First Cycle?'s (Enan + Anti-E's)

Pharma / TRT
1

Ok, here’s my stats: 5’10", 180 lbs at 17% bodyfat and am in my mid 20’s.

First off, I have never used 'roids before and I was wanting to try going on a moderately low dose of Test Enanthate together with Proviron and Nolvadex. I’ve got about 4 consecutive years of training under my belt from my late teens to my early twenties but haven’t trained at all in about 3 years. I’ve tried all the usual and semisortasomewhat common training approaches including volume training, HIT, static contraction training, repeated negatives (with assistance from a partner), etc. And here comes the problem: I achieved virtually no gains in muscle\strength at all even with various training\rest\nutrition methods, and thus came to the realization 3 years ago that that would continue to be the case as long as I stayed “natural”. So it was then that I stopped lifting. So now after researching for the last two months or so for about an hour a day on average, I’ve decided to try a cycle. All I’m looking for (at least at the moment) is a moderate enhancement as far as muscle growth goes (mostly for “look” reasons, though strength and feeling good are great too, and I don’t compete in anything, BTW.) and I’m not trying or expecting that there’s any remote sort of chance that I would be able to “get huge” or even get “pretty damn big” off the doseage I’m going to suggest. From the research I’ve done, I find Testosterone Enanthate to be the most appealing because of it’s effects on muscle growth, length of duration, lack of liver toxicity, and side effect profile (I think that the anti-e’s will take care of the estrogenic sides, and thus as far as side effects go, I’m most concerned about restoring my natural Testosterone levels after going off.), and price (including the necessary anti-e’s) being slightly lower for me than Cypionate.

I was thinking of trying a 1 cc amp at 333 mg\ml injected once every 7-10 days. I was also planning on taking 50 milligrams of Proviron and 20 milligrams of Nolvadex on every day of the cycle. Now say that I did this for a handful of weeks to a couple of months in a row and then decided to come off. What if I were to drop the Proviron and Nolvadex down to half starting about 2 weeks after the last injection and continuing at this doseage for another 2 weeks when I’d drop the Proviron comepletely and just continue the Nolvadex at 10 milligrams per day for the next 1-3 weeks or so. Would this be too hard a comedown with my natural Testosterone production inhibited too much? Should I include 50 milligrams of Clomid per day starting about 7-10 days or so after the last injection and let the Clomid “fade in” to my system (because of it’s 5-7 day half-life) as my need for endogenous Testerone production increases and continue with the Clomid for 2-4 weeks? BTW, I’m not interested in using HCG for early PCT since (as far as I “know”) it does nothing for getting your body to naturally increase it’s Testosterone production and only works by it’s own stimulation of the testes to increase production of Testosterone while you’ve still got the HCG in you. Am I obviously crazy\inexperienced\underresearched (like I said, I’ve never tried steroids) enough for hoping\thinking that I could survive early PCT without HCG??? BTW, I don’t think I’d really care too much if my balls shrunk during the cycle (I think…).

Oh, and as far as needles go, I’ve got one question (I plan on using 1.5" needles and injecting into my quads). Is 25 guage too small? I get the impression that most people would say that it is, but I’ve also heard that they are doable but are pushing on being too small. Should I just go with 23 guage then?

Thanks, and I’d appreciate any comments, or suggestions!

2

I dont have enough knowledge on the specifics of your cycle to offer any useful advice, however i do have several comments.
One, i find it hard to believe that you havent been able to make any gains in 3 years. If you really have eaten appropriately, trained hard enough, then i dont see how you havent made any gains.
Additionally, if you are going to go through with this cycle, i think you should go all the way. Your first cycle will be when you make the most gains, why not take advantage of that?

you have clearly done your research on steroids, but i think you should really try to gain more naturally or at least maximaze your cycle. good luck with whatever u decide

3

Steroids increase gains you’d of made naturally. You’re making zero gains, so will see zero benefit. Also, there is no way you’re training/eating properly and making no gains.

4

All the diet and training aside, I assume you are using Iranian Test Enanthate, since the 333mg dose. Why are you using a HRT dose instead of a real dose? I would run 2ml / week and get the full benefit. The proviron is a sound idea, but running proviron on a dose of 333/week seems like a waste of money and of quality gear in my humble opinion.

Do you have someone else to give you the injections? If you do, I would plan on injecting into glutes. It is much harder in my opinion to inject into quads, and there can be complications.

And please bear in mind, gear is not the miracle worker that most people think it is. Your diet, and training, sleep, everything else need to be on point to reap the full benefit of the gear. I would definitely correct those problems, before even taking your first injection.

5

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
All the diet and training aside, I assume you are using Iranian Test Enanthate, since the 333mg dose. Why are you using a HRT dose instead of a real dose? I would run 2ml / week and get the full benefit. The proviron is a sound idea, but running proviron on a dose of 333/week seems like a waste of money and of quality gear in my humble opinion.

Do you have someone else to give you the injections? If you do, I would plan on injecting into glutes. It is much harder in my opinion to inject into quads, and there can be complications.

And please bear in mind, gear is not the miracle worker that most people think it is. Your diet, and training, sleep, everything else need to be on point to reap the full benefit of the gear. I would definitely correct those problems, before even taking your first injection.

[/quote]

Yes, it’s the Iranian Enan. About the recommendation of taking 2 amps a week: My thinking of 1 amp every 7-10 days is just based on what I believe the effects might with that doseage combined with a lack of experience (I’m not expecting a lot off that doseage).

