Flax and Estrogen/Gyno

I’ve always been a big fan of flax. I mix some flax meal in with my night time yogurt and my middle of the night protein shake. Last week at the store I noticed something on a package of flax meal. It said, “helps maintain healthy estrogen levels.”

It got me curious as to exactly how flax might affect estrogen. So, I did a google search and came away more confused. Some sources say that the lignans in flax can help “flush out” excess estrogen. This would be great for us bodybuilders, as it would help prevent gyno.

Many doctors recommend that their cancer patients take a flax supplement, as the lignans have actually been shown to reduce the size of tumors in some cases where the cells are hormone sensitive. Could flax meal possibly be used as part of a treatment for existing gyno?

However, other articles mention flax meal in the same vein as soy, which we all know to be the evil protein that can cause bitch tits and sissy fits. That is, the lignans mimic estrogen, and consuming flax is actually like dosing with exogenous estrogen. A bad thing if we’re trying to remain bitch titless.

So, I thought I’d throw this little query to the minds here at T-Nation and see what happens.

[quote]gerby wrote:
However, other articles mention flax meal in the same vein as soy, which we all know to be the evil protein that can cause bitch tits and sissy fits. That is, the lignans mimic estrogen, and consuming flax is actually like dosing with exogenous estrogen. A bad thing if we’re trying to remain bitch titless.[/quote]

Admittedly, this isn’t a topic I’ve really read anything about. I just wanted to say that, in my experience, at least, I have never seen, nor heard of, anyone getting bitch tits or sissy fits from a little bit of soy or flax in their diet.

At least, not in articles that aren’t plugging Rez-V or the like.

never heard of this, so i did a quick google for flax and estrogen. And the first hit was titled “Flax: Nature’s Natural Estrogen Replacement Therapy”

lol so i dunno, maybe more reading is required.
They contain phytoestrogen and according to wikipedia "Phytoestrogens are chemicals produced by plants that act like estrogens in animal cells and bodies. " Phytoestrogen - Wikipedia

and from the same page it lists flax as the first source from food “flax seed contains the highest total phytoestrogen content followed by soy bean and tofu.”

Under health risks it lists “Phytoestrogens have the same effect as normal estrogens and in high quantity are known to cause gynecomastia…”

I’d like to hear from ppl who are smarter then me about this…

Yeah but HOW MUCH do you have to consume before you get the effects.

Consuming abnormal quantities of anything can cause unwanted effects.

Perhaps it works like Clomid? If it acts as a “weaker” version of estrogen, and occupies receptor space that would normally be occupied by “full strength” estrogen it could actually have a positive impact for bodybuilders.

I’m not sure how flax works, but it sounds like it could work like Clomid does.

[quote]Schmazz wrote:
Perhaps it works like Clomid? If it acts as a “weaker” version of estrogen, and occupies receptor space that would normally be occupied by “full strength” estrogen it could actually have a positive impact for bodybuilders.

I’m not sure how flax works, but it sounds like it could work like Clomid does.[/quote]

This is a good question and gets to the heart of the debate. Let’s get a few undisputed things out into the open here:

First, it is clear that flax contains phytoestrogens. In fact, as stated already, flax contains the most phytoestrogens of any other substance on the planet. The question is whether those phytoestrogens can help or hurt people who are seeking to maximize their androgenic hormone profiles as I assume we all do.

Second, it is not sufficient to say that flax has estrogenic properties because there are really different forms of estrogen. Whereas testosterone is testosterone, estrogen has many different forms (e.g., esterone, estradiol, etc.). These forms of estrogen vary in characteristics and potency. But even within these forms, it appears that different types also have different characteristics.

For example, even among estradiol–widely regarded as a very potent form of estrogen–there are different types. The 2-hydroxy types of estradiol are supposed to be very weak estrogens that have anti-cancer properties. In contrast, the 16-hydroxy types of estradiol are regarded as the very potent forms of estrogen that have been linked to hormone-dependent cancers (e.g., breast or prostate cancer).

The theory with flax is that flaxseed (and to a lesser extent, flaxseed oil) will skew the ratio of estradiol in favor of the 2-hydroxy types. This has been shown in scientific studies to be the case. This is very good from an anti-cancer perspective, but the question that I have is whether the 2-hydroxy types of estradiol are any different from the standpoint of corrupting our androgenic profiles than the 16-hyrdoxy types.

Opinions differ on that issue. At least one person who studies such information lumps flax in with soy and believes that, like soy, flax is still problematic for anyone seeking to maximize their androgenic profiles. However, he does not offer a scientific analysis to support his opinion. (Not saying he lacks one, but it is not stated.)

Another doctor who studies soy made a similar comparison between soy and flax but again without supporting analysis.

Another camp distinguishes between soy and flax on the basis that the former (soy) is recognized by the body as the more potent forms of estradiol and therefore operates like the very harmful xenoestrogens, whereas the latter (flax) skews the ratio of estradiol in favor of the more benign types, as discussed above.

Notably, the science that I’ve read seems to indicate that ingesting flax does not seem to increase the amount of estrogen (specifically estradiol) in the body, it only changes the specific type of estrodiol. If true, this would seem to suggest that, at worst, taking in flax would not harm you at all and may be beneficial (certainly from a cancer perspective and perhaps from a phyisque/lifestyle perspective as well).

Ori Hofmekler, author of the “Warrior Diet,” recently wrote a new book called the “Anti-Estrogenic Diet” (AED). In AED, Hofmekler espouses the view that holds that while soy is poison, flax is beneficial in the fight against excess estrogen for the reasons I described above.

Another benefits attributed to flax suggest that it . . .

