Fixing the Ghetto

A ghetto shouldn’t be a permanent place to live. It should be a place you want to move from. Unfortunately the people who remain don’t take the steps to get out of it in most cases.

The first step is it should be safe. You should feel safe. That takes the police and the citizens who live there. The police can provide the muscle but the residents have to stop tolerating crime and lawlessness from their neighbors and themselves.

You need an way forward economically. A revitalized and supported police force and a big cultural shift in what is accpetable behavior.

No easy answers Irish but I think a first step is to stop subsidizing and condoning bad behavior.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
I’ve moved around a lot and made friends with people from Watts, Casablanca, Wattsonville, La 89, Zona Norte, EastLos, South Central, Compton, etc.

I’ve met a bunch of families that have lived entire generations in the hood. Said families have worked harder and sacrificed more to provide for their own than anyone I know. They aren’t the exception either. I think they’d object to being fenced off and sentenced to death. Too many people assume that those in the ghetto fucked themselves… problems of this scale are never that simple.

That’s kind of where I’m going. These are the responses of a lot of people that just don’t care.

And it’s funny, because it will stay like that until one of their middle/upper class rich asses is driving through the ghetto and gets caught by a stray. Then there will be a big outcry as to “How people can live like this, what are the cops, government, etc. doing to help…”

So really the only solution that the Politics board can come up with is “Fuck them, they deserve it.”

Man. That’s disappointing. The depth of thought here is not what I thought it would be.[/quote]

Intent must be followed by action to be worth a shit. You can have all the intent in the world but with out doing anything you still suck.

If the ghettos are going to be fixed, personal responsibility will need to be taken seriously.

The gov’t, laws etc etc won’t fix broken people. Individuals truly are the only ones who can fix themselves.

But they won’t. Which is why they suck as some people do and why their neighborhood does too.

Intent + action = change.

That is really as deep as the level of thinking needs to go. There is no hidden philosophy here.

If you can’t afford to do much more than pay the bills check to check, drop the boxing lessons, the bjj, cable tv or what have you.

Extras are great but don’t waste your money if you can’t afford them. Build wealth or at least excess and then get your extras.

My mom is a teacher. She had a poor neighborhood zoned to her school once.

The school gave a refrigerator to a family who didn’t have one in a fund raiser to save the kids from being taken by cps.

True story, the parents sold the fridge, went to cancun “because it wasn’t fair they couldn’t be like rich folks and now they had a chance”, lost the kids and blamed the school for not providing another refrigerator.

While that is a little extreme, it’s thinking like that on an individual basis that creates neighborhoods of like minded people we know as ghettos. People in shanty’s drive cars with huge rims, new paint jobs etc etc and owe more money than welfare pays them to create the image of wealth. Rather than appropriate the money spent on their “whip” responsibly and work to get out of debt and build savings, they buy an image that means shit and keeps them in debt.

A paradigm shift in these individuals is the only real cure.

No amount of federal or charity money will bring change.

The nice neighborhoods, nice cars, well groomed and dressed people of the suburbs are that way because of who they are on the inside. The big house doesn’t maintain itself. It is an outward projection of the inner drive the individual who owns and maintains it has.

Neighborhoods don’t create people. People create neighborhoods. And some people, no matter their intent, just suck.

[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What ghettos needs are intact families. For a child to escape a cycle of poverty (and violence), having mommy and daddy married and living together is the greatest thing they could have going for them. The truly poor are the least able to afford libertine lifestyles.

All the dads are in jail on drug charges.
[/quote]

They shouldn’t have been on drugs.

[quote]hedo wrote:

The first step is it should be safe. You should feel safe. That takes the police and the citizens who live there. The police can provide the muscle but the residents have to stop tolerating crime and lawlessness from their neighbors and themselves.

You need an way forward economically. A revitalized and supported police force and a big cultural shift in what is accpetable behavior.

No easy answers Irish but I think a first step is to stop subsidizing and condoning bad behavior. [/quote]

Holy hell, I think I agree with a lot of what hedo wrote!

[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What ghettos needs are intact families. For a child to escape a cycle of poverty (and violence), having mommy and daddy married and living together is the greatest thing they could have going for them. The truly poor are the least able to afford libertine lifestyles.

All the dads are in jail on drug charges.
[/quote]

Don’t sell drugs.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
I’ve moved around a lot and made friends with people from Watts, Casablanca, Wattsonville, La 89, Zona Norte, EastLos, South Central, Compton, etc.

I’ve met a bunch of families that have lived entire generations in the hood. Said families have worked harder and sacrificed more to provide for their own than anyone I know. They aren’t the exception either. I think they’d object to being fenced off and sentenced to death. Too many people assume that those in the ghetto fucked themselves… problems of this scale are never that simple.

That’s kind of where I’m going. These are the responses of a lot of people that just don’t care.

