First Cycle: Advice Appreciated

Pharma / TRT
1

Im starting my first cycle. I only post seeking advice from the users on this board instead of just going for it because these arent substances one should take lightly. My biggest concern is my PCT, and whether my worries about side effects from Clomid are worth going for Nolvadex, which is much more costly than Clomid from my current sources, and if the planned schedule is acceptable.

I also have toned down the cycle compared to most I have seen, and am considering lowering Dianabol from 7 to 5 weeks or less. I want to gain (who doesnt?) but I also want to minimize the risk of stretch marks as my body could respond better than I had planned.

Finally, are the constraints of over training significantly lifted with the planned cycle?

WK 1-10 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg E3D (500mg Per Week)
WK 1-7 Dianabol 40mg ED (280mg Per Week)

PCT: 3 days after last injection.
WK 11: Testosterone Enanthate 70mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 12: Testosterone Enanthate 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 13: Testosterone Enanthate 30mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 14: 20mg Nolvadex 20mg ED

Total Supplements
Testosterone Enanthate: 6,050mg
Dianabol: 1,960mg
Nolvadex: 560mg (440mg to spare in case of Gynecomastia)

About: Ive been lifting for 3+ years, the last two of which I have been serious, dedicated, and smart. Since Ive started my bench max has risen from 115lbs to 255lbs, my weight fell from a fat 235 to a bone thin 160, and is currently up to a reasonably solid 201. Im 70 inches, 22 years old.

Am I a newbie? If thats judged by forum posts alone than by all means I am, but if you mean do I know my way around the gym and kitchen then Im not. I only say this because I expect the avalanche of flame posts to a 22yo first time poster, worst of all on the topic of steroids. It seems as though I see a first time user getting kicked in the teeth almost every week here.

I only post here because I respect the opinions of JJ, Cortez, and Bushido to name a few, and even more so some of the veterans that have left the boards. If I didnt still respect the opinions of those on the steroid board I wouldnt bother asking for the communitys advice. But I do, and here I am.

2

[quote]championrugby wrote:
Im starting my first cycle. I only post seeking advice from the users on this board instead of just going for it because these arent substances one should take lightly. My biggest concern is my PCT, and whether my worries about side effects from Clomid are worth going for Nolvadex, which is much more costly than Clomid from my current sources, and if the planned schedule is acceptable.

I also have toned down the cycle compared to most I have seen, and am considering lowering Dianabol from 7 to 5 weeks or less. I want to gain (who doesnt?) but I also want to minimize the risk of stretch marks as my body could respond better than I had planned.

Finally, are the constraints of over training significantly lifted with the planned cycle?

WK 1-10 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg E3D (500mg Per Week)
WK 1-7 Dianabol 40mg ED (280mg Per Week)

PCT: 3 days after last injection.
WK 11: Testosterone Enanthate 70mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 12: Testosterone Enanthate 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 13: Testosterone Enanthate 30mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 14: 20mg Nolvadex 20mg ED

Total Supplements
Testosterone Enanthate: 6,050mg
Dianabol: 1,960mg
Nolvadex: 560mg (440mg to spare in case of Gynecomastia)

About: Ive been lifting for 3+ years, the last two of which I have been serious, dedicated, and smart. Since Ive started my bench max has risen from 115lbs to 255lbs, my weight fell from a fat 235 to a bone thin 160, and is currently up to a reasonably solid 201. Im 70 inches, 22 years old.

Am I a newbie? If thats judged by forum posts alone than by all means I am, but if you mean do I know my way around the gym and kitchen then Im not. I only say this because I expect the avalanche of flame posts to a 22yo first time poster, worst of all on the topic of steroids. It seems as though I see a first time user getting kicked in the teeth almost every week here.

I only post here because I respect the opinions of JJ, Cortez, and Bushido to name a few, and even more so some of the veterans that have left the boards. If I didnt still respect the opinions of those on the steroid board I wouldnt bother asking for the communitys advice. But I do, and here I am.
[/quote]

Couple of thoughts.

