Or should I use hCG instead of Proviron and/or Adex?
[quote] Brook wrote:
The Tren Ace and Hexa detection times seemed mixed up to me - they ARE the same numbers all over the net, but it also looks like each site has gotten the information from the same source too…
Tren Acetate at 4-5 months and Tren Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate at 4-5 weeks suggests that is is related to the metabolism of the Acetate ester, as the only thing that differs between the two is that…
Now seeing as they don’t test for the ester itself, it must be that something about the Acetate esters metabolism allows metabolites of the attached drug (in this case Trenbolone) to be detected significantly longer than the Hexahydro ester does.
Now - the question is (apart obviously from the numbers being plain wrong) is this drug specific or ester specific?
Does the ester react with Trenbolone specially, making it detectable for longer or is it that the ester has this effect on any attached steroid molecule?
I cannot find the numbers for Test A, but logic suggests that as a shorter chain than propionate, detection should be shorter too.
Bill? WHB?[/quote]
Hmmm, maybe it could be because it’s a derivate from nandrolone and has lipophilic properties, which makes them detectable for a longer period because they store in fat cells. I think Hex should thereby have an even longer detection period, 4-5 weeks for Hex has to be bullshit.
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate also has a long detection time despite it’s short ester, so it’s all probably a result of being a nadrolone derivative then?
In any case, I do not feel like risking it.
[quote]Juggernaut34 wrote:
Brook wrote:
The Tren Ace and Hexa detection times seemed mixed up to me - they ARE the same numbers all over the net, but it also looks like each site has gotten the information from the same source too…
Tren Acetate at 4-5 months and Tren Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate at 4-5 weeks suggests that is is related to the metabolism of the Acetate ester, as the only thing that differs between the two is that…
Now seeing as they don’t test for the ester itself, it must be that something about the Acetate esters metabolism allows metabolites of the attached drug (in this case Trenbolone) to be detected significantly longer than the Hexahydro ester does.
Now - the question is (apart obviously from the numbers being plain wrong) is this drug specific or ester specific?
Does the ester react with Trenbolone specially, making it detectable for longer or is it that the ester has this effect on any attached steroid molecule?
I cannot find the numbers for Test A, but logic suggests that as a shorter chain than propionate, detection should be shorter too.
Bill? WHB?
Hmmm, maybe it could be because it’s a derivate from nandrolone and has lipophilic properties, which makes them detectable for a longer period because they store in fat cells. I think Hex should thereby have an even longer detection period, 4-5 weeks for Hex has to be bullshit.
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate also has a long detection time despite it’s short ester, so it’s all probably a result of being a nadrolone derivative then?
In any case, I do not feel like risking it.
[/quote]
Trenbolone isn’t derived from Nandrolone, but from nor-Testosterone, as is Nandrolone.
But as i said, the drug is clearly a factor in detection time, although what you said relating to nandrolones lipophilic properties AFAIK isn’t the case.
If however it was JUST that and carbon length, then the detection time for Hex would match or likely exceed that of Acetate. There are more elements in an ester than carbon though; carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, and a different configuration of two esters of the exact same atom count and weight can affect the half life of the parent compound.
Nandrolone is detectable for a long time, but the point is that the hex isn’t detectable for as long as the Ace - the same drug is used so it must be something at it relates to the ester.
This is akin to NPP being detectable longer than Deca, which IMO would point to an action of the Phenylpropionate ester extending metabolite life of nandrolone even further than basic deesterification allows.
IIRC T and its related AAS have poor solubility in oil, and it is the ester which allows this to the degree necessary, as is the case with Nandrolone (Decanoate), with the drug having metabolites that do linger for a long time anyway - the decanoate etser allows them to redice in the adipose tissue longer than they would have naturally (of course).
With the other more common esters, i have studied their make-up to some small extent, but i have little idea about Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate, maybe some sort of configuration and deviant of hexanoic acid. But i do think it is a mistake, the length of time given being so significantly longer than the lightest and lowest count of esters used (and with the same parent drug).
It is a fascinating subject.
wow, Brook, I am in awe. Every time I read a post where you write something, I can’t keep admiring the dedication you have to the sport… and the patience too!
Keep on postin’, I’ll keep on readin’ !
Good post, Brook.
In any case, I think I’m going for this:
Main Cycle:
W 1-8 Test Prop 100mg ED
W 1-10 Adex .5mg ED
W 1-8 Proviron 25mg 2xED or simply 50mg ED
Orals:
W 4-8 Dianabol 25-30mg/day
or
Anavar 50-60mg/day
I’ll see how I respond to Dianabol, if I get to much water retention and it hampers my sprinting, I think I’m gonna switch to Anavar.
PCT:
Nolvadex 20mg 2xED PCWeek 1+2
20mg ED PCWeek 3+4
What do you think?
Dbol at 25-30mg a day with a good dose of an AI will be very beneficial to your performance and really should not blow you up with unwanted size.
