Final Word On Lies About Kerry

The thing is this Kerry is not coming clean. He is refusing to have many of his Navy records released. Taken from the FAQ section of the swift boat veterean website…

"… Aren?t you nothing more than Republican loyalists who happen to be veterans?

No. Among us are Democrats, Republicans and Independents. We are acting solely as Vietnam veterans who served in Swift Boats.

  1. Hasn?t Senator Kerry already released his records?

No, Senator Kerry has disclosed only a selected portion of his records. Specifically, Senator Kerry has not disclosed the records leading to the award of the three purple hearts, the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. There are also missing performance evaluations (called ?Fitness Reports?) for certain periods of his service as a Navy officer. We call upon Senator Kerry to authorize the complete release of his military records by filing a simple two-page Form 180.

  1. Why are you not demanding that President Bush release his records?

It is our understanding that President Bush has released his records. If there are additional facts about his conduct in the military that should be disclosed, then we hope and trust that servicemen who had served with him will come forward as we have.

  1. What exactly has Kerry lied about?

Senator Kerry misrepresented his own actions and those of his fellow officers and men. We believe that some of that misrepresentation resulted in him receiving medals to which he was not entitled. While many people might think that is immaterial, it is a matter of great importance to military personnel and veterans. As our chairman, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, U.S. Navy (Ret.), has said, ?This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust – all absolute tenets of command.?

It is a matter of public record that John Kerry lied before Congress when he falsely portrayed his fellow service personnel in Vietnam as rapists and baby killers. John Kerry claimed that American troops were guilty of ?crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command,? and that we ?personally raped? and otherwise brutalized innocent civilians. Kerry specifically accused Swift boat personnel of ?showing the flag and firing at sampans and villages along the banks? and ?butchering a lot of innocent people.? None of that is true.

We believe Senator Kerry?s irresponsible accusations damaged the U.S. war effort. Whether his testimony was designed to advance a political or personal agenda, we do believe that testimony endangered our prisoners of war, dishonored those injured and killed in action and did irreparable harm to the reputation of servicemen who served honorably in Vietnam only to return home to unwarranted ridicule and abuse.

Drawing on the credibility of a tour of duty in Vietnam, however abbreviated, John Kerry shaped a false, slanderous image of U.S. military personnel as violent, vicious and brutal. U.S. military personnel, Senator Kerry told the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, are collectively ?a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence.? That is untrue. As with military men and women today, U.S. military personnel in Vietnam went out of their way to safeguard innocent life, often taking casualties themselves rather than putting civilians at risk.

Having lied to the world about his former comrades, it is our view that Senator Kerry is unfit to command our sons and daughters as Commander-in-Chief.

  1. Are you claiming that there were no atrocities committed in Vietnam whatsoever?

No. We base our position on statements made by Vietnam veterans -? many of whom served in the same Swift Boat units as the Senator and many who served at the same time. Our position is based on the testimony of eyewitnesses who were in a position to have seen or been informed about war crimes. None of these veterans witnessed or were informed of any of the crimes Senator Kerry has accused them of committing. Military personnel who witness crimes and atrocities have an absolute duty to report them to their superiors. Senator Kerry did not report a single instance of criminal behavior. If he had indeed witnessed the atrocities about which he testified to Congress, he should have reported them.

  1. How common was it for a person to receive medals at the rate and number that Senator Kerry did?

Winning three Purple Hearts, the Bronze Star and the Silver Star in four months is rare. We have received letters from countless veterans outlining serious injuries – far more serious than any Kerry sustained ?- who said they did not seek a Purple Heart, because they did not feel it was warranted by the minor nature of their wound. In any case, the Senator?s full disclosure of his military records will shed light on the truth.

  1. Are you working or involved in any way with the Bush/Cheney campaign or any other Republican organization?

Absolutely not. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is a non-partisan organization. As part of our mission, we believe it is incumbent on ALL presidential candidates to be totally honest and forthcoming regarding personal background and policy information that would help the voting public make an informed decision when choosing the next president of the United States.

