Joint pain: any exposure to tic bites? Might be a good idea to get tested for Lyme disease.
Very familiar. I lived in the country for about 19 years ticks everywhere. I thought i got checked but they may have not done proper testing…im currently looking into it.
[quote]Substance P wrote:
[quote]Hardasnails wrote:
When dealing with HrT.
YOur start with adrenals and thyroid first if your are under the age of 30-35.
If over age of 30-35 and what also is your preference then TRT can be started and adjust the thyroid and adrenals along the way. The main purpose in older people is to get them feeling bettter. Purpose in younger people is to try to get their own natural production going if possible. SO many young guy have been placed on TRT when it was not needed in the first place. I have run into numerous guy that were able to avoid it at all cost.
find the source of the stress of why you have to be on TRT.
YOu provided the proper nutrients to make the hormones by knowing the what your are deficient in.
You run a clomid challege to see if primary or secondary
By providing the proper nutrition base as well as thyroid and adrenal support when you come off the clomid you have a stronger foundation to come of to with a highly likely ability for success to hold.
I am not saying pulling the plug but may be make some minor adjustments. Thyroid may appear normal, but it can be tricky for some people that have normal readings and still be hypo. More so then anything we go by symptoms with the person, but work into keeping the horomone system in balance so it does not offset other factors.
One also has to be cautious of food allergies and intolerance because increase of gluten sensitivy has been rampant in the past 4 years since helping people with debilitating health issue. I can not tell you how many people I encountered that had acid reflux, GI distrsss that I recommended gluten and casein free diets dramatically improved with in a few weeks time.
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I do avoid grains and eat very clean. Fruits veggies nuts and lean meats. I even cut out dairy. I worked with a ND last fall and did a full IgE IgG food allergy panel and came up totally clean besides a minor response to coffee. I also quit drinking caffiene…I think it would be safe to say at this point that i have ruled out a food allergy. I also pour celtic sea salt on everything that i eat. So according to most ND’s that ive spoke with im doing alot of things right nutritionally. I may be wrong but those are just some observations that i’ve made. I did all of this before i took the leap to TRT by the way…with little to no results whatsoever
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If hormones are in check then one needs to look at what is causing the inflammation. If you have good insurance there is a panel from neuroscience that deals with cytokins that could red flag lyme. When doing lyme diseae you want to have the elisha lyme test which is the most accurate one out there that is >85% accuracy. If you thyroid is health and adrenals are in check verified by saliva test …your ferritin is good and all other factors then look towards a hidden infection such as lyme disease as indicated. I think about 25-30% of patients when ever thing else is in check then lyme disease may be at source as Ksman pointed out. But examing thyroid can be very tricky because you can have cellular resistance that may be difficult. Celtic sea salt will result in iodine defieincy in amatter of 3-4 months because it does not have it in. I have all patients testing low on iodine start with low dosages of lugols or iodoral starting at the bare minmum because they may have a detoxifcation reaction from bromide toxicity which is found in lot of food. Palediet is good but it can cause Fatty acid to get out of balance if you eat organic meats. You are eating to healthy and may be causing you body to go other way …Just some food for thought
These are good thoughts Hans. The reason that i do not think the joint pain is related to the hormone issues is simply because i have been experiencing it since i was about 16 (5 years) and the LOW T signs didnt pop up until last year. I always test negative for things like chronic inflammation and CRP though. I am making a phone call today to see if i had the ELISA test done.
I think your right about the diet. Im loosening things up. Things like diet can easily be controlled so theres no point in having diet as a possible cause.
Have you actually ever pulled a patient off TRT successfully once you found the cause? Just curious if i did find out what this was if i could pull the plug on the TRT.
[quote]
Have you actually ever pulled a patient off TRT successfully once you found the cause? Just curious if i did find out what this was if i could pull the plug on the TRT. [/quote]
Not something that happens when the primary cause is age related decline.
Happens sometime with younger males.
Since im 21 i’ll assume that i fall into the younger males category…so this is good news. I just got confirmation that i wasn’t checked for lymes disease…so thats next
Lymes Test is scheduled for Friday…Any ideas of what i should be asking for…ELISA, WESTERN BLOT…ETC?
[quote]Substance P wrote:
These are good thoughts Hans. The reason that i do not think the joint pain is related to the hormone issues is simply because i have been experiencing it since i was about 16 (5 years) and the LOW T signs didnt pop up until last year. I always test negative for things like chronic inflammation and CRP though. I am making a phone call today to see if i had the ELISA test done.
I think your right about the diet. Im loosening things up. Things like diet can easily be controlled so theres no point in having diet as a possible cause.
Have you actually ever pulled a patient off TRT successfully once you found the cause? Just curious if i did find out what this was if i could pull the plug on the TRT. [/quote]
Yep several times because actually the cause was supplement that he was taken later we found out he was allergic to through blood testing. This caused his liver to not process things properly and huge inflammatory response in his bowel which cause cortisol levels to drop due to the supply could not meet the demand. The body sacrified the testosteorne and diverted its building block to cortisol. Cortisol you can not live with out you die. Testosterone you can live with out.
So the priortiy in the body is cortisol for surivival and testosterone levels suffer because of it. By identifying the gut inbalance supporting adrenals and finding out that his EFA were out of wack he was able to come off and restart with out clomid even. Now he is taking his experience and getting a degree in natural medicine to help other.
As far as Lyme tests go to Igenex.com. They are the lyme specialists according to all the lyme support boards around. Download their lab test PDF. Take that to your lab and have them do all they can on that form. Aim for the complete initial lyme panel #6050. And the complete co-infection panel # 5090. 20% of patients with Lyme have a co infection also. Such as Bartonella (aka cat scratch disease). That along with Lyme will kill your T. Especially free t. Im currently getting tested for that also. Ticks are common where I live.
Note, you can use Igenex also to do the tests. But they dont take insurance. So, those two labels panels will run $1000 which is why I recommend going to your lab and seeing if they can do they same tests.
I just got a lyme Titer…If that comes back positive theyll do Elisa…Either way the doc said its off to Mayo Clinic in Minnesota for this guy.
FUCK…
"Your labs showed a moderately elevated muscle enzyme count, which could be
from a number of causes, including a vigorous work out. Lyme test is normal
(lyme antibody), ANA screen for lupus is negative, rheumatoid factor
undetected, and inflammatory markers are normal. Blood counts show slightly
enlarged cell volumes.
So not a whole lot to go from based soley on labs, but your symptoms and
elevated muscle enzymes certainly warrant further investigation.
If you don’t already have an appointment to see, please make one so we can
discuss a referral to a rheumatologist. You might also look into a
rheumatologist in your hometown–sometimes insurance companies are more
receptive to local specialists.
I’ll go over all the details of your labs when I see you."
Doc
Nothing conclusive at all…just some effects of TRT…Off to mayo in a few months. I swear when this over i might just turn out to be a damn good doctor myself.
If you had sore muscles from training or bruising, you can very easily get “elevated muscle enzyme count”. You would want to retest for those enzymes when you have not been training hard before going to a specialist.
Good call KSMan, i will not be doing anything before my my next labs which will hopefully take place at Mayo.