quote]
Really? That’s a remarkably bold statement to go unsubstantiated. How so?
Another unsubstantiated bold assertion. How so?
Where do I start? Fredererick the great? Napoleon Bonaparte? Adolf Hitler? Stalin? Pol pot? Shall I go on?
[quote]
My response will be: Look at the world today. The most violent societies are always the most religious. Period.[/quote]
The most violent societies? Columbia? Mexico? Russia? What on earth are you talking about? Definitely amongst the most idiotic posts I have come across here.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
War has been around since human civilization began. It has always been ugly, inhumane and despicable.
The USA is part of human civilization. It has waged war throughout its past and it will continue to do so. However, in the annals of history no country, and I mean no fucking country in history bar none, has done more when it comes to waging war “with a conscience” and to avoid as much senseless depraved killing as possible.
If anyone wishes to dispute this please come armed with examples of countries who have waged wars humanely. Or more humanely.[/quote]
You are right about this. I’ve tried pointing this out before and no one likes to admit it/discuss it: humans LOVE war. It’s our favorite game. I bet half the guys on here debating against it are taking breaks to play call of duty or world of warcraft or some other version of war where they don’t get hurt.
Our leaders also love war. They have it bred into them. So do all of the other leaders across the globe. These guys have the desire to dominate and they don’t have to be the one standing behind a gun to do it. In the mean time, they build up the guys who do stand behind the gun by “giving them honor and free education”. It’s a little sickening when you think about it, but in light of the fact that it seems to be bred into us, what can be done about it?
To add to my previous post, most of the guys I’ve met who went into war cited “Adventure” as one of the reasons they did it. They of course quickly learned that they didn’t like it, but they really believed before they went that it was going to be a badass kind of cool. Many guys want the perceived excitement and respect from being involve with the military. I’ve also heard more than once that if it didn’t involve killing, “war would be the most addictive game known to man.”
violence, conflicts and aggression have been around since the beginning of humanity, but war itself is a pretty recent invention.
We invented it during the neolithic, at the same time we invented agriculture, metalworking, antropomorphic deities and social stratifications.
so we have two possibilites here :
going back to the paleolithic
evolving toward a ‘post-neolithic’ society.
[quote]fattymcfatso wrote:
As long as Religion is a part of societies around the world, there will always be violence.
[/quote]
Really? That’s a remarkably bold statement to go unsubstantiated. How so?
Another unsubstantiated bold assertion. How so?
Where do I start? Fredererick the great? Napoleon Bonaparte? Adolf Hitler? Stalin? Pol pot? Shall I go on?
[quote]
My response will be: Look at the world today. The most violent societies are always the most religious. Period.[/quote]
The most violent societies? Columbia? Mexico? Russia? What on earth are you talking about? Definitely amongst the most idiotic posts I have come across here.[/quote]
Unsubstantiated? Really? Have you ever heard of an area of the world called the middle east? I guess it is pretty easy to forget those guys since we have been at war with them for ten years now. There are 3 MAIN causes for every war in the history of man kind. Religion, revenge, and greed. People generally don’t blow themselves up in the name of Greed, but religion and revenge fit.
75% of Mexicans identify as catholic and 90% of Columbians do too. Don’t know what that tells you. Look at the prison population in America how many atheists are convicted felons versus God heads.
It seems as though one of the least religious countries in the world is not very fond of War. No wars since 1814.
It also seems as though these countries love to fight. Are they Religious in this part of the world perhaps?
I know it and I am pretty sure anyone who can see and hear what is happening in the world today knows it. Religious people love violence. Why do you think so many religious people join the military in America?
[quote]kamui wrote:
violence, conflicts and aggression have been around since the beginning of humanity, but war itself is a pretty recent invention.
We invented it during the neolithic, at the same time we invented agriculture, metalworking, antropomorphic deities and social stratifications.
so we have two possibilites here :
going back to the paleolithic
evolving toward a ‘post-neolithic’ society.
and they are both extremely theoretical.
[/quote]
This is incorrect. Perhaps you mean large scale war, but even some of the most rural, hunter-gatherer tribes participate in war. Chimpanzees also go to war with each other.
Violence has “solved” every major conflict in the world since the caveman equivalents of the Sharks and the Jets, and it is what keeps most people “civilized.” [/quote]
That I doubt.
It is more of a habit. [/quote]
Pish posh! If you want to know why wars and internal conflicts arise start with a study of human nature.
Unsubstantiated? Really? Have you ever heard of an area of the world called the middle east? I guess it is pretty easy to forget those guys since we have been at war with them for ten years now.
[/quote]
Actually we have been at war with Iran since 1979 however it’s one sided. They wage war against us, we sanction them. Additionally, we are in Iraq at the behest of the Iraqi government and likely to be gone completely bar embassy staff and a handful of marines and private contractors to protect them in the next year.