The organization was created, organized and funded by swift boat veterans who joined together to defend a common cause. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accepts donations from individuals and groups as a 527 organization. …"

And until he signs that form, this group will not give up to get the truth out. And again, you go to every website, about Veterans etc against Kerry, speaking out on this, and so many more everyone is saying the same exact thing… Is John Kerrys’ story the same???

And John O’Neill one of the co authors of the book Unfit for Command, has come out now and said …

“…John O’Neill, co-author of the best-selling “Unfit for Command,” the book that accuses John Kerry of falsifying his Vietnam record, challenged the presidential candidate to sue him if he’s wrong about any of his claims, SO we shall see if John Kerry sues him…”

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40096

Joe

[quote]vroom wrote:
BB, the article is much stronger for Kerry than you claim.

I don’t have the time right now, but for example, it counters the claim that perhaps he injured himself to win a purple heart… by saying, he may have got shrapnel in the ass from his own grenade, but that he wasn’t awarded the purple heart because he had shrapnel in his ass.

It also shows those with the counterclaims have a serious grudge against Kerry for his stance against the war after his tour. However, it almost completely discredits all of the claims of this group.

You’d have to be blind, willfully or otherwise, to think his service was anything less than that contained in the official records.

I remain disgusted.

Go after the Cambodia issue or his after tour records perhaps. However, if the Cambodia thing is true I doubt it would be declassified for public consumption.[/quote]

No, I don’t think it was stronger for Kerry than I claimed. I said it didn’t disprove anything, and that’s exactly where it stands. All I have said about this from the beginning is that it is a battle of eyewitness accounts that will not be proved or disproved 30 years later, and that it is unfortunate. If that warrants your getting your panties in a wad and calling me names, I guess I will just have to live with my hurt feelings.

I will submit, as earlier, that you are letting your emotions get in the way of dispassionate analysis of the situation. Circumstantial evidence is what people fall to when they don’t have good factual evidence, and that is all the NYT chart (which I referenced first, not Lumpy), does. You question motive when you cannot disprove facts, and this whole, fit-throwing scene has a major whiff of desperation about it.

This whole focus on Viet Nam is unfortunate, but Kerry can hardly complain about focus on his Viet Nam record when every other statement out of his mouth at the convention refers to his service in Viet Nam.

As you say, the Cambodia thing is stronger. Also stronger will be critiques of his protest activities – especially if Kerry was doing anything contra to the war effort while he was still in the Navy.

Another reason the focus has been on Viet Nam is that, not only has Kerry brought up a lot about Viet Nam, but he hasn’t taken a strong position on many other issues – he hasn’t sold his own policy vision, to give voters a reason to see him as a better alternative. That, however, is a post for a different thread.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/issues.asp?v=8/23

Monday, August 23, 2004

We Are Waiting

Campaign '04: John Kerry says he’ll fight claims he lied about or exaggerated his service in Vietnam. The best way to fight such charges would be to stop calling people names and start providing some answers.

He’ll have to show that the charges by a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are false. That’s a tall order. The allegations are numerous, well documented and quite serious.

In general, they insist that Kerry has consistently overstated his heroism, that many accounts of his service in Vietnam are not true and that he has slandered his fellow veterans by claiming they were guilty of widespread war crimes and atrocities.

It’s too bad Kerry has responded to these charges ? and particularly those raised in the book “Unfit for Command” by former Swift boat commander John O’Neill ? by vowing to “attack.”

So far, his “attack” seems to be of the political and personal kind, with Kerry and his followers claiming that O’Neill, and the 250 or so Swift boat vets who back him, are Republican Party shills.

On Friday, Kerry filed a legal complaint about O’Neill’s group.

But that won’t do. Only answers will. The presidency of the United States is too important to give to someone with something to hide. Questions about Kerry’s fitness to be commander in chief won’t go away if he simply stonewalls and makes baseless charges of political bias.