  1. 250 mg E3D is 583 mg per week, just so ya know.

  2. I think you got confused on the test taper. Are you trying to do a test taper, or just throwing a little bit of test in with your nolvadex PCT?

  3. I believe you want to wait more than 3 days after last injection for Enanthate.

3

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
championrugby wrote:
Im starting my first cycle. I only post seeking advice from the users on this board instead of just going for it because these arent substances one should take lightly. My biggest concern is my PCT, and whether my worries about side effects from Clomid are worth going for Nolvadex, which is much more costly than Clomid from my current sources, and if the planned schedule is acceptable.

I also have toned down the cycle compared to most I have seen, and am considering lowering Dianabol from 7 to 5 weeks or less. I want to gain (who doesnt?) but I also want to minimize the risk of stretch marks as my body could respond better than I had planned.

Finally, are the constraints of over training significantly lifted with the planned cycle?

WK 1-10 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg E3D (500mg Per Week)
WK 1-7 Dianabol 40mg ED (280mg Per Week)

PCT: 3 days after last injection.
WK 11: Testosterone Enanthate 70mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 12: Testosterone Enanthate 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 13: Testosterone Enanthate 30mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 14: 20mg Nolvadex 20mg ED

Total Supplements
Testosterone Enanthate: 6,050mg
Dianabol: 1,960mg
Nolvadex: 560mg (440mg to spare in case of Gynecomastia)

About: Ive been lifting for 3+ years, the last two of which I have been serious, dedicated, and smart. Since Ive started my bench max has risen from 115lbs to 255lbs, my weight fell from a fat 235 to a bone thin 160, and is currently up to a reasonably solid 201. Im 70 inches, 22 years old.

Am I a newbie? If thats judged by forum posts alone than by all means I am, but if you mean do I know my way around the gym and kitchen then Im not. I only say this because I expect the avalanche of flame posts to a 22yo first time poster, worst of all on the topic of steroids. It seems as though I see a first time user getting kicked in the teeth almost every week here.

I only post here because I respect the opinions of JJ, Cortez, and Bushido to name a few, and even more so some of the veterans that have left the boards. If I didnt still respect the opinions of those on the steroid board I wouldnt bother asking for the communitys advice. But I do, and here I am.

Couple of thoughts.

  1. 250 mg E3D is 583 mg per week, just so ya know.

  2. I think you got confused on the test taper. Are you trying to do a test taper, or just throwing a little bit of test in with your nolvadex PCT?

  3. I believe you want to wait more than 3 days after last injection for Enanthate.
    [/quote]

  4. Wrong. It’s 583 1/3 mg per week. Get it straight.

  5. It is a test taper. He is simply using Nolva to help subside the estrogen rebound upon the reduction of the test dose.

OP, if you want to do a taper, I would recommend a stasis taper because there have been absolutely no AAS users coming back and complaining that it doesn’t work.

At week 11, instead of beginning the taper, begin the stasis period, which I personally recommend for 6 weeks. Take nothing but 100mg of Test per week during this time. Then at week 17, taper down slower than what you have listed. I don’t see why you couldn’t go down as slow as 10mg less per week. To see a much much more detailed explanation of what I am talking about, go to the sticky at the top of the steroid forum, which I highly suggest doing.

  1. He will actually have more stable levels of test per week if he injects more often. E3D is fine.

KVA, don’t use steroids.

I would look into getting some Adex as well as HCG to take during your cycle. That way, you will keep your balls running as well as keep estrogenic sides to a minimum.

I’ve done tons of research, but I am no vet. If any vet wants to step in and correct me, by all means do so.

4

Ditch the dbol for now. Save it for later cycles, see how your body is gonna aromatize things.

