First Post, First Cycle

Pharma
1

After spending a few months looking around all the bodybuilding/muscle/training websites I have decided to join the T-Nation community.

I have been training consistently for atleast 4 years maybe 5. I am 25 years old, 5’9 inches and close to 200lb with a bodyfat of 12% (will be closer to 10% before cycle).

I have been researching on the net for a few months. I have long passed my oral only cycle fetish and am thinking about doing a test enth/winstrol cycle in the future.

This is the cycle plan
W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 7-10 Winstrol 50mg ED

I have lots of nolva on hand and for PCT.

I will be purchasing a-dex for during my cycle (running at newbie cycle thread dose) and possibly some HCG for mid to end 2re-start my balls. Is HCG really 100% necessary as I will avoid use if I can?

I will post up my training and diet but I wasnt sure wether to do that in this thread as I am completely new to forums.

Any advice would be appreciated

2

Decent cycle layout. hCG is not really necessary, however it will speed up recovery post cycle.

A few suggestions:

Make it 8 weeks of test E as that is more of an ideal period of time for max gains and easiest recovery. This will also render hCG use even less necessary.

Frontload the test e to get it working faster.

So basically:

W1-8: Test e 250mg E3D (frontload 670 mg on Day 1 of cycle followed by 250 mg E3D to cycle end)

W5-8: Winstrol 50mg/d

W1-10: Adex 0.25/d (adjust up or down according to how you react - see below)

Increase Adex if elevated estrogen symptoms present (bloating, sensitive nipples, poor libido, hightened emotions)

Decrease Adex if too low estrogen symptoms present (achy joints, poor libido, cranky morale, fuzzy mental clarity)

Maintain dose if libido and mental clarity are good.

W11-14 PCT: Nolva W1: 40mg/d W2: 40mg/d W3; 20mg/d W4: 20mg/d

(start PCT 2 weeks after your last injection of test e as it takes that long for your serum level to fall adequately to allow Nolva to do its job)

Note: You probably want to split the fronload of test e into two sites for comfort. Too much volume in one site (espescially virgin muscles) can be problematic.

3

Cheers Dynamo v helpful.

However seems to me that most people suggest a longer cycle for test e, especially for a first time user. In terms of front loading, as a first timer, injecting 250mg is going to be daunting enough, let alone 335mg in each glute :S Although I will consider it.

No one has point me in the right direction about where to post my diet and workout so I guess I will post it here.

Diet
Pro/Carbs (BREAKFAST)
30g W Protein Isol
8 Egg W 2 Whole
1 cup Oatmeal

80g P/103g C/15g F

Pro/Fat (SNACK)
Lean Protein 40g Pro
Almonds
Slices of Cheese

50g P/

Pro/Carbs (PRE WORKOUT)
30g W Protein Isol
Bannana

Pro/Hi Gi Carbs (POST WORKOUT)
50g W Protein Hydrol
Double ammount of
Waxy Maize Starch
100g

Pro/Hi Gi Carb/Fat (PPWO MEAL)
50 g Lean Protein
Rice/Potato
Salad- Olive oIl (6 Tbps)
Cheese

Pro/Fat (DINNER)
40g Lean Meat
Salad
Vege

Pro/Fat (BEFORE BED)
40 g Casein Protein
Peanut Butter
Flax Oil

Gave up on macronutrient breakdowns but will workout to about 1.5g protein/lb bodyweight, 2g carbs/lb bodyweight and .5g fat/lb.

Basically 40/50/10 P/C/F
Calories: 4000+ (need to do a few BMR calcs to work out calories needed and will work from there).

The Workout
I am still not quite there on the workout I intend to do. But what I have planned so far has greatly been ‘copied & pasted’ from the slingshot training technique (look it up).

My main goal is to gain lean bulk, whilst staying as light on my feet as possible, therefore I will be doing a bit of sprint training thorughout my cycle.

Heres what the workout looks like.

Day 1:
Chest: Incline Bench 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
Shoulders: 45 Lat Raise 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
Tricep: 1 Arm Pressdown 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
Lat Width: CG Pulldowns 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
Bicep: Preacher Curls 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
Brach: Hammer Curls 1 x 12

Day 3:
Cl: Seated C Raises 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
BL: Deadlift 4 x (8, 6, 8, 12)
RD: Reverse Flyes 1 x 12
Tr: DB Shrugs 1 x 15
Q: Leg Presses 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
H: Leg Curls 1 x 15

Day 5:
C: Flat Bench 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
S: Barbell Press 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
T: Tricep Extension 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
LW: Pull Ups 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
B: DB Curls 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
Br: Hammer Curls 1 x 12

Day 8:
Cl: Stand Calve Raises 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
LT: Barbell Rows 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
RD: Reverse Flyes 1 x 12
Tr: DB Shrugs 1 x 15
Q: Squats 4 x (12, 8, 8, 6)
H: Leg Curls 1 x 15

Day 10: REPEAT DAY 1 and so on…

Is this enough volume for a cycle, or does anyone have any more workouts that would be better suited for achieveing a lean bulk, focusing on size and power.

4

I hear you on the fear of injecting larger volumes. I still think 8 weeks is the way to go. Remember, 8 weeks of test e = 10 weeks of suppression. 10 weeks of test e = 12 weeks of suppression. Even a non-frontloaded 8 weeker with test e will give you great results with speedy recovery.

