Out of context, but this.
Yah that’s a big part of the study. 100% on point. Natural is best.
Hard to read all 502 replies but jeez this thread scares me.
I take hcg twice a week and estrogen blockers every day. Seems like there’s so much confusion. All I wanted to do was get my
Test levels higher (was at 15). It’s been three months and I feel unreal right now (test went to 39. Making sick gains in the gym. Not tired at work when I am night shift) but I am wondering if it’s just easier to stop all together before I end up screwing up body (I don’t wanna be on hcg my whole life).
I see my doc Wednesday and I’ll ask for some e2 checks.
hey Physio, Am i on that last resort condition ?
update: i stoped aromasin, and after 2 weeks the only simptom that came back was the emocional side effect of E2 start again. today i take a quarter aromasin, will do that every 3 days. edit: im 100kg.
What do you use and at what dose?
How’s lifestyle, diet and hepatic function.
In the long scheme of things 2 weeks isn’t long enough to verify whether you’d be better off without an AI. You’re body is adjusting to a new stimulus, for all neurotransmitters, downstream hormones, conversion pathways etc to be hunky dory wait at least 6 wks, potentially more. However if it’s really THAT bad and you can’t take it then do whatever you feel is best I guess. Many times these issues aren’t hormonal at all and are more linked to mental health (however I’m not you, I don’t know what it feels like to be you thus I can’t judge)
Be safe, be smart yeet. Placebo can be a powerful enemy, however it may not be placebo, I don’t know. Do what works for you so long as it’s safe and effective in the long run
With diet, white button mushrooms contain phytochemicals that have anti aromatase activity. Just food for thought (PUNNY)
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So are you on TRT or just HCG, HCG isn’t a viable long term solution, and when you come off you’ll be quite shut down (LH mimicking, shuts down LH). Leydig receptor downregulation also appears to be a legitimate concern with long term HCG use. If I ever come off in an attempt to conceive (that’s assuming I find a woman whom I want to raise a child with) and I’m not infertile (which there’s a GOOD chance I was prior to TRT) I’ll use it briefly to help my testicle sacks regain the wonderful process of spermatogenesis (although now that I think about it i’d rather just use injectable FSH… Or a combination of FSH/LH), I think I’d stay away from serms.
AI on HCG won’t do shit, if on TRT AI ED is fucking madness, how’s you’re lipids, get them checked, you probably won’t be happy with you’re HDL. Do you really NEED that much AI… Or any AI at all? I’ve used doses of up to 250mg/wk and never even thought about an AI let alone needed one. I originally was brainwashed into the thought that an AI was a thing many people needed (however I was always skeptical, I believe if you look at even my oldest posts I mentioned how reluctant I was to ever take an AI).
Hcg is 1.0cc/ml twice a weekBlockers are ralaxofine hcl 60mg.
60mg seems super high considering u guys are saying 1mg a week is too much.
A lot of ppl in my city with lower end test are getting the same “treatment” from this guy
Reloxifene? That is not an aromatase inhibitor. It is a SERM used in postmenopausal women to prevent osteoporosis and reduce the risk of breast cancer. I’m not sure about its use in men, but that dose is the dose for women. I’ll have to do a little digging, maybe you should too.
It can be troubling when there appears to be a one size fits all approach.
Interesting. I thought they were estrogen blockers. He basically said it would stop me from getting tits.
I am not sure the exact dosages all of his other clients get but basically he sells it as a way to “naturally” treat low test that won’t mess with you’re real test production when you stop taking it. When you stop, it goes back to the level it was before.
So far it’s working. And I am hitting prs in the gym almost every day. Going to bench 270 5x5 tomorrow.
It just seems like maybe there are too many unknowns and I am scared to screw myself up even worse. I’ll stay on it a bit longer as the wife and I are trying to have a baby and this coincidently will help that. I am trying to do as much research as I can in the meantime (I have a low sperm count).
Yea it’ll stop estrogen from binding to receptors in tissues sensitive with high amounts of ER . So it’ll attach to the ER in breast tissue and via competitive inhibition I believe estrogen won’t be able to bind to the already saturated ER in breast tissue. I could be slightly off though
Interesting. So it’s like a half assed ai. Which is kind of good if your an anti ai guy?
AI either blocks conversion of test to estrogen or binds to and kills the aromatase enzyme. Serms don’t actually diminish the production of estrogen, there are other concerns related to long term use of SERMS, however I’d vastly prefer them over an AI long term, esp when I think about long term cardiovascular risk
Well this def makes me feel
Better and makes me think maybe my doctor has more of a grasp on this than I thought.
My work pays for everything I get though him. I see him later this week and I’ll ask for a full gauntlet of bloodwork and post the results here.
“there are other concerns related to long term use of SERMS”
It is still a drug, with sides, treating a probable non-issue.
I may be an outlier here but I still support AIs over a Serm. Either way you are blocking something (the AI stops the conversion to E2 while the Serm blocks the receptors (especially in the nipple). I hated being on Serms. I have no issues with taking .5 Arimidex weekly. My lipids and libido are spot on. I appreciate the new insight and research into letting E2 achieve its own level and that there is no harm for this but personally, I’m keeping mine <40 for now.
But I mean , isn’t there potential side effects to all this stuff we re doing? Trt, hcg, ai, serms. It’s never going to be perfect.
First of all, let me thank you for all the information you offer. It is a shame that some people on this forum doubt you being a physician. It’s even worse that they don’t appreciate your expertise of not only being an endocrinologist as well as a bodybuilder.
I’m a physician myself and unfortunately haven fallen for some of the " bro science" preached by “experts”. I’m much older than most of the people on her being past the big 6, and was doing well on a small amount ( 60 mg) per week of test with 0.5 of Arimidex. About a year into things I started to have insomnia which from what I read everywhere was from “high estrogen”. So I took an extra dose of AI and of course crashed my E2 to 10. I switched to sub Q q 3.5 days and stopped the AI, but three weeks later when my sensitive E 2 was 42, went right back on. Since then, I have done exactly what you have warned against, chasing my tail so to speak and now having stopped DHEA and Pregnenolone which did little for my anxiety, and I crashed again. It never occurred to me the possible neurophysiologic effects of not only crashing my estrogen but then playing around with two other neurohormones
Finally I decided to start thinking like a physician. My symptoms had evolved to sweaty hands, hot flashes and mood swings. Wow sounds a lot like “menopause”! Finally it hit me that the root of this evil was the Arimidex. Went on the net and found that Dr. Crisler before his death changed his tune on AI’s, and then through another thread found you. Decided I will stop the AI continue on bid subc and leave things alone for awhile. Hopefully my anxiety and insomnia will go away, but I am aware that just because my estrogen level may normalize it will take time to repair the damage that’s been done to my serotonin and dopamine pathways.
Please continue to help everyone out and hopefully they will realize how serious it is to try and fck with multiple hormone pathways.
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Awesome post and I hope you have a speedy recovery.
I’m interested in what you said here about damage to your serotonin and dopamine pathways… how would one damage these pathways? Through crashed e2? Your supplements? Just curious as I havent seen this verbiage in relation to e2. Only deca and tren use.
I agree thank you. I also noticed the comment about pathways and seratonin. I find this very interesting and would love to hear more.