I’d add adex throughout, .25mg EOD. Or at least have it on hand, enough for a full cycle, if you end up needing it throughout. Girls get jealous when the guy has bigger boobs than she does. :wink:

Get as lean as possible before your first cycle. If you’re worried about stretch marks, then moisturize your skin often.

How many calories do you plan on eating? What is the split gonna look like?

All in all, most are gonna tell you to maybe try and max out natural gains for at least another year or two.

And yeah, 250 E3D is gonna be more than 500mg per week, unless you want to do the Sunday morning/wednesday night injections. E3D would be your better bet, to keep blood levels more stable.

5

Definately tinker with your PCT protocol. Nolva may be more expensive, but you dont have to use nearly as much compared to clomid. Check out research sites for good deals on either if you choose not to do a proper taper. Don’t rely solely on nolvadex for gyno. It is wise to keep E levels from getting to high for a few reasons and Arimidex is a good drug to use for this.

If you choose to run the Dbol (which you probably shouldn’t and probably won’t need in a first cycle) consider starting it at week 3 or 4 and run it for 4-5 weeks. This way you will have the synergistic benefit of the Test and Dbol longer than if you were to start the Dbol before the test kicked in.

I wouldnt worry about stretch marks. Considering the fact that you’ve weighed as much as 235lbs in the past means that your skin should be able to accomodate the new weight gain. I doubt you’ll gain more than 34 pounds lol, regardless of how much you eat.

And yes, it will be much harder to overtrain while on a cycle, assuming you’re eating enough. It’s hard for anyone but yourself to determine if you are overtraining however.

Good luck

6

[quote]1. Wrong. It’s 583 1/3 mg per week. Get it straight.

  1. It is a test taper. He is simply using Nolva to help subside the estrogen rebound upon the reduction of the test dose.

OP, if you want to do a taper, I would recommend a stasis taper because there have been absolutely no AAS users coming back and complaining that it doesn’t work.

At week 11, instead of beginning the taper, begin the stasis period, which I personally recommend for 6 weeks. Take nothing but 100mg of Test per week during this time. Then at week 17, taper down slower than what you have listed. I don’t see why you couldn’t go down as slow as 10mg less per week. To see a much much more detailed explanation of what I am talking about, go to the sticky at the top of the steroid forum, which I highly suggest doing.

  1. He will actually have more stable levels of test per week if he injects more often. E3D is fine.

KVA, don’t use steroids.[/quote]

1… lol
2… I meant if he was trying to use the test taper protocol that’s (stickied?) on the steroid forum here. It just looks like a shorter taper than ya normally see. What you recomended is what I consider a proper stasis+taper.

3… I meant to start his PCT. He stated he was going to start PCT 3 days after last inject… you agree with that? I know he should inject Enanthate E3D/2x week for more stable levels…

and… ok, DAD. (no pun intended.)

7

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
Couple of thoughts.

  1. 250 mg E3D is 583 mg per week, just so ya know.

  2. I think you got confused on the test taper. Are you trying to do a test taper, or just throwing a little bit of test in with your nolvadex PCT?

  3. I believe you want to wait more than 3 days after last injection for Enanthate.
    [/quote]

I am trying a test taper, although its slightly shorter than I’d like it to be. I plan on using Nolvadex to fight the rise in estrogen that is to be expected from my rather sharp decline in Test.

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
At week 11, instead of beginning the taper, begin the stasis period, which I personally recommend for 6 weeks. Take nothing but 100mg of Test per week during this time. Then at week 17, taper down slower than what you have listed.

I don’t see why you couldn’t go down as slow as 10mg less per week. To see a much much more detailed explanation of what I am talking about, go to the sticky at the top of the steroid forum, which I highly suggest doing.
[/quote]

I fully agree with using a stasis period, in fact that is the way I would like to go. The problem is that I cant get my hands on any more Test E, at least not from a source I trust as much as my current one. I dont want to have a mix of test I trust, and a mix of test that I hope is legit, especially for my PCT.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

Definately tinker with your PCT protocol. Nolva may be more expensive, but you dont have to use nearly as much compared to clomid. Check out research sites for good deals on either if you choose not to do a proper taper.

