Hey all, I had to make an account here just to get advice on this one subject. I’ve never needed to post on ANY bodybuilding forum since it’s easy to search for the info I need and somebody has always already asked whatever question I have.
However, this shit is confusing. I’m cautiously contemplating my first cycle and would appreciate input. Here’s some background.
I’m 37 and have been bodybuilding on & off since I joint the military at 17 (Delayed entry program in 1999). My only experience with any kind of steroid was when I was 18 and used andro & ephedra. I was stupid, caused a ridiculous amount of tendinitis/tenfonipothy, stress fractures in my forearms and actually tore my left rotator cuff, resulting in 2 years of rehab. Ouch!
Only in the last few years have I been really serious about my bodybuilding hobby, logging everything I eat & lift and never missing gym days, even on vacation. I’m a tiny boned/framed ecto that was 5’10’ & 119lbs when I joined the military.
I peaked at 165lbs with next to no body fat and definitely turned heads looking like a semi bulky Bruce Lee. However, now I’ve hit a wall, can’t pack on any more mass, and my body fat hit approx. 12% while trying to up the diet to get more muscle. I cut back down to 160lbs and approx. 6% bf, which is where I’m at now.
I’m contemplating 8 weeks on 250mg testosterone cycpionate/wk and .5mg anastrozole daily, but have absolutely no idea what I’m doing. I was thinking test since it’s mild and generally well tolerated from my research. Is the AI dose appropriate and necessary? What do I do for PCT? Comments or criticisms that helps?
You didn’t have to say the second part. It was kind of obvious after reading the first part.
It’s good that you’re on here looking for information, but you should do some research first. I say this because your question has been answered ~42,000 times on this sight. Enough in fact that there are stickies made specifically addressing this question.
What you’re looking for is a basic first cycle. It’s 500mg test e or c per week for 8,10,12 weeks. AI dosed as necessary but never preemptively higher than the minimum effective dose. PCT has also been addressed in the stickies. Read up on everything and if you are unsure of something feel free to ask specific questions. Everyone here will help you, but you have to help yourself first.
Thanks. AI dosed as necessary based on blood work or symptoms? I was under the impression it would be profilactic. Yes, I’ve read soooo much on PCT and that’s the problem. It’s just information overload at this point. One guy says one thing, another says something contradictory, then it’s different based on what gear you’re taking and for how long and lab work and on and on ad infinitum. To the point I just said fuck it and made a profile on here. However, I do appreciate what you’re saying about spoon feeding so I’ll post up my proposed PCT after some more reading and let you guys pick at it. Thanks for the help!
I edited my post because it was unnecessarily snarky. I didn’t mean for it to come off the way it did, so hopefully you can take the new post as constructive.
Pct should be straightforward, but the debate is always between one SERM vs two SERMs. I’m on the side of less-is-more. Four weeks on Nolva dosed at 40/40/20/20 has worked for a lot of men over the years. Nolva also has a lower incidence of side effects when compared to Clomid. But if you choose a two-SERM pct you will likely have a better (statistical) chance of recovery than if you take one. Is it worth the added side effects? You won’t know until it’s over.
As far as AI is concerned, go to the TRT forum and read the post titled “All you AI preachers” (or something along those lines) and see what hat debate looks like.
I had labs pulled for a bunch of stuff today, including Testosterone, to get a baseline. I’ll post up the results as soon as they come in. Is there anything I should specifically look for before starting a cycle?
Free test, SHBG, total test, e2, cholesterol, rbc, hematocrit, etc. When you get the results and post them you’ll get some feedback regarding what they’re saying and what it means for your cycle.
You didn’t test your SHBG but its likely low which is why your Free T is so high. That also means if you go with exogenous test you will need to inject frequently. You have good natural levels, why mess with your HPTA for three months of gains that you will likely lose anyway… unless you keep on cycling.
It could just be genetics barring any liver issues. Guys on the TRT forum have been trying to find ways to control SHBG for years but you basically can’t do it. Anabolics have a tendency to lower SHBG, some more than others.
Where I’m at now, I feel waaaay stuck, like I never have before. After a lifetime of lifting with only the last few years being in serious hobby territory, I feel like it’s ending because I can’t progress! Like there’s nothing left to do if that makes sense.
Diet is on point. If I up the calories and protein, I just put on fat and don’t lift more (first time in my life I’ve ever actually been able to put fat on!)
I’ve changed my routine countless times without result. I’m at the limit where more just nets me overtraining symptoms. Now, I’m just about 90% grueling compound movements since iso did jack for me.
I take a ridiculous amount of otc supplements daily, and always get my sleep in.
