Finding HcG Therapy

Pharma TRT
1

I am basically in a tough spot. As you may know from my previous lab posts. I have had very low levels of free test. I basically have now run into a brickwall with my Endo. When we originally talked he told me he would test me for the 3rd time. Just for Test. If my labs came back low again we would proceed with a pituitary MRI and Test Injects. In the meantime i dropped off several pieces of literature regarding the benefits of HcG with Test.

I got a call the other day from the nurse saying that my test levels were once again very low but instead of a follow-up the doctor had simply dictated me a letter. In this letter he basically said he is not familiar with HcG, He believes he is knot knowledgeable enough to treat someone of my age with low test. He recommended that i should see a doctor at a large university such as U of M. He also recommended that i get a pituitary MRI and some follow up labs. So basically he bitched out on me hard.

All i know right now, is that i have had rock low levels of FSH, LH and free test for a long time. He thinks its a pituitary problem , but has no idea what could be causing it. My main problem is that i cannot seek outside treatment. My insurance is very very bad and i am a broke college student who has no means of transport to a larger area. I am located in the upper michigan area. I checked into some very popular docs but none of them accept insurance period. Is anyone familiar with any large medical facilities that are using HcG and Test?

So what i did was call the docs office back. Tell them i would get the additional labs ( IGF-1 Cortisol ACTH). I also asked if the doctor would be willing to still treat me with the 100 mg of TEST. In this case i would get the AI and HcG myself. This is a pretty expensive approach for my current situation since i have not been able to find any reasonable pricing on HcG. So the nurse told me the doctor needed to think about it and would get back to me. Funny thing is they have never even check my E2 Levels.

I am def a bit scared to proceed since even the doctors are mind fucked but i am here to educate myself to the best of my ability and hopefully you guys can provide some good insight. All of my labs are readily available if you just check my history.

2

Life Extension Foundation has a relatively inexpensive blood test for E2.

Basically there are two possibilities: primary hypogonadism (the testes are the problem and will not produce enough testosterone regardless of stimulation) or secondary (the pituitary doesn’t produce enough LH.)

If, as it sounds like, you have had your LH and FSH tested and they have been rock bottom low, then there is no reason to suspect primary hypogonadism. Most likely the testes will respond well to HCG.

It is easy enough to buy from an Internet pharmacy, e.g. a Canadian escrow outfit that arranges a deal with a foreign supplier for you. Easy and cheap.

However, if it were me I would test E2, because if it is too high that could be your entire problem right there, in which case letrozole might well resolve it. This also is available easily enough and at no great cost.

3

Thank You Mr. Roberts, i will take that advice. I am honored to have a man with you credentials respond to a post of mine.

4

Glad to help, and hope it goes well!

5

And on dosing:

Letrozole is best individually adjusted, using tests to find what dosage over time (for example a 2 week period) puts E2 levels at the bottom end of the normal range, but it seems that a total dose of 2.5 mg/week (not per day) is a good basic estimate for most. That can be divided into every day, every other day, 3x/week, or 4x/week dosing according to what is convenient.

For HCG dosing for the purpose of raising testosterone quite effectively assuming as is probably the case that the testes can produce it and don’t lack sensitivity to the hormone, 200-250 IU/day or twice that every other day is a good amount.

Vastly higher doses can still be found recommended by some but these are incorrect and outdated. (The practice in bb’ing had been to use typical medical doses, but as the half-life of the drug is short while the duration of action needed was long and frequent injection at the doctor’s office was not desired, the medical approach was to use vast overdose so as to achieve long duration of action despite short half-life.)

6

Thank You once again. I just called the doctors office and they ok’d the E2 Test. I will report back as soon as i get my lab results back. It will most likely be on the 14th of April. If you get the chance to check back around that time i would love to hear your advice after my numbers come back and my follow up appointment with the doctor is complete.

If i can get the Test injects covered by my insurance, than i could use 250 iu HcG every other day

  • 100 mg Test divided twice weekly? That would save me the cost of the extra HcG or i might just get the entirety of the HcG myself and go without the test. That would be a bit more expensive though. Hopefully it is just high E2 and i can get away with just the Letrozole. I am trying to be as patient as possible before deciding means of treatment but as i am a 21 year old kid it is very frustrating.