Another bold, unsubstantiated assertion.
The only people blowing themselves up are Islamic fundamentalists. Some argue Islam is not a religion as it encompasses a complete poltical system within it. Some people argue that Islamic fundamentalists are not “real Muslims.” Regardless, you said “religion” not one particular religion - if you can call it that.
That they tick a box on the census form that says “I identify myself as: A - Catholic” perhaps? So you think the drug cartel massacres and the military and political violence in Mexico and Columbia have been religiously inspired? Is that what you’re saying? If not, what is your point?
Perhaps they are “God heads” because they believe it will look good at their parole hearing? Or am I being too cynical? Again, are you claiming that a significant proportion of violent incarcerated felons committed their crimes from a religious motivation?
Is it? A wikipedia entry on wars involving Sweden is weird? If you say so.
Um…
Oh so that’s where you’re going. Let me see if I’ve got this straight: Because Sweden hasn’t been “involved” in any wars since 1814[*] and because a recent Gallup poll suggests they have lots of atheists, therefore atheism has CURED their lust for war? Is that it?
A wikipedia entry on the arab Israeli conflict? Islamic fundamentalists again. The Jews have been trying to make peace right? Or are you one of those dudes who lives in moral bizarro world or something?
Islamists and pan-Arab nationalists. Israel does not “love to fight.”
Unsubstantiated? Really? Have you ever heard of an area of the world called the middle east? I guess it is pretty easy to forget those guys since we have been at war with them for ten years now.
[/quote]
Actually we have been at war with Iran since 1979 however it’s one sided. They wage war against us, we sanction them. Additionally, we are in Iraq at the behest of the Iraqi government and likely to be gone completely bar embassy staff and a handful of marines and private contractors to protect them in the next year.
Another bold, unsubstantiated assertion.
The only people blowing themselves up are Islamic fundamentalists. Some argue Islam is not a religion as it encompasses a complete poltical system within it. Some people argue that Islamic fundamentalists are not “real Muslims.” Regardless, you said “religion” not one particular religion - if you can call it that.
That they tick a box on the census form that says “I identify myself as: A - Catholic” perhaps? So you think the drug cartel massacres and the military and political violence in Mexico and Columbia have been religiously inspired? Is that what you’re saying? If not, what is your point?
Perhaps they are “God heads” because they believe it will look good at their parole hearing? Or am I being too cynical? Again, are you claiming that a significant proportion of violent incarcerated felons committed their crimes from a religious motivation?
Is it? A wikipedia entry on wars involving Sweden is weird? If you say so.
Um…
Oh so that’s where you’re going. Let me see if I’ve got this straight: Because Sweden hasn’t been “involved” in any wars since 1814[*] and because a recent Gallup poll suggests they have lots of atheists, therefore atheism has CURED their lust for war? Is that it?
A wikipedia entry on the arab Israeli conflict? Islamic fundamentalists again. The Jews have been trying to make peace right? Or are you one of those dudes who lives in moral bizarro world or something?
Islamists and pan-Arab nationalists. Israel does not “love to fight.”
See above where I demolish your argument.[/quote]
You have definetly demolished my arguments, good job. The fact remains that religious wars are still being fought and will continue to be fought until mankind is advanced enough to abandon the falacies that help cause them.
Can you name another cause of war aside from the 3 that I have stated?
How’s this for a bold claim: god does not exist. Sorry.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
War has been around since human civilization began. It has always been ugly, inhumane and despicable.
The USA is part of human civilization. It has waged war throughout its past and it will continue to do so. However, in the annals of history no country, and I mean no fucking country in history bar none, has done more when it comes to waging war “with a conscience” and to avoid as much senseless depraved killing as possible.
If anyone wishes to dispute this please come armed with examples of countries who have waged wars humanely. Or more humanely.[/quote]
It is not about waging a more humane war! Are you kidding me?
Some people can be violent but most are not.
Sending an entire military off to some foreign country because of the acts of a few people does not solve problems. It creates new ones.
Unintended consequences, ya know?
[/quote]
When foreign governments commit acts of aggression against the US, such as by sponsoring terrorism, it is proper to respond militarily. The US has vital economic interests in certain regions and it is proper for us to defend them. Ron Paul’s foreign policy of blaming America for everything is wrong.
Can you name another cause of war aside from the 3 that I have stated?
[/quote]
I don’t agree that religion per se has been the cause of wars. People have used their own positions of power within the church to wage war. That’s not the same thing. The cause of ALL human conflict can be found in HUMAN NATURE. Human nature never changes. We will always have war; religion or no religion.
I never said He did exist. You’re making assumptions.