First Time HRT, Help

Pharma
21

There are 1000mg in 1 gram. KSman has recommended 0.5mg per week split into EOD doses. That dosage may be near impossible to administer with tabs depending on the mg per tab. With much cheaper chem research lab liquid Adex, you can use a syringe to extract very precise amounts and squirt it in your mouth and swallow or add to juice if preferred.

In short - NO - you do not want to be taking 1 gram dosages as that will lead to too low E2 = no libido, achy joints, very cranky mood, mental fogginess, feeling like shit in general.

If you can follow up KSman’s 0.5mg/w (split into EOD doses = 0.143mg EOD or 6 drops of 1mg/ml concentrate if I remember correctly) with the type of E2 blood test KSman specified (as these tests are more geared for women and are normally not sensitive enough to give a useful reading for men) you can determine if you are achieving the low normal level (21pg/ml??) that KSman’s research and experience have determined to be optimal for most.

You will know when you achieve it also by feeling of well being, increased libido, less puffiness/bloating, higher free test level.

22

Thanks Dynamo! Yeah the doc perscribed me the 1mg Tablets 30 days worth 3 refills for now… I am going to be doing .25-.5 EOD especially because I got the goto to do 7.5G instead of 5 per day of androgel… That arimidex is freaking expensive lol…
.
Btw, I have 5g packets so I am going to be doing a pack and a half daily… How should I preserve the other half of the pack left over til the next day? Zip lock bags? or rubber band seal? any ideas??

23

It’s a littel hard to split the Arimidex tabs in 4. If you search for Adex and research chemicals, you will find many Internet sites that sell this liquid oral version of Anastrazole (Arimidex) for between $40 - $70 for 60ml at 1mg/ml. That’s downright cheap. Beats the price of scropt Arimidex any day. I don’t know if your insurance covers your scripts or not.

Ask KSMan how to store unused Androgel.

24

Anybody out there know where a guy can get a dr help for HRT in Wisconsin?

25

Inquire in “The over 35 lifter” forum. They will porbably have an idea or two…

26

Wow what an F-ing mess this is. Lets try to take this a step at a time.

  1. Endos are useless unless you have diabetes.

  2. You’re to young to need Androgel or T cyp. At 22 you should start with maybe 250iu of HCG every other day accompanied by 1/4mg of Arimidex. Run labs in 6 weeks and see where that gets you. Fine tune it based on those labs. That eliminates the T all over the map problem.

  3. I may have missed this in your post but why is your prolactin all over the place? Has that been determined? It sounds like a very small dose of Dostinex will clear that up. Lower than the .5mg a week you were on.

Personally I would attack these issues one at a time. At your age the T/E2 issue should be easy to square away with HCG and Arimidex so start there. Once that’s stable focus on to the next issue.

It blows to have to deal with this at your age and to compound that conventional doctors are totally useless with these issues. It requires more than 5 seconds of thought and a handful of pills so they don’t want to deal with it. You’ll find help here and do as KSman suggests. You’ll find a lot of help on these issues in the over 35 forum.

27

Alright Fellas, So I apologize for the lack of updates but this experience has been really stressful and time consuming… Most recently, I was given androgel 5g with no AI after my labs from back in November december and Febuary 09 showed a decline in TOTAL TEST from (460 > 340 > 240).

What is interesting is I have test dating back to 06 where my PROLACTIN was 39 ( 5-18) and my ESTRADIOL was 44 ( 8- 40) and my test was 560! funny thing it was higher with higher estrogen and prolactin gets me? haha BTW Im turing 23 this month!

My ESTROGEN and PROLACTIN has always been HIGH normal… After doing CABERGOLINE with my original endo for some time and succesfully lowering my so called prolactinoma to normal ranges a year has went by without being on Cabergoline and the prolactin has tappered down to normal ranges… but the E2 has still been in the 39-45 range ( 15-50).

I was shoveled ANDRGOGEL 5g with no ai by my new doc and told to return in 3 months… I decided to take the script and situation to my old doctor who i no showed a few times… He issued me a script for 1mg arimidex daily, which thanks to ksman I learned how to find my own sweet spot… ( the way i did that was by snapping my fingers and journaling my daily erections)

So my original doctor said I should pick one endo and not bounce around and if i was going to come back to the clinic then he wanted me to do a full panel before starting it to have an even more accurate point and to take a $4,000 sleep apnea test which came out with mild sleep apnea so i have to purchase a mask now and supposely through very small medical literature it is associated with Low T. So i did!

I also took a daily journal if anyone has questions about the whole experience. The Test read as :

3-23-09 ( the day before starting androgel,yes before)
Estrogen 31 (8-45)
Testoterone Free and Total 546 ( 250-1100) was 240 2 months prior?
Free TEST % 2.91 H ref range ( 1.5- 2.2) How can this be so high?
FSH 3.7 ( 1.6-8.0)
LH 6.5 (1.5-9.3)
Prolactin 12.3 ( 2-18)
IGF-I 194 (126-382)
T4,Free 1.2 (.8-1.8)
TSH 3rd Generation 2.56 ( .40-4.50)

One month on andrgoel 7.5G and 10g for the last week: he only tested for a few things
4-27-09
TEST FREE 140.2 ( 35-155)
TEST TOTAL 600 ( 250-1100)
ESTRADIOL 16 ( 13-54)

So looking at the test,
I can see that E2 sucessfully went down and yes at one point when i was taking .5 arimidex E3d i was geting some gyno and lots of water bloat hot flashes too so i uped it to .5 ED and felt hella good I also raised my dose of androgel from 5g to 7.5g in 3 days then after three weeks raied it to 10g for the last week…

FREE TEST went down? and TOTAL T went up 50? THE THING THAT IS KINDA INTERESTING IS THE ENDO DID NOT TELL ME TO TAKE THE TEST WITHIN 4-6 HOURS OF APPLICATION. I ENDED UP TAKING THE BLOOD TEST 16 HOURS AFTER APPLYING ALMOST A WHOLE DAY WENT BY AND IT WAS STILL 600!!!