So is this really just it unless I take something stronger? I’ve read conflicting reports as to whether or not an AI or SERM alone makes any difference. Any other options I’m missing with my inexperience? Thanks guys!
You’re 37 and have been working out for 20+ years. Basically the same as me. I’m 36 and I’ve been at the gym 4-5 days a week for 20+ years. Unlike most, I have never gone through a period of time where I quit my routine. I’ve been dedicated. Point being… progress at the gym is VERY SLOW and that’s normal. We are not spring chickens but we’re not old either. You just plateau. You need to change your training often, focus on diet, and you will make some slow gains.
There are currently WAY to many people on here seeking AAS that have no business using them. They are not magic. Sure you will build muscle and break through your plateau but unless you intend on keep using them I’ve found many users end up in a worse place then before they started.
dude, you’re 160 lbs. you’re barely bigger than the stick figure I just drew on my desk. you seriously think you’ve reached your natural potential?
it’s not. My best guess is that you’re trying to simultaneously grow and keep your bodyfat in the single digits. That doesn’t work for most people, especially at your age. If you really wanna put some more muscle on, you’re probably going to have to tolerate carrying a little bit of fat for some time, in order to reach long-term goals.
you probably feel overtrained because again, you’re staying too lean. Staying in the 6-8% bodyfat range can be hell on your joints, and overall feeling of well being.
so you’re also a sucker for marketing then. Most supplements are useless. There are less than 5 or 6 I’d even consider investing in.
it would not.
a 250mg /week cycle would also be a poor choice. I’d go with 500 or higher, given your T-levels currently. 700+ at your age is fucking fantastic. It’s a shame you want to use steroids. You’re gonna end up on needles for the rest of your life when you didn’t have to.
Look, given your high testosterone level, and the fact that you’re stuck at 160 lbs, it’s clear you don’t have diet figured out. Taking steroids isn’t going to fix that. And unless you’re planning on competing in bodybuilding in untested federations, I wouldn’t go the steroid route at all. Have you even tried competing in a tested contest? The problem with taking steroids is that you’ll be up against some absolute monsters. The competition is so much better when you eliminate testing. You’ll have to add A TON of muscle to be competitive. At your height, in an untested fed, you’ll need to be stepping on stage at 190+, and that’s really on the low end. In natural contests, the threshold is much lower.
Balance of probabilities. We know that x% of people will respond poorly to either one of those two drugs, but they are unlikely to be poor responders to both of them. Though similar in action they are different enough that they both exist within the medical community and serve different goals in therapeutic settings. So statistically you’d have a higher rate of success with both than with one. Is it a significant difference? No idea. But that wasn’t quite the point of what’s i was saying.
As I’ve understood it, the drugs don’t interact favorably with each other. So that’s why I asked. I don’t think your assessment here takes that potential into account.
The Clomid on its own doesn’t appear to be all that pleasant. It’s why I think Nolva is generally the way to go. But Clomid is also the SERM that’s exclusively used in monotherapy as an alternative to TRT, so there has to be enough of a body of research to justify it as a treatment.
I think it’s difficult to gauge how the two interact with regards to side effects felt. The people who are using those two drugs in combination are guys coming off of a cycle. I don’t know of any medical condition that calls for the use of both simultaneously (maybe there’s some specific breast cancer that has a two-SERM protocol, so don’t hold me to that). So if the population of users is entirely made up of men with a shut down HTPA then which side effects can be attributed to the drugs and which to the state of unwellness of the user? We have thousands of anecdotes but very little in the way of solid science. So we’re forced to make educated guesses, right?
Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, stuck at 160, 41lbs heavier than when I was 18, even at the same fat%, so I know at least it’s true gains. I got to 165, but it was all fat, with no strength increase. If I’m not at my genetic potential, that’s great, but I definitely need to figure out the issues because I’m still stuck.
What would you recommend for diet? I do mass(lbs) in protein per day, mass x 2 in carbs per day, focus on healthy fats and stay hydrated enough that I pee almost clear. Lots of salmon, chicken, beef for protein. TONS of simple sugars for easy carbs if I’m already full.
What are the supplements you would recommend? I use pre jym (definitely works since I’m useless without the caffeine), Creatine, Calcium, d3, b12, melatonin, vita jym, ZMA, ON weight gainer. That’s all I can think of right now
Here’s a recent pic for reference. I don’t have any great pics. Also no plans of competing. It’s just for me & the wifey. Thanks again
Thanks. That’s amazing you’ve always trained! Your thoughts mirror flipcollar so it looks like I need a careful re-evaluation of my diet since my routine changes constantly.