After all, it was Kerry himself ? with the smart salute and “reporting for duty” opening of his convention speech ? who made his military service the keystone of his campaign. And it is Kerry who has repeatedly compared himself favorably with President Bush on that score.

In so doing, he’s all but ignored his undistinguished 20-year career in the U.S. Senate and his decade as an anti-war activist.

Fair enough. Now we have questions about Vietnam. Such as:

? Did Kerry commit war atrocities? This charge would seem unduly harsh to level at someone who fought in a war more than three decades ago ? except for the fact that he himself made it.

In a 1971 appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Kerry said: “There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed . . .”

Earlier that year, Kerry claimed his now-beloved “band of brothers” were broadly guilty of war crimes as well.

During the infamous “Winter Soldier Investigation” by anti-war activists in early 1971, Kerry and his pals described a shocking array of atrocities that U.S. troops routinely committed: arson, rape, torture, murder, burning of villages, all part of official policy.

This, more than anything, explains the still-burning ire of his former comrades in arms.

As O’Neill wrote: “Millions of Vietnam veterans will never forget Kerry’s spinning of lies ? lies so damaging to his comrades but so profitable to himself.”

Kerry never provided evidence that such war crimes were official policy or routine. But he ? and O’Neill ? have raised questions about his own behavior in Vietnam.

? Did Kerry lie about “Christmas in Cambodia”? This is a story Kerry has repeated over and over as explanation for his later metamorphosis from decorated hero into staunch anti-war activist.

“I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas,” Kerry wrote in the Boston Herald in October 1979. “The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real.”

A couple of problems. Nixon wasn’t president on Christmas Eve 1968. Lyndon Johnson was. In fact, official records of his service show Kerry was never in Cambodia ? as his campaign now concedes.

Subsequent “clarifications” ? saying Kerry in ensuing months served as a kind of ferry master for Green Berets, CIA agents and Navy Seals into Cambodia ? likewise have run afoul of the truth. There simply is no evidence for it.

Yet, on the floor of the Senate, Kerry said the experience was “seared ? seared” into his memory.

Bad memory, or just a lie? People deserve an explanation.

? Kerry’s medals. Kerry returned from his 4 1/2 month stint in Vietnam with three Purple Hearts for wounds, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star for gallantry.

But some of those who served with him cast doubt on how he earned his medals ? and whether he deserved them. Harsh charges, to be sure. O’Neill’s book, however, raises serious evidence to support the charges. Kerry must respond.

Specifically, O’Neill alleges Kerry got his first and third Purple Hearts for mishandling grenades ? in one case, for setting off one too close to his boat, and in the other, throwing a grenade into a rice bin. In neither case was he seriously wounded, says O’Neill.

Questions abound, too, about his Bronze Star, received for pulling special forces Lt. Jim Rassman out of the water under hostile fire, and his Silver Star, given after Kerry beached his boat in the face of an ambush and killed an enemy soldier.

In the first case, O’Neill and others charge, Kerry was fleeing action when he picked up Rassman. In the second case, the soldier was a “skinny kid” who was wounded and running away.

We’d like to know ? and suspect the American people would, too.

You may be wondering: Why raise these questions now, in the heat of a campaign? Sadly, the major media have all but ignored questions of Kerry’s record. They’ve been too busy looking for scandal in Bush’s past and, more recently, attacking O’Neill and anyone else who dares question Kerry’s glowing accounts of his service.

The bias is pervasive. As the Media Research Center, a media watchdog, pointed out, ABC, CBS and NBC did 75 stories on charges Bush was “AWOL” from the National Guard. They did nine on claims Kerry fibbed about his war record. Biased might be too kind a description.

The major media in this country are overwhelmingly liberal and refuse to ask the questions that need to be asked. They do their viewers and readers ? and Kerry for that matter ? a disservice.

If Kerry thinks he’s being slandered, he should answer with facts ?not with insults, threats and lawsuits.

We have questions, senator. We’re ready for your answers.