Thanks Again

7

I have pretty much given up on the steroid forum here but occasionally there is a genuinely decent person that needs some help. Follow bills advice for sure. Also you mught google body logic MD and see if there is a practitioner in your area. They are not cheap but they specialize in treating male hormonal issues. I use a functional medicine specialist myself but i had alot of “other” problems.

But i do have a close friend that uses a doctor in the body logic network and i have been pretty impressed with their knowledge and approach, so you might give that a try as well. Also consult with KS man in teh over 35 forum…your problem is more closely realted to male andropause than it is to a steroid issue.

8

Also CRAP you are in Michigan…for god’s sake just go see Doctor John Crisler. his website is allthingsmale.com he can definetly help you.

9

[quote]morepain wrote:
Also CRAP you are in Michigan…for god’s sake just go see Doctor John Crisler. his website is allthingsmale.com he can definetly help you. [/quote]

Thank you for your replies. I have already called Dr. Crisler and he does not accept any form of insurance. With my current financial situation, that puts this approach out of the question. Even though we are both in Michigan, he is still a good 9 hour drive away.

I have already consulted with KS Man several times. He was very very helpful.

Thanks Again

10

Just got back from the doctor. I may be fucked hard. I would love it if someone would please shed some light on this situation.

Cortisol - 21 —(RANGE 1-22)
ACTH -60 ---- (RANGE less than >46)
Estrongen - 18 --(RANGE 0-60)

Those are my latest lab values. Free test and Total test is still very low along with very low levels of LH and FSH. The doctor agreed to treat with Test injects ( and i will get the HcG and AI myself) But first he demanded a pituitary MRI. Wtf could could be going on here? If i fix the test will it fix the cortisol?

11

Scheduled the MRI for friday…

12

Hey man, I just fuond this thread. Any updates since mid-April?

13

One can obtain HCG at a very reasonable price over the Internet. A search on “escrow pharmacy” could be very helpful.

An aromatase inhibitor, unfortunately, will not help as that would be the case only when estradiol is midrange or higher.

I don’t know whether increasing the testosterone will help with the cortisol.

14

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Hey man, I just fuond this thread. Any updates since mid-April?[/quote]

Yeah for sure. My first inject was May 3rd. i have been keeping detailed logs of everything.

Started T + HcG + AI. Following the protocol listed on this website

100 mg of test Cyp weekly ( 2 50 mg injections into the quad sub q)
250 IU HcG EOD
1 mg AI per week in doses

So far, absolutely no relief in joint pain. I feel maybe a bit better but not anything too noticeable as far as mood goes. I do have alot of spontaneous erections and morning wood tho. Which is a bonus i guess. Id rather have healthy joints.

I am currently debating what my next step should be. I could ride out the T-replacement for another few months and see if it helps. Or i could pull off and possibly try some clomid and a restart. I still do not know the cause of the actual Low T and i would like to find that. Im about to get some new insurance ( still in the hole about 3K, from my brain scan since my current insurance is pretty much like Liability car insurance). Then its either off to the Mayo clinic to get some further testing done or who knows where ill go from there. At this point i am definitely questioning my choice to go on t-replacement in hopes that it would relieve my joint pain. I will however be fair and give it some time. I may need it no matter what anyways. We will see. Im just hoping that by the time i figure it out it won’t be too late.

Luckily there are alot of knowledgeable people on these forums such as KSman and BBB. Also Bill Roberts ( ive been checking out meso alot lately). Thanks for all of your help guys and hopefully we will figure this thing out soon!

It is also important that i find a doctor who is on board so i can stop paying out of the pocket for HcG and AI and not have to obtain it in a semi-legal manner LOL.

15

[quote]Substance P wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Hey man, I just fuond this thread. Any updates since mid-April?[/quote]

Yeah for sure. My first inject was May 3rd. i have been keeping detailed logs of everything.