I can’t remember anything about you, your goals, stats or what - and i cant be bothered to re-read the thread, but 700mg of Test is quite high for a first time.
I still cant see why you are adding Proviron to this cycle… But it is upto you and wont HURT things.
I would honestly prefer to run the oral for the duration, whether that is 8 weeks or maybe just 6 (still a very decent length of time on AAS). 8 weeks is not going to kill you, and i either forgot or never knew where the 6 week max thing came from, when rthe studies that caused liver damage in the first place were so much longer than 6 or 8 weeks… i digress.
Essentially the cycle is fine, all i would change are a few minor tweaks that i have learnt along the way, but it will be a good cycle nonetheless.
One last point i notice, you are running the AI 2 weeks beyond the last AAS - what is the reason for this and does this mean PCT will not begin for 2 weeks after the last dose of steroid?
If so, then you should look into the half/active life of Prop and methylated orals (as dbol and proviron are) and compare the findings to the half/active life of Anastrazole.
Yeah, I think I should shoot for maybe 150mg of Test EOD or 75mg ED?
I think I would rather go for 150mg EOD, since I’m gonna be doing lots of hard training (sprinting, olympic lifts, muay thai) and need to decrease the amounts of sore spots on my body as much as I can.
I thought of adding Proviron to just be safe from getting any gynecomastia and because it adds to the androgenic side of it all. Maybe it’s overkill, I’ll just scrap it then. It’s a banned substance and has a fairly long detection time anyways.
I might go for Dianabol W 3-8. Maybe I should do it early in my cycle for it to be gone from my system faster so I’m safer off as far as testing positive in a drug test goes.
Maybe I should go for Dbol the first 3 weeks and Anavar for the last 5?
Doing Orals for 8 weeks in that sense wouldn’t be as hard on the liver as Dbol would be for 8 weeks, since Anavar is much milder. then I’m sure to have all the drugs out of system when I get home so I won’t have to be suspicious and stay away from organized practices for long. What are your thoughts on that?
Somehow I was thinking of continuing the Adex during the first weeks of the PCT (I start PCT after week 8), but on second thought I think that it might inhibit estrogen too much. After all, PCT is about stabilizing hormone levels, and reducing estrogen levels by too much wouldn’t exactly be beneficial, since we also need a certain amount of estrogen in our bodies.
So maybe it’ll be optimal like this:
Main Cycle:
W 1-8 Test Prop 150mg EOD or 75mg ED
W 1-8 Adex .5mg ED
Orals:
W 3-8 or 1-6 Dianabol 25-30mg/day
or
W 1-3 30mg/day Dbol W 4-8 40-50mg/day Anavar
PCT:
Nolvadex 20mg 2xED PCWeek 1+2
20mg ED PCWeek 3+4
I’m unsure what to do on the issue with the orals. Any good insight would be much appreciated.
The things to keep in mind is: I get drug tested regularly back home and I’m ending my AAS cycle 3-4 weeks before I head back home from Thailand. I’m looking to get as much strength as possible from the cycle, strength I can maintain as much as possible of after going off. Muscle mass and weight is very much welcomed, but not so much a top priority.
Aren’t you concerned that you will have a test as soon as you return seeing as Thailand is synonymous with Anabolic Steroids?
If i were your coach (and wanted to ensure any using athletes were dropped before national tests) i would.
[quote] Brook wrote:
Aren’t you concerned that you will have a test as soon as you return seeing as Thailand is synonymous with Anabolic Steroids?
If i were your coach (and wanted to ensure any using athletes were dropped before national tests) i would.[/quote]
Lifting is not my main sport, so I don’t get tested as far as that goes unless I’m at a competition. But I won’t be doing any until I’m sure that I’m clean.
As far as football goes, everybody on the team as well as the coaches already think that I’ve been using (even though I haven’t of course), I tell them it’s bullshit and I haven’t, but they don’t care in that sense. Football is a brutal sport, and for many of those that want to get to the next level, steroids are a necessity.
I think doing D-bol for W 1-3 and Anavar for W 4-8 would be a good option, then I’ll be clean before I get off the plane back home, give or take a few days. Shouldn’t be a problem, I’ll stay away from my gym and wear baggy clothes for a while.
I mean, I came back much bigger and stronger after the off-season last summer too, but doping testers didn’t come chase me. Everybody thought I had been using something, but there wasn’t any witch-hunt.
They just come to organized practices, games and competitions.
I think everybody believes that I’ve used, but managed to steer clear of testing positive somehow. Pretty ironic since I haven’t actually done that… yet.
If I do it the way I proposed it above (with the orals), I’m not worried at all whatsoever. Question is if that is doable/necessary. What do you think?
I think starting with Dbol and following up with Var is as good a plan as any, yes.
Not sure what exactly you are asking, but if it is confirmation of it being a sound cycle then you have mine at least!