This article, combined with the editorial above from the Investor’s Business Daily, pretty well sums up my thoughts on this, with the exception that I would rather see people bugging Kerry for answers on his policies and Senate record than answers on this [Note, there are quotes in here that are set off by indenting in the original, and I haven’t gone in and added the quote marks – if you find it confusing, follow the link to read the original]:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/481yyfvo.asp?pg=1

The Kerry Wars
From the August 30, 2004 issue: Where was John Kerry December 24, 1968? Not in Cambodia.
by Matthew Continetti
08/30/2004, Volume 009, Issue 47

JOHN KERRY, fresh from a three-day vacation at his retreat in Ketchum, Idaho, addressed the annual convention of the International Association of Fire Fighters in Boston last week, and it was quite a speech–combative, fiery, personal. The firefighters’ union was one of the first to endorse Kerry during the Democratic primaries last year, as the candidate barnstormed among the snowy drifts of New Hampshire and Iowa, and on Thursday Kerry spoke to them plainly but forcefully, as one would to old friends. “Over the last week or so,” Kerry began, “a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been attacking me. Of course, this group isn’t interested in the truth–and they’re not telling the truth. They didn’t exist until I won the nomination for president.”

The firefighters listened quietly.

“Of course,” Kerry went on, “the president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer.” He paused. “Bring it on.”

The firefighters roared. Once a rhetorical staple of Kerry’s on the campaign trail, the phrase “Bring it on” had been remaindered of late, the Kerry campaign having come to the decision, according to Democratic strategists, that the utterance sounded silly. But Kerry was all seriousness when he addressed the firefighters. This was personal.

Which shouldn’t be surprising. It’s not every day a war thought finished over 30 years ago starts up again. And
that is a fair description of what has taken place on the campaign trail over the last two weeks, as the Kerry campaign wrestled with charges from a group of anti-Kerry Vietnam veterans that he distorted–even lied about–his war record. The group with the portentous name has accused Kerry of winning medals under false pretenses, of killing defenseless Vietnamese, of lying about his location and activities during the four months he spent in Vietnam. The veterans make their case in a television ad, which they ran in three key swing states (West Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin) and also in a book, Unfit for Command, which was written by the group’s leader, a veteran named John O’Neill, along with a political scientist named Jerome Corsi.

These are not trivial claims. The Swifties don’t give Kerry the benefit of the doubt on any issue. They challenge the circumstances behind every medal he earned in Vietnam. Their accusations are of three broad types.

First, there are issues of fact that are difficult, if not impossible, to resolve. The controversy over how Kerry earned his Bronze Star and third Purple Heart, for example, in which the young lieutenant pulled special forces soldier Jim Rassmann from the Bay Hap river, revolves around whether or not there was enemy fire at the time. Kerry says there was; the anti-Kerry veterans–some of whom were present that day, in boats alongside Kerry’s–say there wasn’t. The documentary evidence available so far backs Kerry’s story. For example, Washington Post reporter Michael Dobbs reported last week that a newly uncovered medal citation for Larry Thurlow, one of the veterans who challenge Kerry’s account of the Rassmann incident, supports Kerry. Thurlow claims to have lost the citation over 20 years ago, but has refused to release his service records. Something similar happened in the case of Kerry’s Silver Star, as one anti-Kerry vet told conflicting stories to the Boston Globe over the course of a year. In the final analysis, however, such claims boil down to Kerry’s word versus his opponents’.

The second sort of accusation is even harder to pin down, because it delves into questions of intent. Personal scruples also play a role here. These are charges that Kerry was not entirely honest in the after-action reports he wrote from the field; that as time passed his version of battles grew exaggerated and distorted; that details in Douglas Brinkley’s Tour of Duty, an account of Kerry’s war years, conflict with those in the Boston Globe biography, John F. Kerry. The story of how Kerry earned his first Purple Heart falls into this category, as do the events surrounding an attack on a sampan by Kerry’s crew in the late winter of 1969. The charge here is not that Kerry “lied,” or even that he has “distorted” the truth, but that he has told inconsistent stories over the years, occasionally omitting certain details.