Started T + HcG + AI. Following the protocol listed on this website

100 mg of test Cyp weekly ( 2 50 mg injections into the quad sub q)
250 IU HcG EOD
1 mg AI per week in doses

So far, absolutely no relief in joint pain. I feel maybe a bit better but not anything too noticeable as far as mood goes. I do have alot of spontaneous erections and morning wood tho. Which is a bonus i guess. Id rather have healthy joints.

I am currently debating what my next step should be. I could ride out the T-replacement for another few months and see if it helps. Or i could pull off and possibly try some clomid and a restart. I still do not know the cause of the actual Low T and i would like to find that. Im about to get some new insurance ( still in the hole about 3K, from my brain scan since my current insurance is pretty much like Liability car insurance). Then its either off to the Mayo clinic to get some further testing done or who knows where ill go from there. At this point i am definitely questioning my choice to go on t-replacement in hopes that it would relieve my joint pain. I will however be fair and give it some time. I may need it no matter what anyways. We will see. Im just hoping that by the time i figure it out it won’t be too late.

Luckily there are alot of knowledgeable people on these forums such as KSman and BBB. Also Bill Roberts ( ive been checking out meso alot lately). Thanks for all of your help guys and hopefully we will figure this thing out soon!

It is also important that i find a doctor who is on board so i can stop paying out of the pocket for HcG and AI and not have to obtain it in a semi-legal manner LOL.
[/quote]

estrodial test they did was the wrong one and may have gave you mis leading information about true levels of e2. You need lab corp sensitive (lef.org) 35 bucks GET IT. As for HCG 250 EOD is too much. I have patients take 250 ius day before the injection then monitor e2 levels 5 weeks after starting trt. If TRT is adjusted properly adex does not need to be needed majority of the times. I am also on TRT and have lowered my dosages to where I get more benefit with less side effects then before and no need for armidex. Joint pains are most likely due to thyroid, e2, or adrenal imbalance. My joints kill me when my thyroid goes out more then e2 issues. e2 can affect thyroid funciton and slow it down due to the fact that it bind with the receptors. There is alot that goes into knowing the endocrine system and how it interacts with brain, immune system, liver so it is imperitive that dr’s understand this, but many just think testosteone is the answer in alot of time its more a nail in the coffin for some people.

16

Ok Hans. Im on board but what do you suggest that i do? I cant just pull the plug on the TRT 6 weeks in or i would???

My thyroid numbers check out well btw. Not sure what tests they did for adrenals though. How do you know it was the wrong test? Estradiol Serum?

17

[quote]Substance P wrote:
I am basically in a tough spot. As you may know from my previous lab posts. I have had very low levels of free test. I basically have now run into a brickwall with my Endo. When we originally talked he told me he would test me for the 3rd time. Just for Test. If my labs came back low again we would proceed with a pituitary MRI and Test Injects. In the meantime i dropped off several pieces of literature regarding the benefits of HcG with Test.

I got a call the other day from the nurse saying that my test levels were once again very low but instead of a follow-up the doctor had simply dictated me a letter. In this letter he basically said he is not familiar with HcG, He believes he is knot knowledgeable enough to treat someone of my age with low test. He recommended that i should see a doctor at a large university such as U of M. He also recommended that i get a pituitary MRI and some follow up labs. So basically he bitched out on me hard.

All i know right now, is that i have had rock low levels of FSH, LH and free test for a long time. He thinks its a pituitary problem , but has no idea what could be causing it. My main problem is that i cannot seek outside treatment. My insurance is very very bad and i am a broke college student who has no means of transport to a larger area. I am located in the upper michigan area. I checked into some very popular docs but none of them accept insurance period. Is anyone familiar with any large medical facilities that are using HcG and Test?

So what i did was call the docs office back. Tell them i would get the additional labs ( IGF-1 Cortisol ACTH). I also asked if the doctor would be willing to still treat me with the 100 mg of TEST. In this case i would get the AI and HcG myself. This is a pretty expensive approach for my current situation since i have not been able to find any reasonable pricing on HcG. So the nurse told me the doctor needed to think about it and would get back to me. Funny thing is they have never even check my E2 Levels.

