Fixing the Ghetto

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

We already do say “Ahh there you go…” when it comes to the six pack or the pack of malborough. We do the same when it comes to the lotto and the junk food, why should we draw a line at certain demonised drugs?[/quote]

If you’re living in poverty, you’re a worthless man spending your family’s scant resources on any of these things. Beer, Cigs, drugs, rims, neon lights for the undercarriage of your car, HBO, etc.

And before someone gets to crying foul over my choice of language, be honest. You’d vote for a politician who would force me to provide “safety nets” for this man’s family, wouldn’t you? Oh, but then I can’t be critical of his lifestyle, even though he’s been tethered to me against my will through wealth redistribution programs.

62

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I propose we also erase all insurance discounts for medical procedures.

If you get cancer, you should immediately go bankrupt.

I want to see everyone here paying in full for the smallest dental/medical treatment right out of their own pockets. Why do I get paid less based on which insurance carrier you have?

Hurt on the job? Shit, take the pay cut and lose the job. Why get paid for work you aren’t doing? Hell, you knew it was risky when you took that job at Target.

Hell, we can use this “do nothing” idea in all walks of life.

Agreed. It’s kind of sad that conservatism has morphed into the “fuck you” celebration of individualism that was once the province of Sixties radicals.[/quote]

They are coming across like political ass holes.

I see all kinds of people from high income to just scraping by and all of them act the same when the bill is due for medical procedures.

Apparently, that “take care of it all yourself” attitude only lasts as long as they aren’t the ones in need.

63

You guys don’t know nothing. According to Too Short, there is plenty of money in the ghetto.

64

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

We already do say “Ahh there you go…” when it comes to the six pack or the pack of malborough. We do the same when it comes to the lotto and the junk food, why should we draw a line at certain demonised drugs?

If you’re living in poverty, you’re a worthless man spending your family’s scant resources on any of these things. Beer, Cigs, drugs, rims, neon lights for the undercarriage of your car, HBO, etc.

And before someone gets to crying foul over my choice of language, be honest. You’d vote for a politician who would force me to provide “safety nets” for this man’s family, wouldn’t you? Oh, but then I can’t be critical of his lifestyle, even though he’s been tethered to me against my will through wealth redistribution programs. [/quote]

Worthless may be a tad harsh but I do totally get where you are coming from. I would argue (as others have before me) that the true measure of a civilisation is how it treats its least well off members but I can’t fault you for being angry at groups of people who do things that are so apparantly stupid and self destructive.

65

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

By the way, reading this thread has prompted me to download the wire. I better not be dissapointed![/quote]

Make sure to stop after season 3 if you don’t want to be disappointed. The show declines quite a bit in seasons 4 and 5.

66

thanks for the tip off. Is it as big a drop off as prison break?

67

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
thanks for the tip off. Is it as big a drop off as prison break?[/quote]

Don’t know, never watched Prison Break.

68

It depends what you think the problems of the Ghetto are. I personally see nothing wrong with poor neighbor hoods; I think the war on drugs brings violence in the form of gang activity to compete with an artificially inflated drug price. Take that away and you are getting closer to a poor neighbor hood

And Former Texas Guy, you sound like the true Republican. I think this is where the Republicans drop the ball; they do not want to do anything to help the poor. They think conservative values are screwing the poor.

69

[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

By the way, reading this thread has prompted me to download the wire. I better not be dissapointed!

Make sure to stop after season 3 if you don’t want to be disappointed. The show declines quite a bit in seasons 4 and 5.
[/quote]

No, Season 4 is arguably the best season (I’d go with 3, but it’s close). 5 isn’t as good as what came before, but still has enough to be better than 95% of what’s out there. And it wraps up nicely.

70

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Is there any way to fix this mess? How do you rejuvenate a city that’s as run down as Baltimore (or, around here, Paterson/Newark/Camden).

I’m curious as to what people’s thoughts are, because the more I come to understand it, the more it seems like there is no solution.[/quote]

You are partially correct. A solution will not come down from a mandate on high.

The problem with most poor areas, as I see it, is a lack of respect for personal property. I mean this in the most general sense; for example, very few people are allowed to use their own property in a productive way without bowing to some governing body for permission – which usually is controlled by some other influence group.

Prosperity can only be brought about with productivity. Productivity will only be brought about by free people pursuing their own interests and goals by means of their and others’ property. Without respect for property nothing can happen. This is also the essential problem with third world countries.

