This thread at times bothers me. The answer that a lot of you guys jump to is more drugs to combat drug side effects (AI, Dopamine agonist, HCG for fucking vanity sake (I don’t want to lose testicle size blah blah). This is the whole problem - you’re treating symptoms. Treat the cause. Lower the dosage of test. Lower your body fat. You guys act like these drugs are innocuous. They aren’t. They cause massive downstream effects. Oh for instance cabergoline causes neurological changes that could be permanent. You think messing with your dopamine doesn’t have side effects?
And whoever said no street drugs but used deca - you realize deca alters your neurological condition for 6x as long as you used it?
You guys are going to continue chasing your tails. You feel a way, you add a drug, it can take months to change conditions, then you alter more to counteract the side effects of the last drug.
Use one drug.
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I’m with you and totally understand. That’s why I stayed off depressants and andiety meds. Looked for the cause and here we are.
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@enackers antidepressants are the same way. People are beginning to get wise to the idea that fucking with your neurotransmitters is a terrible idea.
Fix your diet. Remove GMO. Remove allergens. Train smart. Sleep well. Rinse and repeat.
For instance - insomnia is now considered a health epidemic in the United States. News flash - insomnia isn’t a condition - it’s a symptom of other issues. Fix those damn issues first.
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Yup I agree. Like adhd ten years ago.
Problem is the medical industry. They are the ones who treat symptoms instead of getting to the root of a problem. Some are but most jsut prescribe. However we are adults and we should know better. Instead we take what they give without asking questions.
I had my gall bladder taken out because I couldn’t find anyone who would use other avanues to rid me of the stones. Truly sad.
@enackers true story - giving amphetamine to children works because it actually turns off their spontaneity. No one was really designed to sit in a classroom as a child - we were taught in the fields and industries by our parents for generations. So a kid does what a kid does - he gets excited and daydreams and can’t focus so what do we do?! Give him amphetamine that actually curbs his ability to be spontaneous and makes him totally docile and also alters his brain chemistry. Gee why would we ever think to look at his diet his allergies etc.
I reach for my Rx pad very rarely. Diet first, lifestyle next, drugs last.
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I know it’s mind boggling. Some kids are calm some kids are not. This is how we are wired.
Maybe that kid who can’t sit is gonna make one hell of a basketball player or musician. Instead they want you to conform into a normal range… sometimes I wonder if people use common sense or follow their heart… I have no clue how I could prescribe little children medications based on “he can’t stop playing”:.: I might reach over the desk and slap the shit out of their parents lmao…
Anyways thanks man. Your presence here is awesome. Have a great Sunday… it’s warm here In HOUSTON. Mid January 
Reading this I am very happy that I never gave my son’s ADHD meds. They are normal! Schools sometime make you think you child is not normal. They get extra help in school and do average work. Better then giving them meds in my book…
The only thing my children take is a mutli vit from brand smarty pants. I like this one cause it has some fish oil in there.
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Hell yes!!
When my oldest son went to kindergarten, the first day they told us that he needed to be tested for ADHD. We pulled him out of school and homeschooled both of our kids. They don’t need fucking drugs! They need guidance from people who can engage them and encourage them to learn. Sadly, sometimes this factory assembly line public school bullshit just doesn’t cut it. No way I was putting my kids on drugs. We did what we had to do and now…
My oldest son works at the same company I do, and has accomplished in two years what some of the other guys that have been there for 10 still can’t do! I get comments all the time in how smart my boys are and how well mannered they are. They turned out just fine. Now there were some hard parts to deal with, but we made it through.
I think that drugs appeal to parents just as much as it does to the school systems. Most parents don’t want to have to deal with a rambunctious strong willed child. To them I say, if you love them then deal with it. Don’t cop out. If that’s your mentality, then maybe you should have thought twice about having kids in the first place!
Now, just so someone doesn’t take this as me being closed minded…there may be a place for some scenarios where drugs will help tremendously. Diabetes…something like that, but because your kid acts like a kid and gets a little off track?? I’m sorry I can’t get on board with that.
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@bmbrady77 we have three kids. Two girls and a new boy. We don’t ever give them devices to babysit them. My girls read books. Remember those bound containers of knowledge we used to use??? And right. I script drugs when people need drugs. Most people don’t.
@charlie12 I agree with you guys. It’s learning how to work with your children.
