[quote]pat wrote:
All the movie did was rouse up the muslims to call for death, which actually serves to prove the creator’s point. [/quote]
I recall you anticipating 150 corpses and ready to bet on that figure.
Sure I can. If somebody hates (or fears) me solely because I profess to the Islamic faith, then I will educate 'em idiots and bigots.
I can and do blame people for their faulty logic and hasty generalizations. Clear?
There you go. As long as have your head in the gutter and use blanket statements like that, nobody expects you to have a healthy mind.
As opposed to the central theme of love? I can see where you’re going with that. Try subtlety for a change.
I expect? What are you talking about? All I did was post a story about desecrated graves and noted that Wilders’ efforts are not remotely helping the situation.
On second reading, I’ll have to ask you to state your position regarding Arras’ graves incident. I would normally assume everyone be outraged about it, but your “open arms” comments casts a doubt in my mind.
We’ve been over this many times before. Islam is not going anywhere. As a major religion, it is here to stay, and it is gaining ground by the day. Saying that it will self destruct is just wishful thinking on your part. You won’t find one notable and credentialed person in the field of demographics who can corroborate your assertion - and that’s not just because of Ibn Khaldun.
If I had to guess, I’ll say that Al-Qaeda, Wahabism and similar movements can look forward to a prosperous future. You see, they feed on aggression. Be it amalgams and vitriolic language from a Dutch right-winger or American bombs and hegemony. Large scale terrorist attacks are quite unlikely now, but expect smaller scale attacks worldwide in the future (i.e: less than a hundred people). And if I’m correct, the main targets shall be government representatives, in an effort by Al-Zawahiri and his cronies to gain some credibility in the eyes of the Arab street.
[quote]lixy wrote:
…
If I had to guess, I’ll say that Al-Qaeda, Wahabism and similar movements can look forward to a prosperous future. You see, they feed on aggression. Be it amalgams and vitriolic language from a Dutch right-winger or American bombs and hegemony. Large scale terrorist attacks are quite unlikely now, but expect smaller scale attacks worldwide in the future (i.e: less than a hundred people). And if I’m correct, the main targets shall be government representatives, in an effort by Al-Zawahiri and his cronies to gain some credibility in the eyes of the Arab street. [/quote]
I think people are starting to get the shits of it. They have made huge mistakes by killing fellow muslims and muslims are slowly turning against then. Except you. You love it.
Philip Jenkins, in particular, debunks the “fastest growing” lie that Muslims like to use. Whether you believe Jenkins or not is of no account. You’ll see yourself in 20 years. The freedom of information on the internet has led to more anti-Islamic publications than ever before. People, Muslims in particular, find the idea of following an epileptic, murdering, theiving, pedophile “prophet” to be a violation of the conscience everyone is born with.
I believe we’re seeing the twilight of Islam, if anything. I could be wrong, but the Cross will always triumph over the Crescent, even if it doesn’t triumph in numbers.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Yeah, they didn’t care about all the violence and blood shed in the name of Allah, that was shown. They were pissed because someone “misquoted” the Koran.
[/quote]
Just as the typical proponent of the Iraq war doesn’t seem to care about dead Iraqis but screams the second anything negative is said about the US. What an interesting parallel.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
We’ve been over this many times before. Islam is not going anywhere. As a major religion, it is here to stay, and it is gaining ground by the day. Saying that it will self destruct is just wishful thinking on your part. You won’t find one notable and credentialed person in the field of demographics who can corroborate your assertion - and that’s not just because of Ibn Khaldun.
Philip Jenkins, in particular, debunks the “fastest growing” lie that Muslims like to use. Whether you believe Jenkins or not is of no account. You’ll see yourself in 20 years. The freedom of information on the internet has led to more anti-Islamic publications than ever before. People, Muslims in particular, find the idea of following an epileptic, murdering, theiving, pedophile “prophet” to be a violation of the conscience everyone is born with.
I believe we’re seeing the twilight of Islam, if anything. I could be wrong, but the Cross will always triumph over the Crescent, even if it doesn’t triumph in numbers. [/quote]
If you count converts at the end of a knife or a gun, I believe the numbers. It’s easy to get people to do your will when they threaten you and your family. You have entire countries mandating islam as your religion or they will fucking kill you.