(An other factor is crime that is spurred from prohibition. Why are poorer neighborhoods more affected by prohibition than less poor neighborhoods?)

71

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I propose we also erase all insurance discounts for medical procedures.

If you get cancer, you should immediately go bankrupt.

I want to see everyone here paying in full for the smallest dental/medical treatment right out of their own pockets. Why do I get paid less based on which insurance carrier you have?

Hurt on the job? Shit, take the pay cut and lose the job. Why get paid for work you aren’t doing? Hell, you knew it was risky when you took that job at Target.

Hell, we can use this “do nothing” idea in all walks of life.

Agreed. It’s kind of sad that conservatism has morphed into the “fuck you” celebration of individualism that was once the province of Sixties radicals.[/quote]

There is a hell of a difference between privatized healthcare and an agreed upon business agreement between two parties as opposed to forced taxation to support a crack head hooker on hiv medication. One who could use the money she spends staying high on insurance.

72

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
It depends what you think the problems of the Ghetto are. I personally see nothing wrong with poor neighbor hoods; I think the war on drugs brings violence in the form of gang activity to compete with an artificially inflated drug price. Take that away and you are getting closer to a poor neighbor hood

And Former Texas Guy, you sound like the true Republican. I think this is where the Republicans drop the ball; they do not want to do anything to help the poor. They think conservative values are screwing the poor.
[/quote]

I’m suggesting the poor help themselves. Many do and they come on up. Those who stay in the ghetto make their choices. So fuck them.

It may take a paradigm shift but when a person starts relying on themselves to fix their situation they will find a way to do it. And when a person sits around waiting for some one else to fix it for them, they will be sorely dissapointed and will be a drain.

If that makes me a republican asshole so be it.

Be responsible. put down the drugs, don’t pour hundreds or even thousands of dollars in to modifying your piece of shit hoopty when you can’t even make rent, finish school, achive greater things than long hours washing dishes, don’t break the law and blame others for the cycle you find your life taking and stop whining.

Contrary to popular opinion, nobody handed middle class to middle class americans, or ensures they keep it.

They made the choices to move up in or maintain their lives, acted on those decisions and earned their position in society.

The upper crust may be sprinkled with trust fund babies and heirs but virtually everybody else had to work and be smart and avoid trouble for the benz they can actually afford to be parked in their circle drive.

73

[quote]FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:

There is a hell of a difference between privatized healthcare and an agreed upon business agreement between two parties as opposed to forced taxation to support a crack head hooker on hiv medication. One who could use the money she spends staying high on insurance. [/quote]

If you asked most doctors if they are happy with the current insurance situation, I doubt very many would claim it was “agreed upon” or that it is even fair at all. It simply benefits you. It does not benefit the doctor and many have actually left their practices because of that and similar circumstances.

In effect, it is very much forced onto medical health care workers.

You, of course, don’t have a problem with that though…because you are the one who sees the benefit.

74

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Fix the ghetto by making it hip. Wealthy gays will move in and renovate buildings. Wealthy straight singles and couples living together will move in and do the same. Eventually wealthy married white couples with children will move in and demand better schools.

Government will listen and the schools will improve. Voila. Fixed ghetto.[/quote]

They have had some gentrification in Detroit where some old neighborhoods have become hip to move into like the Woodbridge district where you can find some beautiful old brick homes.

http://detroitwoodbridgeduplex.blogspot.com/

or Indian Village.

The problem is if you step outside of these nice enclaves you can very quickly find yourself deep in the hood. If you ever watch the movie 8 mile the ghetto house that Cheddar Bob lives in is just a couple of streets away from Indian Village.

Gentrification can do wonders for restoring a old area but it has it’s limits. Especially when the area has become a battle zone in the war on drugs. War is about destruction, the ghetto reflects the fact that it is a battle zone.

75

I grew up poor with few opportunities, so I joined the Army.

I wonder what it would be like if everyone, men and women were drafted for two years when they turned eighteen. They would get a salary, living quarters, an education and more opportunities than they might otherwise have.

76

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
ghettos did exist before the current drug laws existed…[/quote]

True. However before the war on drugs there were other factors that were hurting those areas. It was only in 1968 that the civil rights act was signed by president Johnson.

It was only three years later in 1971 that Nixon declared the war on drugs. Which Reagan ramped up in 1980.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/cron/

So those areas only had three years between the signing of the civil rights act and the war on drugs in which to recover. One bad situation was replaced by another.

77

easy with the white-black thing, Go back far enough and the ghettos of new york were white. There still are many white ghettos in this country. “The war on drugs”, while a failure is not the reason we have poor people.