Don’t rely solely on nolvadex for gyno. It is wise to keep E levels from getting to high for a few reasons and Arimidex is a good drug to use for this.
[/quote]

I dont personally know anyone with a first hand experience of Arimidex, though online there is an abundance of information about it. Thatguy1083 suggest the use of it throughout the cycle, which I have seen before. Do you also support his suggestion?

kayveeay, BestDaddyEver, BONEZ217, and Thatguy1083: thankyou for your insight into my pct, as well as the suggestions to add arimidex throughout the cycle.

8

There are different opinions on whether to run arimidex throughout the cycle. Some feel that lowering estrogen too much will hinder gains. Some feel that arimidex should be started when the earliest signs of gyno appear.

Read KSman’s posts on keeping E2 levels under control and his ideas on estrogen poisoning.

You are using two aromatizeable steroids but there’s a chance you wont develop gyno.

There is no reson not to have it, however, simply because it is better choice for preventing gyno and keeping estrogen levels under control than Nolvadex.

This is definately a situation where it is better to play it safe, you can always save the Adex for next cycle

9

[quote]championrugby wrote:
Im starting my first cycle. I only post seeking advice from the users on this board instead of just going for it because these arent substances one should take lightly.

My biggest concern is my PCT, and whether my worries about side effects from Clomid are worth going for Nolvadex, which is much more costly than Clomid from my current sources, and if the planned schedule is acceptable.

I also have toned down the cycle compared to most I have seen, and am considering lowering Dianabol from 7 to 5 weeks or less. I want to gain (who doesnt?) but I also want to minimize the risk of stretch marks as my body could respond better than I had planned.

Finally, are the constraints of over training significantly lifted with the planned cycle?

WK 1-10 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg E3D (500mg Per Week)
WK 1-7 Dianabol 40mg ED (280mg Per Week)
PCT: 3 days after last injection.
WK 11: Testosterone Enanthate 70mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 12: Testosterone Enanthate 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 13: Testosterone Enanthate 30mg + Nolvadex 20mg ED
WK 14: 20mg Nolvadex 20mg ED

Total Supplements
Testosterone Enanthate: 6,050mg
Dianabol: 1,960mg
Nolvadex: 560mg (440mg to spare in case of Gynecomastia)

About: Ive been lifting for 3+ years, the last two of which I have been serious, dedicated, and smart. Since Ive started my bench max has risen from 115lbs to 255lbs, my weight fell from a fat 235 to a bone thin 160, and is currently up to a reasonably solid 201. Im 70 inches, 22 years old.

Am I a newbie? If thats judged by forum posts alone than by all means I am, but if you mean do I know my way around the gym and kitchen then Im not. I only say this because I expect the avalanche of flame posts to a 22yo first time poster, worst of all on the topic of steroids. It seems as though I see a first time user getting kicked in the teeth almost every week here.

I only post here because I respect the opinions of JJ, Cortez, and Bushido to name a few, and even more so some of the veterans that have left the boards. If I didnt still respect the opinions of those on the steroid board I wouldnt bother asking for the communitys advice. But I do, and here I am.
[/quote]

First of all at 22, you are kind of young for test, but I am not completely discouraging you. 250mg for 12 weeks is plenty for first time, providing that you are eating enough protein. PCT: means no AAS!

1 week after last shot, take 500 iu of HCG EOD for 3 weeks along with novadex 10-20mg for total of 5 weeks after last shot. I would strongly suggest you get bloodwork before and 4 weeks after last shot.

At 48 I would only take 500mg for me, double if I was competing. I gurantee my test levels are at least 1/2 of yours or less. One more thing , You could take arimidex at .5mg EOD, or I like Letro taking 1.25mg per day. Any questions PM