I am not talking about one religion beating another…The vile disgrace that islam has become is sufficient for it’s own destruction. As shit dries it flakes off and blows away, islam will likely follow suit.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Yeah, they didn’t care about all the violence and blood shed in the name of Allah, that was shown. They were pissed because someone “misquoted” the Koran.
Just as the typical proponent of the Iraq war doesn’t seem to care about dead Iraqis but screams the second anything negative is said about the US. What an interesting parallel.[/quote]
Who says no one cares about the dead Iraqis? Their deaths make me hate the terrorists who cause the violence and bloodshed even more.
The more car bombs that go off in Iraqi markets, the more Iraqi who are killed by militia death squads only makes this film’s message more important.
Yes, no one here likes the thought of dead Iraqis, except Al-Qaeda, which is a Sunni Muslim organization. I hate also that they (Iraqis) are part of a religion that demands that they be sacrificed for the purpose of establishing an earthly kingdom, for that is precisely what Al-Qaeda is doing to them.
Interesting that their choice of attacking Israelis, (in retaliation for taking Palestinian land, so it is justified in their eyes), are the exact same tactics they use to kill fellow Muslims. What’s their excuse this time, they’re collaborators, they participated in voting, they are Sunnis or Shia? Insanity!
Also interesting was the situation in Lebanon in the early 80’s. When the Christian Militia slaughtered the Palestinians in the refugee camp, the world was shocked and came with UN Peacekeepers (who were in turn kidnapped, and or slaughtered), and the Israelis were forced to withdraw.
When the Christians did the killing, it was portrayed as evil incarnate, yet the Muslims kill each other like there’s no tomorrow and bitch when a film condemns this, claiming it is anti-Muslim.
Really says a lot about the Muslim mentality, doesn’t it?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Also interesting was the situation in Lebanon in the early 80’s. When the Christian Militia slaughtered the Palestinians in the refugee camp, the world was shocked and came with UN Peacekeepers (who were in turn kidnapped, and or slaughtered), and the Israelis were forced to withdraw.
When the Christians did the killing, it was portrayed as evil incarnate, yet the Muslims kill each other like there’s no tomorrow and bitch when a film condemns this, claiming it is anti-Muslim.
Really says a lot about the Muslim mentality, doesn’t it?[/quote]
The film condemns Muslims killing other Muslims? I thought it condemned them killing non-Muslims (haven’t watched it).
And you seem to be suggesting that Muslim v Muslim violence is not condemned by Muslims. Are they not allowed to condemn offensive material while there is violence going on?
The film is about violent jihad and sometimes muslims kill other muslims during violent jihad, look at the situation in Iraq that is Shia vs Sunni for example.
If they condemn the offensive material, do they also condemn the actions by muslims portrayed on the film which is also offensive?
What makes the film offensive? The fact that Muslims kill for the sake and propagation of their religion, or that someone is calling them out on it?
For instance, you’ve got Iran condemning the film. In it, there is an Iranian official calling for international islamic revolution. Now, did he or did he not say these words? Does the Iranian government support international islamic revolution or not? Does the International islamic revolution get it’s inspiration from the Koran? Does the film say this? Then why is it offensive to anyone?
While you could probably come back at me and say the Neo Nazi Skinheads and KKK use Bible quotes for inspiration to spread hate, that is a valid point. But the KKK and Skinheads are outlaw organizations and criminals. Can’t say the same for the leaders of a country like Iran for example.
And imprisoning KKK, Neo-Nazi and Skinheads for hate-speech is not looked down upon by most of the world. But if a country began rounding up Muslims who preach violent Jihad, there would be an unbelievable backlash.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
The film is about violent jihad and sometimes muslims kill other muslims during violent jihad, look at the situation in Iraq that is Shia vs Sunni for example.
If they condemn the offensive material, do they also condemn the actions by muslims portrayed on the film which is also offensive?
[/quote]
Of course… that’s my point. Why can’t they condemn both? And they do.