SO DO YOU GUYS THINK WE COULD ASSUME THAT WITHIN 4-6 HOURS THE TOTAL T WAS ACTUALLY HIGHER THEN 600 say maybe 800-900?? I HEARD IT TAPERS DOWN JUST LIKE OUR NATURAL PRODUCTION DOES THROUGHTOU THE DAY???

MY SMALL EXPERIENCE:

The whole month I really didnt feel too much different but the last week I started geting some real good erections and I did get stronger and less passive, moody, watery until uped AI, btw I am a TRAINER and I pay great attention and record any kind of changed date…

I feel like i did notice when the agel tappered down towards the next day application I feel that it took 3-4weeks just to feel decent. There was alot of brain fog towards teh beging and I was out trying to find the sweet spot of AI and TRT together… I started feeling best after raising my AI to .5 every day and doing 7.5-10 gs agel daily.

My daily application finally got on a consistent schedule which I believe helped with the feeling I had as well as the surgical glove used to adminster the gel. Rub to spread then let dry from wet is the correct directions i believe. I was given the scrit origially for 5g androgel with no AI by the get out of my office in 1 min doctor(new) and i raised my dosages to 7.5 which ran out in 2 weeks.

Luckily Insurance covered me and I was able to get a refill for the following 2 weeks. THe new doctor felt that my pretreatment test was good enough to get off androgel for now… He did not say to not take the arimidex. I believe that this increase in T might have arose from the arimidex effects itself IM not sure?

He does not know why I was tested for total t 240 in feb then in 2 months raised to 546… Said it could be a life style change? So I am off the AGEL and I FEEL LIKE SHIT lol DUDE I MEAN I FEEL LIKE SHIT. I have no will to workout, I have bad brain fog and confusion, my Madden skillz suck asss now lol…

I have NO LIBIDO and of course I bet its cuz my HPTA isnt functioning as it should…or KSMAN that my E2 is wiped out because the AGEL isnt eleveating my levels so E2 drops… THE DOCTOR SAID NO PCT OR ANYTHING IS NECESSARY THAT WITHIN A MONTH I SHOULD GO BACK TO BEING NORMAL…

WELL I CANT WAIT A MONTH GUYS… I HAVE DONE MY RESEARCH… SPOKE TO MODERATORS… CALLED PHARMASIST… Based off my blood work how should I handle this problem?

  1. take HCG for a month > Then CLomid 15 days > Nolva 15 days
  2. since this is like doing a mild small cycle should i just take CLOMID for month?
  3. Since i still havce AI i should I tapper the dose to .5 e3d and adjust until sweet spot is reached?
  4. Should I wait til the 14th of MAy when insurance kicks back in Taking androgel 7.5G and schedule an apt with the original doc who threw it at me…
  5. Should I stay on Ai, Schedule an apt with doc, demand for protocol to come off AGEL and demand HCG?
    6.Being that my TOTAL T levels were 600 15 hours after application, should I assume that within 4-8 hours I was at really HIGH NORMAL LEVELS
28

T levels do vary through the day with transdermals… a good thing.

When you were increasing t-gel, your adex needs were increasing. When you reduce or stop TRT, you need to reduce adex. You can’t get things right with moving targets.

I had trouble finding my way through your doctor stories. You need a steady dose and labs based on steady doses.

You did not show FT in your March labs.

Right now life is hell and its hard to know if you are also having problems with E that is too low. Get adex down to 0.5mg/week.

PCT: One SERM is as good as another other than side effects. Use low dose adex all through your PCT and for a while after that.

In your current state, I don’t know if adex will yield a sweet spot.

You may not get hCG. You had better have some logic and dosing in mind. If doc goes with large dose hCG, suggest that you think about lower dosing.

I think that you are a poster child for not burning trough your Rx T.

29

[quote]MaddyD wrote:
I have nothing to add, as it seems like you are in wonderful hands with BBB and Ksman. these 2 are smarter than any doc I have ever came across.
just wanted to say welcome.

and I would go a low dose of the arimidex.
try .25-.5mg (about half a pill) every day.
see how you feel.

shouldn’t really be a need for a gram a day but everyone is different.[/quote]
lol WOW…months later and I realize how I mess up

I mean 1mg not 1 gram lol sorry ya no one ever ever needs 1 gram of adex thats some heavy shit
my bad guys

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thanks thanks

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hey guys I know AverageSuperman in real life. He’s a cool dood with some problems that have stumped me. I told him to come here and ask all of you for your thoughts since I’ve found this place to be one of the more knowledgable sites around.

Good luck man and clear out the squat rack for me today, it’s leg day. LOL

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Dirty Gerdy I better see 4 Wheels! Indeed brother thanks

33

After talking with you man, getting back on the gel might be the best thing as of now. If you felt great on the gel then it was obviously needed. If you notice that something isn’t right off of the gel then you did need it.

I vote for stay on the agel and find another doc.

Worst case scenario you stay on trt which doesn’t sound like the best option, but at least it’s an option that will allow you to live a normal life.

35

well insurance just kicked back in today so i picked up the androgel. One of doctors doesnt believe I need it because the labs posted above showed I was 540 total T before treatment with 7.5 agel… Weird huh? I was at 240 total T a month half prior… sooo one month and half on the agel got my total T to 600 from 540 and lowered my free T to 140 from 150… btw i did the test after 16 hours of puting the application on… I bet if i would have done the test within 6-8 hours i would have tested higher…you think?