I am def a bit scared to proceed since even the doctors are mind fucked but i am here to educate myself to the best of my ability and hopefully you guys can provide some good insight. All of my labs are readily available if you just check my history. [/quote]

Welcome to Hell, brother. Welcome to Hell…

Now for something constructive: stop eating any breads, cookies, all of that. Do 45 minutes of aerobics EVERY DAY and don’t eat for 2 hours after you’re done. Then eat a bowl of cottage cheese with walnuts or pecans, lightly covered with the most expensive olive oil you can buy. The rest of the day is protein drinks mixed with Benefiber (I like muscle Milk).

Forget about HRT, HCG, and all that. Only people like Stallone ever get anything out of it because he spends many thousands per month. He can afford real doctors who START with a downpayment of 5K just to get into their program. The ones we see are just about all either ignoramus’ or crooks. Ever notice how you usually know more than they do? Happened to me many times.

Lose all the fat and don’t eat grains…you’ll be fine.

18

When dealing with HrT.
YOur start with adrenals and thyroid first if your are under the age of 30-35.
If over age of 30-35 and what also is your preference then TRT can be started and adjust the thyroid and adrenals along the way. The main purpose in older people is to get them feeling bettter. Purpose in younger people is to try to get their own natural production going if possible. SO many young guy have been placed on TRT when it was not needed in the first place. I have run into numerous guy that were able to avoid it at all cost.

find the source of the stress of why you have to be on TRT.
YOu provided the proper nutrients to make the hormones by knowing the what your are deficient in.
You run a clomid challege to see if primary or secondary
By providing the proper nutrition base as well as thyroid and adrenal support when you come off the clomid you have a stronger foundation to come of to with a highly likely ability for success to hold.

I am not saying pulling the plug but may be make some minor adjustments. Thyroid may appear normal, but it can be tricky for some people that have normal readings and still be hypo. More so then anything we go by symptoms with the person, but work into keeping the horomone system in balance so it does not offset other factors.

One also has to be cautious of food allergies and intolerance because increase of gluten sensitivy has been rampant in the past 4 years since helping people with debilitating health issue. I can not tell you how many people I encountered that had acid reflux, GI distrsss that I recommended gluten and casein free diets dramatically improved with in a few weeks time.

19

[quote]Headhunter wrote
Lose all the fat and don’t eat grains…you’ll be fine.
[/quote]

Already did lose the fat. I also avoid grains. I eat a paleo style diet

20

[quote]Hardasnails wrote:
When dealing with HrT.
YOur start with adrenals and thyroid first if your are under the age of 30-35.
If over age of 30-35 and what also is your preference then TRT can be started and adjust the thyroid and adrenals along the way. The main purpose in older people is to get them feeling bettter. Purpose in younger people is to try to get their own natural production going if possible. SO many young guy have been placed on TRT when it was not needed in the first place. I have run into numerous guy that were able to avoid it at all cost.
find the source of the stress of why you have to be on TRT.
YOu provided the proper nutrients to make the hormones by knowing the what your are deficient in.
You run a clomid challege to see if primary or secondary
By providing the proper nutrition base as well as thyroid and adrenal support when you come off the clomid you have a stronger foundation to come of to with a highly likely ability for success to hold.

I am not saying pulling the plug but may be make some minor adjustments. Thyroid may appear normal, but it can be tricky for some people that have normal readings and still be hypo. More so then anything we go by symptoms with the person, but work into keeping the horomone system in balance so it does not offset other factors.

One also has to be cautious of food allergies and intolerance because increase of gluten sensitivy has been rampant in the past 4 years since helping people with debilitating health issue. I can not tell you how many people I encountered that had acid reflux, GI distrsss that I recommended gluten and casein free diets dramatically improved with in a few weeks time.

[/quote]

I do avoid grains and eat very clean. Fruits veggies nuts and lean meats. I even cut out dairy. I worked with a ND last fall and did a full IgE IgG food allergy panel and came up totally clean besides a minor response to coffee. I also quit drinking caffiene…I think it would be safe to say at this point that i have ruled out a food allergy. I also pour celtic sea salt on everything that i eat. So according to most ND’s that ive spoke with im doing alot of things right nutritionally. I may be wrong but those are just some observations that i’ve made. I did all of this before i took the leap to TRT by the way…with little to no results whatsoever