Lumping all Muslims in with terrorists, and suggesting that these acts are ‘true’ Islam v a distortion.
[quote]
For instance, you’ve got Iran condemning the film. In it, there is an Iranian official calling for international islamic revolution. Now, did he or did he not say these words? Does the Iranian government support international islamic revolution or not? Does the International islamic revolution get it’s inspiration from the Koran? Does the film say this? Then why is it offensive to anyone?[/quote]
If the movie was saying ‘these Iranian officials are douches for calling for an Islamic Revolution because that would mean such and such’ we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But they’re not, they’re trying to blame the entire Muslim religion, and I think you’re one of the people who sees that it’s really about politics.
It is supposed to be in America though… you are suppose to believe in freedom of speech but you want the rest of the world to restrict theirs in a way that makes you happy? Speech should be responded to in kind, and it is.
Many countries, including Arab countries, have put plenty of opposition against groups like Al Qaeda. I don’t know what makes you think they just get a free ride everywhere.
[quote]will to power wrote:
Many countries, including Arab countries, have put plenty of opposition against groups like Al Qaeda. I don’t know what makes you think they just get a free ride everywhere.[/quote]
According to the theory supported by some here, all Muslims sympathize with Al-Qaeda, and those who say they don’t are called liars and presented with the same indoctrination material of Al-Qaeda to “prove” that Islam is behind it all.
Can’t you see that the whole Western world is deluded?
There IS no problem with Islamic terrorism.
[/quote]
No one is saying that.
Of course there isn’t, only when people try to enforce it does it become a problem.
Complete strawman, no one here is saying it’s okay to respond to this film with violence and the whole point is the Muslim community in general is not responding with violence.
When your criticisms are directed to all Muslims and not those who commit violence, then yes, they are unfounded.
For someone who complains about how one sided people’s views are, you sure come off that way yourself.
[quote]lixy wrote:
will to power wrote:
Many countries, including Arab countries, have put plenty of opposition against groups like Al Qaeda. I don’t know what makes you think they just get a free ride everywhere.
According to the theory supported by some here, all Muslims sympathize with Al-Qaeda, and those who say they don’t are called liars and presented with the same indoctrination material of Al-Qaeda to “prove” that Islam is behind it all.
Did I get that right?[/quote]
Yeah, because apparently the Al Qaeda interpretation of Islam must be the right one. Nevermind that it’s different to that of every Muslim I’ve ever met, and goes against a lot of the stuff that use to be considered fundamental to Islam [like the violence against other Muslims thing].
[quote]Chushin wrote:
will to power wrote:
For someone who complains about how one sided people’s views are, you sure come off that way yourself.
That’s what happens when a person gets tired of constant denial in the face of facts: They give up on reasoned discussion and take the diametrically-opposed view.
[/quote]
I would think you would understand lixy’s position then, considering many of the posters here.
I’ve never said there are no problems, though I consider most to be related to social or economic factors than truly Islam, the writing to me seeming rather malleable on a lot of issues.
A couple of examples off the top of my head though, one of the biggest for me is the idea of Sharia law. No explanation needed I’m sure.
Another is many people’s interpretation of a couple of passages in the Qur’an as far as how women are expected to dress. If I remember right it says they’re suppose to dress modestly, which is pretty reasonable, but when it’s taken to the point of forcing women to wear the hijab or a burka or any other iteration, that’s a problem. In particular I find it incredibly sad seeing the rare case of families wrapping up their young daughters like that.
There’s worse stuff I could’ve mentioned depending on how broadly you accept who is and who is not a part of Islam, but these are just things that have had a more personal effect on me at one point or another.
Now I have to ask you, what was the motivation to that question? Did you think that I don’t think there are any problems with Islam? Do you think there’s any large scale organisation that hasn’t had any negative impacts on the world? And, why is it important if I consider there to be negatives to Islam?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
The more car bombs that go off in Iraqi markets, the more Iraqi who are killed by militia death squads only makes this film’s message more important.
[/quote]
And what about the Iraqis who rightly conclude that America brought these “terrorists” to Iraq?