5

can some1 critque my diet/training if poss
thx

6

I would disagree with dynamo and run it for 10 or 12 weeks for a couple of reasons

1.you only get 1 first test cycle and so i would make the most of it and aim for 30-40 lbs

2.you will gain easier on this cycle than on following cycles

3.test e takes a few weeks to reach optimum blood levels so cutting off your cycle at 8 weeks means ul only be at max levels about 5 weeks

4.if your reasonably healthy your balls will bounce back quickly enough even after a 12 week cycle

if i were running it for only 8 weeks id be tempted to run about 750mg per week for dramatic results

7

Try the nutrition and supplementation sections and the bodybuilding sections…

On a first look i would suggest you could increase the frequency of workouts. You do:

on/off/on/off/on/off/off/on/off/off/repeat is very low frequency, especially with a 2 day split - which is basically what you do - 3x a week training using a 2 day split is only training the full body 1.5x/wk.

When using a 2 day split, 4x a week would be a minimum you could do - especially on AAS.
Shit, even without AAS at your age and stats you could increase workload somewhat IMO.

I generally do ‘two on, one off’, and if i am not working i can do upto ‘5 on, one off’ whilst on cycle.

As for the volume, take chest for example, at 4 sets per workout, and the frequency you have, at the most you do 8 sets a week and sometimes only 4… do you use intensity techniques/HIT type of training system? If so then this volume and frequency is fine and i could see it working for a while, if not i would suggest you increase the work.

Read some articles on training programs, as i think there are quite a number of points that could be improved - but stuff i am not excited at the prospect of going over with you.

The food looks fine, it looks a far cry from 4000kcals however, but one never knows.
It is clean (apart from cheese) but your protein could be improved, even using the full weight of meat as the estimated protein content (which isnt the protein content at all) it all comes to 280grams of ‘protein’.
You are 200lbs and could shoot for 400grams when on cycle easily.
Make sure to reduce calories from other groups though if lean mass is your goal and you want no fat.

As for the carb/fat content - it is upto you - as you know which you respond to the best, high fat or high carb dietary needs.

The cycle - i would use winstrol at 75-100mg and i would use it for 6 weeks too. 50mg a day wont be noticed with just under 600mg of test a week.
I would also make sure to have arimidex at the higher end of the spectrum as water and fat will be apparent with a test cycle IME. I find Testosterone one of the ‘sloppiest’ gainers and this is most evident when it is used alone (or with winstrol for 3 weeks!).

JMO

Good luck, Just make sure to utilise the protein synthesis with as much hard training as possible and plenty of whole proteins.

Brook

8

I agree and disagree with dynamo and ironmike. They both make vaild points, however I think most of us have found diminishing returns when pushing out to 12 weeks with test. Having said that, everyone is different with how they respond.

OP, I would suggest having enough on hand for 10 to 12 weeks, but plan an 8 week cycle. I’ve found that frontloading test e I felt the effects by the second week. If you find this to be the case and by eight weeks have hit your goals then stop there so your recovery will be quicker. If, however, you still feel left wanting then run it longer as your first cycle is your best.

Others can chime in, but I believe that Hcg would be neccessary if running 12 weeks?

Just my two cents…

9

[quote]fireflyz wrote:
I agree and disagree with dynamo and ironmike. They both make vaild points, however I think most of us have found diminishing returns when pushing out to 12 weeks with test. Having said that, everyone is different with how they respond.

OP, I would suggest having enough on hand for 10 to 12 weeks, but plan an 8 week cycle. I’ve found that frontloading test e I felt the effects by the second week. If you find this to be the case and by eight weeks have hit your goals then stop there so your recovery will be quicker. If, however, you still feel left wanting then run it longer as your first cycle is your best.

Others can chime in, but I believe that Hcg would be neccessary if running 12 weeks?

Just my two cents…[/quote]

maybe split the differnce then and go for 10 weeks ?

i just think 8 is a bit short for a long ester cycle and especially for a first cycle

i know on my first cycle test cycle i gained well past the 8th week so if i stopped at 8 weeks i would have lost out on some gains

10

In the spirit of compromise, that was a good suggestion to have enough on hand for a 10 weeker, then gauge how you feel after 8 weeks. If you feel like you are still making great progress. tack on a couple of extra weeks.

11

Well as you can probably tell, there are certain themes and practices here that differ from other sites, one of them being that it’s better to run cycles shorter, recover fully, and get in one additional cycle per year. A big picture perspective.

I have my theories about first cycle response versus subsequent cycles and there is some validity in trying to max out initial gains by going a little bit longer. In the long run though, I think the difference will be relatively small.

Training-wise, a two-way split three times a week isn’t as soft as Brook puts it, imo. The basic DC template does that, for example, albeit with more intense rest-pause worksets. I know that the slingshot thing is making the rounds. If you’re an adherent, well, give it a go I guess. I read a small part of a thread sometime ago and the way that it was written up, well, it just didn’t work for me. Seemed like an ad I guess.

For traps you do db shrugs twice. Why not do BB shrugs on the day that you DL, to change up the angle of attack a bit? You can easily do them right after DLs if you want.

Same with your hams. Leg curls are fine, but GMs, GHRs, Romanian DLs, reverse hypers… are all good and incorporate a nice range of movement.

More than I planned on writing. Good luck.