It is the third sort of charge–that Kerry has sometimes painted a demonstrably false picture of events–that is the hardest to dismiss. John O’Neill’s group insists Kerry was not in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968, as the senator has repeatedly asserted that he was. They maintain that no one–including members of Kerry’s crew who otherwise support the senator–has yet corroborated Kerry’s presence in Cambodia that Christmas Eve. And indeed, after the charge had been vetted by a ravenous host of Internet bloggers, and broadcast on numerous talk radio and cable news programs, the Kerry campaign, along with Douglas Brinkley, was forced to concede: On this point, the anti-Kerry Swifties may
be right.

On October 14, 1979, John Kerry made his debut as a film critic for the Boston Herald. The film in question was Apocalypse Now, Francis Ford Coppola’s sprawling, lushly photographed Vietnam War drama. Kerry’s review was harsh. “Francis Coppola brings us Apocalypse Now the same way the politicians and generals brought us the war in Vietnam,” Kerry wrote, “by spending a lot of money, displaying a lot of technical razzle-dazzle, and by losing all sense of proportion and direction.” Plus, “Coppola’s Vietnam is devoid of reality and feeling.”

Kerry served in Vietnam from November 1968 to March 1969, and he related Coppola’s movie to his own experience. “On more than one occasion,” he went on, “I, like Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now, took my patrol boat into Cambodia.” Kerry continued: “In fact I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real.” It was that same absurdity which Coppola failed to capture in the film, Kerry said.

Kerry’s criticism was biting, but his implied chronology was off. President Nixon didn’t claim there were no American troops in Cambodia in December 1968. Indeed, he couldn’t have. He wasn’t president until January 20, 1969. Nevertheless, Kerry continued to recount his Christmas Eve adventure in the waters of Cambodia after he was elected to the Senate in 1984.

For example, on March 27, 1986, Kerry took to the floor of the Senate to protest President Reagan’s funding of the anti-Communist contras in Nicaragua. Like many Kerry speeches, this one warned against American intervention abroad by resurrecting the specter of the U.S. defeat in Vietnam: “Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia,” Kerry began. “I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.”

Kerry paused.

“I have that memory, which is seared–seared–in me,” he went on, “that says to me, before we send another generation into harm’s way, we have a responsibility in the United States Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict.”

The memory of his Christmas in Cambodia, indelibly seared into his mind, was such that Kerry often told others about it. Reporters, for example. In an AP dispatch published on June 25, 1992, reporter John Diamond wrote that, by Christmas 1968, “part of Kerry’s patrol extended across the border of South Vietnam into Cambodia.”

“We were told, ‘Just go up there and do your patrol,’” Kerry told Diamond. “Everybody was over there [in Cambodia]. Nobody thought twice about it.” Five years later, in a September 4, 1997, Senate subcommittee hearing on Cambodian politics, Kerry began his remarks by saying, “I first was introduced to Cambodia when I spent Christmas Eve of 1968 in a river in Cambodia during the Vietnam conflict.” Kerry was impressed with what he saw. “I found it to be a rather remarkable and very beautiful country which had an allure to me, and to many others,” he told his fellow lawmakers, “which has been sustained through those years.”

In June 2003, Kerry repeated his story to Boston Globe reporter Michael Kranish, who later included it in John F. Kerry, the biography he wrote with coauthors Brian Mooney and Nina Easton. Kerry told Kranish that his adventures on December 24, 1968, began “near Cambodia,” when his Swift boat was ambushed by Viet Cong. But later, Kerry said, “he had gone several miles inside Cambodia, which theoretically was off limits.” Kerry’s incursion put him in a cynical mood. He told Kranish he had sent a “sarcastic message” to his superiors from the Navy’s “most inland” unit.

For Kerry, incursions into Cambodia brought home the central absurdity behind the American war in Vietnam: It was a war in which you had trouble distinguishing friend from foe in a country that your government denied you ever set foot in. To understand John Kerry, Michael Kranish told Fox’s Hannity & Colmes last month, you have to understand his war experience. “And in one short anecdote I’ll tell you,” Kranish continued, “that in Christmas of 1968, he was on a small boat with his men, basically in Cambodia at a time when Richard Nixon was telling the American public that we’re not in Cambodia. And he basically became skeptical.”