And it’s funny, because it will stay like that until one of their middle/upper class rich asses is driving through the ghetto and gets caught by a stray. Then there will be a big outcry as to “How people can live like this, what are the cops, government, etc. doing to help…”

So really the only solution that the Politics board can come up with is “Fuck them, they deserve it.”

Man. That’s disappointing. The depth of thought here is not what I thought it would be.

So, what was the proper response? Double the amount of money being spent for the War on Poverty? [/quote]

That’s the whole idea there, isn’t it big guy? Spend the money better. What’s your idea of how to do that?

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sloth wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
nopal_juventus wrote:
I’ve moved around a lot and made friends with people from Watts, Casablanca, Wattsonville, La 89, Zona Norte, EastLos, South Central, Compton, etc.

I’ve met a bunch of families that have lived entire generations in the hood. Said families have worked harder and sacrificed more to provide for their own than anyone I know. They aren’t the exception either. I think they’d object to being fenced off and sentenced to death. Too many people assume that those in the ghetto fucked themselves… problems of this scale are never that simple.

That’s kind of where I’m going. These are the responses of a lot of people that just don’t care.

And it’s funny, because it will stay like that until one of their middle/upper class rich asses is driving through the ghetto and gets caught by a stray. Then there will be a big outcry as to “How people can live like this, what are the cops, government, etc. doing to help…”

So really the only solution that the Politics board can come up with is “Fuck them, they deserve it.”

Man. That’s disappointing. The depth of thought here is not what I thought it would be.

So, what was the proper response? Double the amount of money being spent for the War on Poverty?

That’s the whole idea there, isn’t it big guy? Spend the money better. What’s your idea of how to do that?[/quote]

There is no way to do it unless those in the ghetto want to change. That’s it.

All the motivational speakers, lawmakers and social workers in the world can’t change an attitude.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What ghettos needs are intact families. For a child to escape a cycle of poverty (and violence), having mommy and daddy married and living together is the greatest thing they could have going for them. The truly poor are the least able to afford libertine lifestyles.

All the dads are in jail on drug charges.

Don’t sell drugs. [/quote]

You go to jail for possession also. That is way the drug laws are for mass incarceration cause even during alcohol prohibition, users didn’t go to jail.

Have enough fancy distractions around so the middle class doesn’t notice like they do in NYC, LA, Las Vegas, etc.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

That’s the whole idea there, isn’t it big guy? Spend the money better. [/quote]

No, actually, it isn’t. My idea is to leave the money with the people who earned it. The WoP is a money hole.

[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What ghettos needs are intact families. For a child to escape a cycle of poverty (and violence), having mommy and daddy married and living together is the greatest thing they could have going for them. The truly poor are the least able to afford libertine lifestyles.

All the dads are in jail on drug charges.

Don’t sell drugs.

You go to jail for possession also. That is way the drug laws are for mass incarceration cause even during alcohol prohibition, users didn’t go to jail.

[/quote]

So, when you live in poverty, with a wife and child depending on your paycheck, or on you trying to find a place to earn a paycheck, spend it on baby forumala, car repairs, or educational products for the kid, etc.

edits: This isn’t to say the laws don’t need changing. But, if you have money to spend on something as totally useless as getting high…

I propose we also erase all insurance discounts for medical procedures.

If you get cancer, you should immediately go bankrupt.

I want to see everyone here paying in full for the smallest dental/medical treatment right out of their own pockets. Why do I get paid less based on which insurance carrier you have?

Hurt on the job? Shit, take the pay cut and lose the job. Why get paid for work you aren’t doing? Hell, you knew it was risky when you took that job at Target.

Hell, we can use this “do nothing” idea in all walks of life.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I propose we also erase all insurance discounts for medical procedures.

If you get cancer, you should immediately go bankrupt.

I want to see everyone here paying in full for the smallest dental/medical treatment right out of their own pockets. Why do I get paid less based on which insurance carrier you have?

Hurt on the job? Shit, take the pay cut and lose the job. Why get paid for work you aren’t doing? Hell, you knew it was risky when you took that job at Target.

Hell, we can use this “do nothing” idea in all walks of life.[/quote]

Agreed. It’s kind of sad that conservatism has morphed into the “fuck you” celebration of individualism that was once the province of Sixties radicals.

Well, I thought conservatism championed Subsidiarianism. Surely folks in DC sinking federal dollars into ghettos isn’t a conservative idea.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What ghettos needs are intact families. For a child to escape a cycle of poverty (and violence), having mommy and daddy married and living together is the greatest thing they could have going for them. The truly poor are the least able to afford libertine lifestyles.

All the dads are in jail on drug charges.

Don’t sell drugs.

You go to jail for possession also. That is way the drug laws are for mass incarceration cause even during alcohol prohibition, users didn’t go to jail.

