Ok got it. So your saying wsit s couple months on the hcg dose before deciding if the side effects remain. Like any other T change?
Well I was more referring to AI changes but I think any protocol change needs time to work fully.
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Right
It is so important to let protocols settle before testing and changing. I’ve actually wait 12 weeks before making a single change. Let alone adding in other drugs. Give your body a chance guys.
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just curious why are labs ordered 6 weeks out from beginning trt if it could take 6 months for my blood levels to … well level out? not saying i dont believe you - just curious to the logic. Is this just to gauge the trajectory?
Whenever to take drugs or hormones, it take 6 weeks for levels to stabilize in the blood. That’s why we do labs at 6 weeks. It will take longer for you to feel those levels stabilize, I feel the full effects between weeks 7-8.
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The testasterone levels out and reaches peek absorption at around 6 weeks. This way you know what your dosage does for you. Before that you don’t get a clear picture.
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It’s all based on half life of the particular compound and dosage frequency. That’s what dictates when you reach steady state.
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^^^See 3 answers above. 
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test cyp 40 mg x3 a week and now hcg 100 iu x 3 a week … 120 and 300
i checked out a plot graph on a website becasue i am a nerd and wanted to see a graphic representation of how quickly blood levels are effected / saturated.
the site i checked out showed levels “plateau-ing out” around day 17 (give or take) and if i recall correctly the line levels around day 23 ish … and at a test-blood level around 13 mg i think? anyway, i found it interesting that the levels on the graph show this yet most people who know a lot more than me (like in this chat) tell me i will need to wait until week 7-8 to feel it …
yep! looked just like that!
So i would assume even tho the blood levels are up and steady fairly early on, it must take your body a month or so longer to “absorb” and utilize everything? which would translate into feeling the effetcs?
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I got 36 days.
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Precisely. If you look at your graph closely it’s over 30 days before actual steady state is achieved. The graph below represents a 3.5 day injection protocol that many use. The time to steady state is closer to 42 days. Like I said before it’s all half life and injection frequencies. For anyone to say “this number” is the only number is just not looking at the big picture. The statements made are based on their personal protocols.
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So below represents the same 120 mg per week but with Propionate on a daily injection schedule. Less than 2 weeks to steady state. See the difference that half life and injection frequency can make?
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What you guys aren’t factoring in is that elimination for drugs also changes daily based on the liver. The liver isn’t static and elimination of drugs depends on the function and loading on the liver.
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can you elaborate on this? Are you saying the plots are one dimensional and dont take into account the body metabolizing the T?
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Yes varies
I would think we also want to keep in mind that “Testosterone” isn’t the only thing “stabilizing or adjusting” during these periods of time. It may or may not take just as long or longer for other things like E2 and all the other shit involved in this process to reach their peak optimal levels for that dosage schedule. I myself wouldn’t just factor Testosterone alone in that determination.
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As stupid as this sounds, it’s really about how you feel. You have to be very systematic about the approach and make sure you’re keeping track/logging exactly what you feel versus what the tests are saying.
For instance, if you’re taking a good dose of testosterone (100mg+ per week) while also taking an AI like Anastrozole, getting pretty high range numbers on blood tests but feeling chronic fatigue, loss of desire of life, possibly suicidal thoughts, penis and genitals that feel like they are invisible to you and don’t work at all you just might have crashed E2. Most likely due to either to high of a dose of AI or you’re simply to sensitive to them.
If you find yourself feeling like hmm, I feel pretty normal, maybe a slight hint of tiredness (might just be lack of getting a good 7-9 hours of sleep), not having a raging sexual desire but noticing that when you see a hot woman or smell her you get erected nicely, or a good strong erection from cuddling up against your woman, while noticing that you seem to cry a little easier at movies or sad stories etc. you are probably sitting on the high side. It feels much better to be here than crashed by no comparison. How high you are though “might” be important as extremely high E2 number “might” have a negative effect on you.
You have to adjust your doses of Testosterone during a 6-8 week period (I am thinking of going 10-12 weeks as long as I don’t feel like horrible shit or suicidal) to see where your body finally settles in. You might start out good for a few weeks then feel like shit after then 5-6th week. You might also have the opposite effect, feel horrible for 4-5 weeks then suddenly fall into place in weeks 6-8. Then you just adjust accordingly with your doctors participation.
Then there’s the link between your total SHBG and your free test (which appears to be super important to get right). Your total SHBG might be a helpful indicator of an optimal injection frequency although I am not sure that can be considered an absolute fact/science. I have chosen to increase frequency of injection and no longer crash ever. That protocol only took 2-3 weeks to eliminate all my crashes and anxiety almost 100%. Yes, I inject many times a week now, but I feel an absolute positive difference regardless of what science might say. We will see how that goes long term though. Additionally, this smaller dose/higher frequency has worked for me to lower my E2 for the moment. Again, we will see long term as I increase dosage sizes.
My experience and understanding is your sweet spot is somewhere in a combination of E2 levels and SHBG/Free Test levels more so than your “total testosterone number” (assuming you are doing all other things right such as diet, exercise, vitamin D levels etc.). I have seen some theorized formulas and percentages of E2 and Free testosterone stating that even if your E2 is “higher than doctor might like”, if it’s only 2-3 times the value of your Free Testosterone, you just might be in a perfect place. That may not be the case if you’re taking massive body builder level doses. There are so many variables and “numbers” in getting there, but it seems that once people get dialed in there is a nice correlation between those stated numbers, given all else is in place.
Read, study, double check yourself, question your doctor, take what we say here as personal experiences more than scientific evidence. Take all of that and “take your time and be safe” and refrain from making enormous frequent changes to your protocols. Focus on one thing at a time and then be patient. Very patient. In the end, do whatever makes you feel great.
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