Yet Kerry’s account of his Christmas adventure in Cambodia is not supported by hagiographer Douglas Brinkley in his book Tour of Duty. Here is how Brinkley tells it:

Christmas Eve, 1968, turned out to be memorable for the men of PCF-44 [the boat Kerry commanded] though not in the jingle-bells sense folks were enjoying back home. The only concession to the holiday spirit was that morning's rare breakfast of scrambled eggs, after which the crew headed their Swift north up the Co Chien River to its junction with the My Tho only miles from the Cambodian border.

“Only miles from the Cambodian border” is elaborated in the next sentence:

Because they were only an hour away from that neighboring country, Kerry began reading up on Cambodia's history in a book he had borrowed from the floating barracks in An Thoi.

Only an hour away?

Douglas Brinkley’s book and Unfit for Command agree that Kerry was stationed at Sa Dec in December 1968. However, Sa Dec is about 55 miles from the Cambodian border. The anti-Kerry veterans–among them Kerry’s commander at the time, George Elliott, and Elliott’s superior, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann–say that areas close to Cambodia were not patrolled by Swift boats at all, but by smaller craft called PBRs. “If he’d attempted to go in, he would have been stopped,” Hoffmann told me last week. What’s more, O’Neill writes in Unfit for Command, “preventing border crossings was considered so important at the time that an LCU (a large, mechanized landing craft) and several PBRs were stationed to ensure that no one could cross the border.”

The Cambodia story put the Kerry campaign on the defensive. Two weeks ago, Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan issued a statement. Here it is in its entirety:

On December 24, 1968 Lieutenant John Kerry and his crew were on patrol in the watery borders between Vietnam and Cambodia deep in enemy territory. In the early afternoon, Kerry's boat, PCF-44, was at Sa Dec and then headed north to the Cambodian border. There, Kerry and his crew along with two other boats were ambushed, taking fire from both sides of the river, and after the firefight were fired upon again. Later that evening during their night patrol they came under friendly fire.

It is an acknowledged fact that Swift Boat crews regularly operated along the Cambodian border from Ha Tien on the Gulf of Thailand to the rivers of the Mekong south and west of Saigon. Boats often received fire from enemy taking sanctuary across the border. Kerry's was not the only United States riverboat to respond and inadvertently or responsibly cross the border. In fact, it was this reality that lead President Nixon to later invade Cambodia itself in 1970.

Read the statement carefully, and it becomes clear that it is a tacit concession. Meehan places Kerry’s boat not in Cambodia, but “in the watery borders between Vietnam and Cambodia.” Meehan had to hedge, because none of John Kerry’s crewmates on PCF-44 affirms that they entered Cambodia. For example, the Boston Globe reported that James Wasser, a Kerry crewmate, “did not think” PCF-44 ever went into Cambodia. “It is very hard to tell,” Wasser said. Wasser is a Kerry supporter. Steven Gardner, who was the gunner on PCF-44, and who is not a Kerry supporter, is more succinct. “Never happened,” he told the Globe. “We didn’t go to Cambodia,” Gardner told me last week. “We were no closer than 40 miles, 30 miles max.”

And Rocky Hildreth, another Swift boat commander in Kerry’s division, said last week he “never heard of anybody going into Cambodia” in December 1968.

Indeed, at this writing, not a single Swift boat commander or crewmate of Kerry’s has stepped forward to confirm that John Kerry was in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.

For that matter, Kerry himself has not always been so precise about his location. “Christmas Eve I was getting shot at somewhere near Cambodia,” he told the Providence Journal-Bulletin on April 3, 1994. “Stupid Vietnamese were celebrating Christmas by shooting tracers, fifty-caliber, right up into the air,” Kerry went on, “and the goddamned things were coming right over our head. That was a wild night.” Then, swept up in his rhetorical reverie, Kerry brought the Cambodia story full circle:

“That was a night like right out of Apocalypse Now,” he said.