78

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
easy with the white-black thing, Go back far enough and the ghettos of new york were white. There still are many white ghettos in this country. “The war on drugs”, while a failure is not the reason we have poor people.[/quote]

The war on drugs turns poor neighbor hoods into Ghettos

79

[quote]FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
It depends what you think the problems of the Ghetto are. I personally see nothing wrong with poor neighbor hoods; I think the war on drugs brings violence in the form of gang activity to compete with an artificially inflated drug price. Take that away and you are getting closer to a poor neighbor hood

And Former Texas Guy, you sound like the true Republican. I think this is where the Republicans drop the ball; they do not want to do anything to help the poor. They think conservative values are screwing the poor.

I’m suggesting the poor help themselves. Many do and they come on up. Those who stay in the ghetto make their choices. So fuck them.

It may take a paradigm shift but when a person starts relying on themselves to fix their situation they will find a way to do it. And when a person sits around waiting for some one else to fix it for them, they will be sorely dissapointed and will be a drain.

If that makes me a republican asshole so be it.

Be responsible. put down the drugs, don’t pour hundreds or even thousands of dollars in to modifying your piece of shit hoopty when you can’t even make rent, finish school, achive greater things than long hours washing dishes, don’t break the law and blame others for the cycle you find your life taking and stop whining.

Contrary to popular opinion, nobody handed middle class to middle class americans, or ensures they keep it.

They made the choices to move up in or maintain their lives, acted on those decisions and earned their position in society.

The upper crust may be sprinkled with trust fund babies and heirs but virtually everybody else had to work and be smart and avoid trouble for the benz they can actually afford to be parked in their circle drive.[/quote]

Fence it off. Quit pouring money in to it. Check back in a few years, remove the skeletons, level the buildings and build a nice park.

Some people just suck at life. They fail every where, usually due to not trying and ignoring opportunities, and wind up in the ghetto. That’s why the ghetto sucks. It’s a neighborhood full of people who suck. It falls apart because nobody gives a shit to fix it or themselves. “It is what it is.” Fuck that. It is what it is because they don’t care to make it something else.

You can’t change these people. A few maybe but most have had ample opportunity to do something positive and pissed it away.

Take the kids though. 12 and younger. They still have a shot. Then fence it off and quit pouring money in.

Problem solved.

I am sorry; I just thought this was indicative of a Republican

80

[quote]FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
It depends what you think the problems of the Ghetto are. I personally see nothing wrong with poor neighbor hoods; I think the war on drugs brings violence in the form of gang activity to compete with an artificially inflated drug price. Take that away and you are getting closer to a poor neighbor hood

And Former Texas Guy, you sound like the true Republican. I think this is where the Republicans drop the ball; they do not want to do anything to help the poor. They think conservative values are screwing the poor.

I’m suggesting the poor help themselves. Many do and they come on up. Those who stay in the ghetto make their choices. So fuck them.

It may take a paradigm shift but when a person starts relying on themselves to fix their situation they will find a way to do it. And when a person sits around waiting for some one else to fix it for them, they will be sorely dissapointed and will be a drain.

If that makes me a republican asshole so be it.

Be responsible. put down the drugs, don’t pour hundreds or even thousands of dollars in to modifying your piece of shit hoopty when you can’t even make rent, finish school, achive greater things than long hours washing dishes, don’t break the law and blame others for the cycle you find your life taking and stop whining.

Contrary to popular opinion, nobody handed middle class to middle class americans, or ensures they keep it.

They made the choices to move up in or maintain their lives, acted on those decisions and earned their position in society.

The upper crust may be sprinkled with trust fund babies and heirs but virtually everybody else had to work and be smart and avoid trouble for the benz they can actually afford to be parked in their circle drive.[/quote]

Fence it off. Quit pouring money in to it. Check back in a few years, remove the skeletons, level the buildings and build a nice park.

Some people just suck at life. They fail every where, usually due to not trying and ignoring opportunities, and wind up in the ghetto. That’s why the ghetto sucks. It’s a neighborhood full of people who suck.

It falls apart because nobody gives a shit to fix it or themselves. “It is what it is.” Fuck that. It is what it is because they don’t care to make it something else.

You can’t change these people. A few maybe but most have had ample opportunity to do something positive and pissed it away.

Take the kids though. 12 and younger. They still have a shot. Then fence it off and quit pouring money in.

Problem solved.

I am sorry; I just thought this was indicative of a Republican