I was just doing some digging and there is a definite connection between e2 and serotonin. Vitamin D and serotonin as well. The article I read was geared more towards post menopausal women but the mechanism is the same. Post menopausal women have non existent e2 which in turn crashes their serotonin levels resulting in mood disorders. E2 nurtures serotonin. Vitamin D is required to synthesize serotonin. Very interesting.
Wow ok. Thanks for the follow up I was about to put my google hat on.
Yet another reason to not de stabilize your estrogen levels … needs extreme care.
Yes sir. I had no idea and I’ve done plenty to destabilize my e2. I always seem to bounce back very quickly though so I dont know. Maybe my e2 was crashed out so long before trt that I dont know what normal feels like anymore. Weird. I dont know the answer.
Ya I had hot flashes nightly for 2 years. Come to find out it’s a low T side effect. I wonder if that’s why I have so many issues sleeping and my moods always fucked. I swear I try to smile… they say force your face to smile and your mind will follow, but it doesn’t work. Shit f, damnit; blah, shit; fukkkkk… lolll
@overdrive_special thanks man. I really appreciate the kind words and your post.
@alldayeveryday very early on when I started posting actively against the ksman bs one of the arguments that I laid out was the importance of estrogen in regards to serotonin. People get so entrenched in their beliefs that they do not Want to budge.
In retrospect I realize I heard this before. I will openly admit that it was over my head. I do recall reading those comments though I just didnt understand. Slowly but surely I am learning.
I’ve been posting about serotonin and it’s relation to e2 for weeks now.
Increase e2 means increase serotonin.
That’s why when I said, in response to “it’s not hormones, it’s neurotransmitters” that it certainly is hormones is bc they influence neurotransmittion.
It takes time to change the opinion of the masses. People such as myself tend to be engrained with regard to opinions unless scientific literature is released on said topic disregarding previous thought, and even then said paper must be replicated a myriad of times before I give it the time of day.
That being said the notion of using aromatase inhibitors or a TSH above 1 indicating hypothyroidism was never backed by literature, hence why people should have been very skeptical from the start about anyone recommending such protocals (I recall KSMAN saying anyone with a TSH above 1 needed iodized salt… Unreal24278 doesn’t have a goiter, symptoms of hypothyroidism but he does speak about himself in the 3rd person sometimes, the notion of telling everyone to eat iodized salt by the tablespoon (I’m exaggerating obviously) or to take 1mg of adex per 100mg test has the potential to cause a lot of harm, esp when you’re making a blanket statement stating that everything requires X when treatment needs to be individually tailored to individual needs.
I also recall everyone being told to jump straight onto TRT without finding the root cause, I wonder how many preventable cases of lifelong testosterone replacement could’ve been stopped had different advice been dispensed?
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Recall. I got this changed in the about trt category…just saying. Physio helped and a poll that we wanted it changed. But I no longer point people to the about trt category. It has man wrongs in there…by ksman
This used to have the 1mg ai per 100 mg test.
That protocol was given to all newbies in this forum including me when I knew Jack. That ai 1mg per 100 fucked up many of us. Simple.
I dont doubt you one bit. I’m sure you said. I probably read it. If somebody starts talking about neurotransmitters your gonna get a blank stare from me. Above my pay scale. I read a really good article last night and it highlighted the relationship between e2 and serotonin as well as giving real world examples of how it manifest in dysfunction. It was eye opening to say the least. Very interesting topic I plan to dive into more. At the end of the day I think the moral of the story is dont crash your freakin estrogen dummy (I’m the dummy so dont nobody get butt hurt about that).
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I hope this link works as this really explains the relationship in detail.
Recommends NO AI and daily injections
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Systemlord for the win.
Just seems so crazy injecting daily. I guess diabetics do it.
Remember individual doctors have different opinions. Which opinion you decide to agree with is up to individual interpretation of what they believe is best for them. I’m sure there’s still docs prescribing long term benzodiazepine therapy for insomnia, is it the correct treatment? In my opinion, certainly not, Benzos are nasty drugs and when used they should be used acutely, however others will disagree with me. Opiates on the other hand, I firmly believe a select FEW require them for round the clock pain management, esp those with cancer pain or chronic debillitating pain/ structural abnormalities that cause significant discomfort, however they should always be a last resort as the consequences of opiate ABUSE can be devastating (I’ve observed it destroy lives)
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I’ve always been in the thought that a lower e2 level makes more sense. Men, outside of trt and anabolic don’t produce the levels of e2 some
On this board tout.
Daily injections would yield a lower amount. I may switch to something like 10mg daily sub q.
@systemlord: you did daily. Thoughts?
Idk about that, get a bunch of adolescents and test their E2 and T (healthy, nonobese adolescents in their prime) you’ll probably get a lot of E2’s in the 20’s 30s and 40s (with associated fairly high test)
The issue I have with daily is that unless you are a genetic anomaly and excrete longer estered testosterone ridiculously fast, the HL of test Cyp is too long for ED injections to have much clinical significance as the fluctuations in daily hormonal status are so minimal based on HL. However if ED shots of long estered test works for you then no harm is done aside from prolonged build up of scar tissue from ED IM shots
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But you’re wrong about the half life thing. After awhile, each day you’re releasing a steady small amount of test and the half life becomes somewhat irrelevant.
It becomes a steady state with the same small amount being uncleved daily.
If done correctly it would be like a daily trickle effect of test.
No actually @unreal24278 is right. Give or take a few outliers, test c for example has an 8 day half life - Unless you are a ridiculous genetic anomaly that number is about right. So let’s say you injext 10mg on day one. On day two you inject 10 more. Now you have the first 10mg which has barley degraded and you have the second 10mg. On day three you do the same etc etc etc. injection frequency doesn’t alter the medication half life. It just provides more raw materials floating around.
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Disagree.
After awhile it becomes irrelevant. Think about it. A small amount becomes uncleved daily as it was already thru it’s half life etx.
Idk. Agree to disagree.