I’ll begin my experience in a few weeks, and I’ll see for myself just what that doseage would do and I’ll make doseage adjustments as I learn. Maybe I’ll gain a few pounds of muscle and lose a few pounds of fat, or maybe I’ll shoot one amp and lose 181 pounds of muscle and gain 200 pounds of fat by the next week. Who knows, I’ll just have to wait and find out.

About your Proviron comment: I meant to ask about the Prov and Nolva doses in my initial post, specifically about whether they were excessively high and whether I should drop them down to 25 mg of Prov and 10 mg of Nolva every day (I see stacks with far more amounts of 'roids with estrogenic sides (like this “Classic Bread and Butter” stack: bodybuilding.com/fun/catsample.htm) that recommend equal to or less anti-e’s than I recommened for even my much lower dose cycle) through to maybe 2 weeks after the last injection when I could just drop the Prov and remain on the Nolva at 10 milligrams per day, maybe with Clomid thrown in.

Like I said above, I’ll learn the doseages from experience, and I’ll have TONS of extra Prov\Nolva on hand (ok, grams) should they be needed. I was just thinking that at least some of an anti-aromatise and an ERA would be a good idea when using Test.

As far as injections go, I don’t know anyone that’s experienced with IM injections, and was planning on doing it myself. Are there any real risks with doing a 1 CC quad shot WHILE FOLLOWING ALL RECOMMENDED INJECTION PROCEDURES that I would get from reading seemingly very thorough “how to inject AAS IM” articles?

I actually think I’m pretty crazy\stupid for thinking of trying it without assistance for the first few times without help from an experienced person. Could you elaborate on the recommendation of doing a Glute injection over a Quad injection? I’d kinda thought that a quad shot might be easier.

Lastly, I’ve got a comment on the “gear is not the miracle worker that most people think it is” comment and the recommendations on correcting my diet, training, sleep, and everything else beforehand.

I tried 4 years of desperately trying to find the correction(s?) to my lack of gains including widely varying training, rest, nutrition, and supplementation styles and eventually came to the (very) steadfast conclusion that I was not going to exceed the very slight gains that I’d made as long as I stayed “natural”.

Who knows, maybe I’ll be extremely disappointed? If so, who really cares??? Just me, and though it’d be some major suckage, it won’t be the end of my world. I’m only hoping for\expecting a slight “enhancement” (at least while I stay with the products I mentioned at the doseages I gave), and to get Test\Prov\Nolva first-hand experience for a while before I’d progress to increased doses and other gear…

6

"As far as injections go, I don’t know anyone that’s experienced with IM injections, and was planning on doing it myself. Are there any real risks with doing a 1 CC quad shot WHILE FOLLOWING ALL RECOMMENDED INJECTION PROCEDURES that I would get from reading seemingly very thorough “how to inject AAS IM” articles?

I actually think I’m pretty crazy\stupid for thinking of trying it without assistance from an experienced person the first time or three. Could you elaborate on the recommendation of doing a Glute injection over a Quad injection? I’d kinda thought that a quad shot might be easier."

Hey man great post and great questions. About the IM injections, ask your mother. I beleive she has experience with this.

I also find it interesting that you have noticed little to no gains. From the sound of it your an intelligent individual so I doubt the no gains would be from your lack of knowledge. Kinda makes me wonder what the reason is.

7

I would take at least 1.5 ml. every 7 days for around 500mg. per week for at least 6-8 weeks. I would also reduce the amount of Proviron by half(take 20-30mgs) and take it sublingually (under tongue) directly after rinsing your mouth with Listerine once per day(this method is more efficient and hence more cost effective).

Take the Proviron during and for 2-3 weeks after the test runs out. Take the Nolvadex the last 2 weeks of enanthate use and run it straight through until you’re done with the Proviron.

8

[quote]benchaffleck wrote:
I would take at least 1.5 ml. every 7 days for around 500mg. per week for at least 6-8 weeks. I would also reduce the amount of Proviron by half(take 20-30mgs) and take it sublingually (under tongue) directly after rinsing your mouth with Listerine once per day(this method is more efficient and hence more cost effective).

Take the Proviron during and for 2-3 weeks after the test runs out. Take the Nolvadex the last 2 weeks of enanthate use and run it straight through until you’re done with the Proviron.[/quote]

I get the impression from your and TrainerinDC’s comments that the amount of test I suggested was too low. I knew that the cycle that I proposed in the first post was definately on the conservative side, but hey, maybe it’s more conservative than I thought.

BTW, it’s not like my proposal of a 333 mg amp every 7-10 days was some hard and steadfast rule that I set for myself and wouldn’t allow myself to break. I was just thinking that AT LEAST FOR THE FIRST FEW WEEKS, I’d probably inject every Friday night after work and that (hopefully) the pain would be slight or pretty much non-existant by work on Monday. In retrospect, I should have said that I planned on injecting exactly every seven days (like I said above, at least for the first few times) moreso for the possibility of post-injection pain and not wanting it to interfere with my job than doseage reasons (although 333 mg\week sounded to me like a good doseage to start off with).

About the Proviron thing: I hadn’t heard about the higher bioavailability thing for sublingual vs swallowed Proviron although I’ve heard about it with other drugs (nicotine, for example). Thanks, I’ll run some Google\forum searches.

9

From everything I’ve read, 333mgs/wk is almost half the recommended dosage, even for a beginner’s cycle.

I’ve only just begun on the same journey, but I’ve done all my shots into the glutes on my own as I don’t have anybody I could ask(ie my girlfriend who would go thru the roof or my lifting partner who would be like,“dude, that’s gay.”) Hardest part is aspirating, but I’ve done 7 glute shots so far and it gets easier and easier. I wouldn’t even consider doing a quad shot unless I was really sticking myself a lot.