THE ANTI-KERRY SWIFTIES were in Washington last week, attending planning sessions and break-out panels at the Key Bridge Marriott, across the Potomac river from Washington’s Georgetown neighborhood. They are middle-aged men now, their hair gray or absent, their paunches established, their combat fatigues replaced with golf shirts and khakis. Most are from the Midwest. Politically, they range from conservative Democrat to conservative Republican to independent-minded Perotista. In fact, most dislike politics altogether. “This is not about politics,” one of the veterans, a 61-year-old man from Montgomery, Texas, named Jack Chenoweth told me. “This is about telling the truth.” Van Odell, who in 1969 was Jack Chenoweth’s gunner, said the anti-Kerry vets were making progress. “I feel optimistic,” Odell said. “I felt when we started this thing we’d be a one-day news story. But we’re still here.”

Chenoweth first joined Swift Boat Veterans for Truth last March, when he received a call from John O’Neill. Like most of the anti-Kerry Swifties, Chenoweth has held a low opinion of John Kerry since Vietnam, one that was only reinforced by Kerry’s antiwar activities in the early '70s. When Kerry delivered Senate testimony in April 1971 as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Chenoweth and others were repelled by statements like this one:

Over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. . . . They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

After O’Neill started tracking them down this year, the 250 or so veterans who have joined his effort began to reminisce and compare notes, some of them told me. And they compared their recollections with what they saw on Kerry’s campaign website, as well as after-action reports O’Neill says he obtained from the Navy archives. Looking back from a distance of over 30 years, the veterans say they concluded that, when a firefight was over and Kerry wrote the requisite after-action report, the future presidential candidate bent what had happened to his own advantage. So they put together their own account of events: Unfit for Command.

The book has some conspicuous flaws. O’Neill and his coauthor attack Kerry for accusing veterans of committing war crimes in Vietnam, but then turn around and accuse him of committing the same. They raise the unanswerable question of whether Kerry “deserved” his medals. And, in its own way, the book accepts the same dubious premise that Kerry embraced at his nominating convention: that the American public should judge the 2004 presidential candidate centrally on his military service long ago.

And yet, on August 19, when Kerry addressed the International Association of Fire Fighters, he did not respond to any of the charges made by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. He did attack the group’s integrity, however. “Here’s what you really need to know about them,” Kerry said, his voice rising. “They’re funded by hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Republican contributor out of Texas. They’re a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the president won’t denounce what they’re up to tells you everything you need to know–he wants them to do his dirty work.” Then, late last week, a Kerry campaign spokesman, along with some liberal commentators, urged Regnery, publisher of Unfit for Command, to pull the book, accusing the company of “retailing a hoax.”

So it seems the Kerry wars will continue for some time. A debate over Vietnam was supposed to work to the senator’s advantage, of course. If you watch Kerry on the stump, or read his speeches, or saw him take the stage at the Democratic National Convention, you could be forgiven for thinking that Kerry wanted this election to be a referendum on his experience in the Vietnam War at least as much as he wanted it to be about other issues. With the release of Unfit for Command, he got his wish.

Matthew Continetti is a reporter at The Weekly Standard.

Too many points to go over everything, but a few comments…

If Kerry wasn’t actually “in” Cambodia and was only on the border WHO GIVES A SHIT. Big deal.

The Swifty Boat Liars claim that Kerry hasn’t released his military records while Bush did, are bullshit. There is a long list of documents that Bush refuses to release.

Yes, it’s hard to remember what happened 35 years ago, and then sort out the truth. It’s a whole lot easier and a lot more accurate to look at the official records that were written during that time.

The co-author of the book Jerome Corsi is a scumbag, and you Bushies should be embarrassed about taking him seriously.

Since none of the Swift Boat Liars knew that John Kerry was going to run for president when they were in Vietnam, I find it impossible to believe that any of them paid much attention to him, let alone scrutinizing him and judging his integrity. Also none of these guys were even on the same boat.

