I get what everyone is saying here and I agree with @physioLojik on this matter, however personal experiences have shown it is not quite that simple.
I used AS for around 15 years and during that time there were some periods where when I let things ‘adjust’ themselves I was able to use quite considerable doses of test with little/no ai. HOWEVER, at some point in my time I did get some gland growth, possibly from one of the 19nors, or possibly even assisted by hgh (yes that can exacerbate things too guys in the right circumstances), either way I now pretty much currently have to use some ai on my trt dose of 250 sust e8d. I tried to go without and let things sort themselves out but I got too sore and gland started to grow slightly so I have had to jump on .25 on inj day and .125 on day 4.
I may be able to lower this again shortly but I just want to get the current issue sorted first.
Now I am very experienced with AS at much higher doses than trt. I am also not out of shape (granted not quite back to beach bod yet after 2+ years with the test of a 90 year old) but certainly won’t be long before I have my abbs out again. At that point I MAY be able to lower that ai further or even try dropping it but my point is that while I believe physio is right here I can also sympathise with system (although I do think he is yo-yo ing things a bit to easily and should give things a bit more time to settle).
Studies show young men in their early teens to twenties have low estrodiol. Shouldn’t we be trying to mimic that?
I’m going to try eod shots at 30mg per shot. Anytime I try anything over 50mg per shot e3d I can’t sleep. It’s gotta be e2 related, which is generally around 28 or so.
Point is, I think I do better w low e2. Some may do better w higher. In reality, there isn’t a right or wrong way to administer trt. Both Ks man and physio are correct in what they’re saying, but only as applied to the specific person their protocol works on.
Clearly that MUST be E2 related, totally, yup, definately. No way it could BE ANNNYYYTTTHHING else. Not possibly, I don’t know CNS stimulation or the fact that androgens are known for causing insomnia in some individuals. Ever heard of Trensomnia, given its a totally different league but everyone is different.
Sex drive is libido, how much do you think about sex, masturbate, get horny etc. For instance my sex drive is in the shitter right now :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
A bit late now but that’s six burns in one post, that’s a sextuple burn… fuckin awesome
Soz mate I didn’t mean to take an aggressive attitude, I was intending to be funny , not everyone gets my sense of humour.
And yes, some people do require AI’s, however those are typically obese people (who wouldn’t need to AI had they dropped the weight, or people with trashed livers). However some people may just require AI’s there’s always people who require different things.
You said it “must be e2 related”. Did you get bloodwork when you cant sleep? Do you actually know what your e2 levels are/have been? What is your body fat %? Is your liver functioning properly?
I listed above, that when I push anything over 50mg e3d I start to get high estrogen sides. At that protocol, my TT is 885, E2 around 27 sensitive, SHBG 23 and FT 178 (35-155). These numbers look good, but I feel nothing from TRT. I’m in amazing shape at 40. 190 pounds, bf roughly 8%.
My thoughts are to switch to EOD, which I’m going to try. Granted SHBG isn’t too low, but still a little lowish. FT is high. Some people feel nite/day difference with EOD protocols with similar ranges of what I’m showing.
Damn our numbers are almost identical and I feel great. 27 ain’t even close to being high. I dont know brother. I hope you find something that work because with numbers like that you should be feeling like conan the barbarian. Good luck.
The only time I actually felt some sort of aggressive libido was at a protocol of 300mg e2weeks. It was for a day or two right before my next shot. All I can think of is that perhaps test is low and e2 is low right then.
I feel like TRT is a giant game of crack the code.
Interesting @roscoe88. I’m on the higher end of SHBG and will probably try eod at some point. When I used to cycle AAS one of my favourites was 100mg prop eod, grew like a weed on that but more importantly for trt I felt great on it.
I don’t know your history but have you tried running your T at a higher average? If 300 pushed you into a higher range and you responded libido wise then why not try like 200mg a week and see how you feel? Doctors specializing in this field (Doctor’s John Crisler, Merrill Matschke, Keith Nichols, Jim Meehan, and Dr Robert Kominiarek) would never advocate staying at a certain number to stay in “range”. They advocate treating the patient.
This was long after my bodybuilding had come to an end and I just used to do 1/2 cycles per year to supplement my rugby so it was just the prop. By the end of my time cycling I couldn’t be bothered with all the fancy compounds which tended to increase my sides too much, and orals just used to kill my appetite too much so I kept it very simple.
But my point was that despite being fairly high SHBG I know I felt good on an eod schedule so that may work for Roscoe. And indeed I may try it at some point. Although my 250 e8d is working pretty well anyway atm.