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Congrats brother! You made me smile there! When my oldest wanted a computer when he was 12, I went to spare parts box (I am a programmer so I have tons of that kind of shit lying around) and got every individual part that he needed. Told him if he wanted one he would have to build it! Lol
Believe it or not he did!!! Lol
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@bmbrady77 amazing!!! I love that. I am even softer than my wife haha. She’s from India (Also a physician) and is constantly blown away at parenting here and how people basically just appease their children to make life easier on themselves. She’s a dermatologist and won’t script meds for skin without food logs etc. we take this shit really seriously.
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Funny I told my brother to do that. Don’t give him an Xbox. Tell him to build a computer. Learn a os and that will help… not a turn on and shoot game.
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We have another ksman.
You didn’t read my posts, did you?
Just to summarise:
- I’ve been on testosterone alone for months.
- You talk about vanity and Deca, knowing it’s effect on the brain and you are still on it. For what?
- I clearly stated I hate HCG but I have to take it in order to keep fertility and it’s part of a TRT protocol Dr. Shippen, Dr. Crisler and Dr. Saya all agree on and explained the benefit of. Doctors with a huge experience and credentials. Should we trust an anonymous user on a forum more?
- My fears on cabergoline are the same you expressed, reason why I stopped it for now even if adviced my doctors to take it.
- My FT is at 25, a level Dr. Saya is really happy with. Why should I lower it the dose of T?
- My BF is at 11%, some period of the years 10%. I don’t compete, so I don’t feel the urge to go on a single digit BF, unless you are claiming that everyone on TRT should be on a single digit BF percentage in order to have good E2 levels?
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@appassionato
First off, I’m an actual physician unlike ksman. Several forum members have met me in real life and have vouched for me.
Second - the astounding amount of evidence out in endocrinology now counteracts the old logic of needing an AI (hence even Crisler changing his tune). Unlike the way they practice medicine, I don’t get paid scripting more drugs.
Why not use HCG when trying to conceive so it makes sense as opposed to getting leydig desensitization by continual usage?
You should lower your test dosage if you are feeling unwell, all things else being equal. I’ve posted numerous studies and videos discussing this. Bottom line you do what you feel is best. Most people do to their own detriment. I end up picking up the pieces for them after years of bad treatment.
@unreal24278 @NH_Watts @studhammer haha apparently I’m ksman now.
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I would expect nothing less if you have two girls. I don’t know from experience because I just have two boys, but I’ve got friends who have little girls and they tell me that their girls will melt their hearts!
Since I had two boys, I had the opposite side of the spectrum. When my youngest was born, we were going to do the whole “spiritual” thing and name him whatever the first thought was when he came out. You know how some people say, “she’s an angel!” And then they name their kid Angel. Or “hallelujah” and then name their kid Halle. I’m glad we didn’t go through with it because he would have had a very hard time in his life if he had to deal with being named “Vasectomy”! Lol
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One thing in common with all of those kids the they though needed drugs, boys. They said the same about my boy, family members too, GET FUCKED! He finally got the right teacher in 3rd grade that knew how to channel energy and effectively teach boys. Made all the difference.
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I took amphetamines as a child (I believe lisdexamfetamine, dexmethylphenidate and a few others were trialled). They were horrible, horrible drugs.
- couldn’t eat (dropped down to 35 KILOGRAMS!!!)
- emotionally withdrawn
- development of tics
The educational system caters to the masses, anyone who deviates SLIGHTLY from the expected norm is now pumped full of drugs 
rather than finding a learning approach that works for said child
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That’s awesome bro that you found that resource. We never could, that’s why we just did it ourselves. A lot of people nowadays may not have that option. It’s an expensive world we live in and sadly sometimes it takes two incomes to make it. We were fortunate that we were able to scale our lives down to make it on just my income, and my wife could be at home with our kids. That’s not a very common scenario nowadays though.
And they say we live in a free society…
My wife read about this post pregnancy and decided on a midwife vs hospitalized birth. We found kids have less issues when the mother is not pumped full of drugs and the child is held by the mother immediately… the cord is also left intact for a while … vs the hospital pumps the woman up and cuts the cord + child is taken for a short period… they did studies and showed children with midwife births had less rates of sickness, mental issues, development issues and so forth… it’s amazing how small changes in how we operate can have a huge impact on our children’s lives.
We were able to do that as well through some sacrifice and hard work so my wife can be home for them when they get home and support them then. Mine are 13, 11, and 8 so schedules are still crazy and emotional growth, as well as physical (my 11 year old son wears mens 10 shoes), is coming at us hard and fast. We are very fortunate for our ability to have made that choice. We never considered homeschooling but it was never off the table if that makes sense.
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