So, when you live in poverty, with a wife and child depending on your paycheck, or on you trying to find a place to earn a paycheck, spend it on baby forumala, car repairs, or educational products for the kid, etc.

edits: This isn’t to say the laws don’t need changing. But, if you have money to spend on something as totally useless as getting high…[/quote]

This legalizing drug argument could go on for ever. People may not agree with every law, but they have to be obeyed. Discipline is doing the right thing in the absence of leadership, its a military quote that applies to everything in life. Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow it.

[quote]snipeout wrote:

This legalizing drug argument could go on for ever. People may not agree with every law, but they have to be obeyed. Discipline is doing the right thing in the absence of leadership, its a military quote that applies to everything in life. Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow it.
[/quote]

The laws do need to change. However, you’re already a screw up if you’re out buying drugs to get high while you and your family live in poverty. Time to be a prudent man and father. Time to be a big boy now.

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
Fix the ghetto by making it hip. Wealthy gays will move in and renovate buildings. Wealthy straight singles and couples living together will move in and do the same. Eventually wealthy married white couples with children will move in and demand better schools. Government will listen and the schools will improve. Voila. Fixed ghetto.[/quote]

Pretty much what is happening throughout London (though it is not just gays, it’s the wealthy youngsters.)

People move to London because they have got a job that pays pretty well. House prices in nice areas are ridiculous though so they buy where they can afford, typically run down areas. These areas then become hip due to all the young people moving in. Art galleries, coffee bars etc grow up around the existing infrastructure and the areas kind of clean themselves up.

I have seen this happen all over London over the last 10 years. Areas like Shoreditch and Hackney are a testement to how well it works.

That said, I went for the other option, I rented in Kensington!

By the way, reading this thread has prompted me to download the wire. I better not be dissapointed!

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Rocky101 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What ghettos needs are intact families. For a child to escape a cycle of poverty (and violence), having mommy and daddy married and living together is the greatest thing they could have going for them. The truly poor are the least able to afford libertine lifestyles.

All the dads are in jail on drug charges.

Don’t sell drugs.

You go to jail for possession also. That is way the drug laws are for mass incarceration cause even during alcohol prohibition, users didn’t go to jail.

So, when you live in poverty, with a wife and child depending on your paycheck, or on you trying to find a place to earn a paycheck, spend it on baby forumala, car repairs, or educational products for the kid, etc.

edits: This isn’t to say the laws don’t need changing. But, if you have money to spend on something as totally useless as getting high…[/quote]

Do you not get that people who are not happy with their lives will look for an escape?

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

So, when you live in poverty, with a wife and child depending on your paycheck, or on you trying to find a place to earn a paycheck, spend it on baby forumala, car repairs, or educational products for the kid, etc.

edits: This isn’t to say the laws don’t need changing. But, if you have money to spend on something as totally useless as getting high…

Do you not get that people who are not happy with their lives will look for an escape?[/quote]

Your point? Are we supposed to say, “Awww, there, there, spend that money and toke up. Who are we to suggest you put it away in an account for your baby.”

No. More. Excuses. Shame is a powerful and healthy tool. There is no room for making such a person feel like his decisions are understandable and excusable. Stop it! It shouldn’t even be a damned debate. Put that money towards your family for goodness’ sake.

We’re talking about people who, more than anyone else, need to live prudently. Who must think ahead for their children. If you’re living in poverty, don’t inhale what you do have! Don’t be so damned selfish as to give into your despair, when people your duty bound to care for are counting on you.

You aren’t getting your government check in the mail one day, turning around and buying a pack of cigs and some weed the next, and expecting me to cover my eyes and shut my mouth.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

So, when you live in poverty, with a wife and child depending on your paycheck, or on you trying to find a place to earn a paycheck, spend it on baby forumala, car repairs, or educational products for the kid, etc.

edits: This isn’t to say the laws don’t need changing. But, if you have money to spend on something as totally useless as getting high…

Do you not get that people who are not happy with their lives will look for an escape?

Your point? Are we supposed to say, “Awww, there, there, spend that money and toke up. Who are we to suggest you put it away in an account for your baby.”

No. More. Excuses. Shame is a powerful and healthy tool. There is no room for making such a person feel like his decisions are understandable and excusable. Stop it! It shouldn’t even be a damned debate. Put that money towards your family for goodness’ sake.

We’re talking about people who, more than anyone else, need to live prudently. Who must think ahead for their children. If you’re living in poverty, don’t inhale what you do have! Don’t be so damned selfish as to give into your despair, when people your duty bound to care for are counting on you.[/quote]

Whilst you are totally correct that these are the last people who should be spending their cash on drugs, in the real world we know that large numbers of people will look for release from their life through legal or illegal narcotics.

It’s very easy from the outside to say, ‘I man up and look after my family, so should you.’ but this doesn’t really solve anything.

We already do say “Ahh there you go…” when it comes to the six pack or the pack of malborough. We do the same when it comes to the lotto and the junk food, why should we draw a line at certain demonised drugs?