  1. Inhibits the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase, which is responsible for converting testosterone into DHT. Although many believe that DHT is a potent anabolic hormone, it doesn’t appear to do anything that testosterone wouldn’t do and, moreover, is implicated in hair loss and prostate cancer/enlargement.

  2. Reduces aromatase enzyme, which is resposible for converting testosterone into estrogen.

Some potential concerns with flax are . . .

  1. At least one study found that flax increased levels of prolactin in females. This is not a good thing from a male’s perspective.

  2. At least one report mentioned in passing that flax seems to increase the amount of sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) which limits the bioavailability of sex hormones. If by that comment the author(s) meant that the increased SHBG binds to estrogen but not testosterone, this would be great. But if it binds to testosterone in addition to or instead of estrogen, that would range from bad to very, very bad.

One last comment and then I’ll stop: A study from Duke University indicated that flax consumption decreases testosterone. The scientists commented that flax appears to bind to testosterone and pull it out of the body. Two responses are in order:

First, the study involved men who were eating a low-fat diet (20% of calories from fat) in addition to flax consumption. Because low-fat diets clearly lead to diminished testosterone levels, the question arises as to which variable caused the diminished testosterone levels: the low-fat diet or the flax. This is a classic example of bad science. (Where are the other groups eating high/moderate fat and flax or low fat and no flax?)

Second, the scientist’s comment about how flax lowers testosterone by binding to it should be given little weight. Their experiment MIGHT have indicated that flax lowers testosterone levels but even assuming that is the case, the study surely did not reveal a mechanism. As such, that comment may be discarded as pure speculation.

In sum, the great weight of opinions on the issue suggests that flax may not be a problem and may acutally be helpful. I am conducting my own “experiment” with flax at the moment. Maybe someday someone will do a real bona fide study to see if flax in and of itself negatively impacts the estrogen-testosterone balance in the male body.

Well i just read this last night and will discontinue using flax seed oil and see what happens because in the last year that ive been using it ive had my nipples puff up more than usual and i wasnt sure what caused this. I’m hoping that laying off of the flax will help.

great post eic, thanks

lots of studies to show that soy isn’t evil, too

I think it boils down to whether the phyto-estrogens in flax are active at the receptor sites. The two contained in soy are. I’ll have to research what’s in flax since I also like to add ground up seeds to various meals.

Interesting question!

[quote]Beej1989 wrote:
Well i just read this last night and will discontinue using flax seed oil and see what happens because in the last year that ive been using it ive had my nipples puff up more than usual and i wasnt sure what caused this. I’m hoping that laying off of the flax will help.[/quote]

same thing happened to me(not oil but ground flax) i was using a tablespoon 3 times a day nipples started swelling(even whilst using REZ-V) stopped using flax when REZ-V finished and puffiness went away. just my experience.

I think I was born with gyno… or it might be from all the soy I was fed growing up.

[quote]Beej1989 wrote:
Well i just read this last night and will discontinue using flax seed oil and see what happens because in the last year that ive been using it ive had my nipples puff up more than usual and i wasnt sure what caused this. I’m hoping that laying off of the flax will help.[/quote]

Maybe you have better circulation.

If flax is anti-estrogen, wouldn’t it also be anti-testosterone? Is it not anti-cancer, anti-hormone? Isn’t soy used to prevent prostate cancer? Soy is anti-hormones, testosterone and estrogen.

But I have also read (from non-scientists) that soy has 5 times the dose of estrogen as the pill. I have also read(scientific source) that only soy in non-whole soy foods, such as powers and protein formulas, are bad for you. So you can still eat raw soybeans and drink soy milk.

They tell people with thyroid problems to stay away from soy products. However, the same people do not mention anything about flax or hummus.

[quote]bobo86 wrote:
I think I was born with gyno… or it might be from all the soy I was fed growing up.[/quote]

Sadly, same… Except i wasn’t fed soy. Sigh.

[quote]danchubb wrote:
bobo86 wrote:
I think I was born with gyno… or it might be from all the soy I was fed growing up.

Sadly, same… Except i wasn’t fed soy. Sigh.[/quote]

Born with “gyno”? You mean a vagina?

No, actually, I don’t. Nice try. I’ll be honest here friend, perhaps you should start reading before posting rubbish or thinly veiled insults and trying to tell me that steak is going to cause me to die of heart disease. Just a thought.

Dickhead.

[quote]danchubb wrote:
No, actually, I don’t. Nice try. I’ll be honest here friend, perhaps you should start reading before posting rubbish or thinly veiled insults and trying to tell me that steak is going to cause me to die of heart disease. Just a thought.

Dickhead.[/quote]
Well, chubb, you don’t have to eat your flax to prevent seeing your gyno. Eat that steak with mayo and blue cheese dressing, deep fried in a vat of oil. Don’t forget the smokes, booze, STDs, and drugs while you’re at it.

Honestly, you’re a tool. Like, apparently you have no idea what anyone is talking about and are remarkably blinkered when it comes to anyones views other than your own. Learn to read, then learn to comprehend, then stop copy-pasting crap from medical journals and formulate your own opinions on things. Following that, you may have something interesting to add. Otherwise, just piss off.

good post above eic

i’m am familiar with the AED, very interesting information. was always under the impression that “moderate” use of the ground flax seeds is most beneficial to males, with no negative impact upon hormone levels. imo, problems arise when bb’s use the pure oil or pill supplements in large quantities to obtain the “good fats” in their diets.used 2 tbsp daily of ground flax without any issues for years now.
just my input, very debatable topic

dezz

Could we have a longer article on AED it sounds intresting.