Some of the Swift Boat Liars contradict their own previous endorsements of Kerry during his 1996 Senate campaign, as well as official Navy records. Which story should we believe, what they said in the past, or what they say during a hotly-contested presidential race?

The idea that it’s “one guy’s word against another” isn’t true, unless you assume from the very beginning that the medals weren’t deserved and the Navy records aren’t reliable.

Nobody nominates themselves for a medal. Nobody awards themselves a medal. Nobody writes their own evaluations.

Eventually, after this Swift Boat controvesy calms down, watch for a new “terror alert”.

On a related note, a person is considered AWOL if they go missing for any period under 30 days. Bush was AWOL under this definition. However he used his connections to get off the hook. Unlike Kerry’s situation, there are vitually no military records and virtually no witnesses that back up Dubya’s side of the story.

It doesn’t matter how many articles you publish which twist the same half-truths and insinuations of the Corsi crew, it remains a steaming pile of bullshit.

There are records. There are the men who were right there. There is the man whose life was saved. There are statements from these same politically motivated liars. There are admissions of 35 year old enmity because of Kerry’s after war activities. There are proven ties between republicans, republican money and the group of liars. You are indeed blind.

The types of statements being made are half-truths which then get trumped up. If a skinny Iraqi kid is carrying a rifle and shooting at Americans, then he is a dangerous enemy – even if he is caught while moving. How stupid are you to think the size or age of the enemy soldier is truly significant when he has the ability to kill you by twitching his finger?

Other statements include morons claiming they don’t remember any weapons fire. Okay, then the holes in the boat and official records will have to do.

Other statements claim Kerry wounded himself. Sure, it appears that a grenade got him in the butt. However, he wasn’t awarded a purple heart for that – he was awarded the purple heart for shrapnel received in the line of duty. I take it the fact that sometimes people get wounds while doing something is a problem?

All of the statements are fairly mild and tangential. However, they become wildly politicized into a steaming pile of bullshit which people are only too happy to use as character assisination fodder.

In your good 'ol country people are innocent of things until someone comes along with something called proof. You claim it for Bush, you decry it for Kerry. You who do this disgust me. He is a war veteran who put his very life on the line for your sorry self. He deserves a bit more scrutiny into the facts for that action. Sorry, but that is how I feel.

This doesn’t mean I think he has to be the best man for president, or that every single thing he has done has been honest or truthful. He’s a human. He’s a politician. However, it is just plain wrong to go after the man for doing his patriotic duty with half lies and character assisination. It is unconscionable.

Your political system is out of control.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
No, I don’t think it was stronger for Kerry than I claimed. I said it didn’t disprove anything, and that’s exactly where it stands. All I have said about this from the beginning is that it is a battle of eyewitness accounts that will not be proved or disproved 30 years later, and that it is unfortunate. [/quote]

Sorry, but the burden of proof is on the Swift Boat Liars.

So far, they haven’t proved anything.

But in the world of dirty politics, all they have to do is fling some shit around, and someone will cover their story, because the media loves gossip and innuendo.

Lumpy wrote: “But in the world of dirty politics, all they have to do is fling some shit around, and someone will cover their story, because the media loves gossip and innuendo.”

You’ve never written a more truthful sentence.

You know what words/shit come to mind? Words like: Halliburton, AWOL, Supreme Court, Stealing Election…

Thanks for agreeing,

JeffR

Lumpy,

You wrote: “If Kerry wasn’t actually “in” Cambodia and was only on the border WHO GIVES A SHIT. Big deal.”

See 1986 speech where Kerry says that Nixon ordered him into Cambodia. Then, allegedly said that no military was there. Then he said “the experience was seared into him.”

Take the next step in logic, Lumpy.

I’ll give you some help.

If it is false, then what other stories has he embellished?

Many of us look for unscripted moments in a campaign to tell us how our leaders would react in times of duress.

He has unleashed lawyers against radio stations and publishers. He has gone back to his biographer and tried to have the official record changed.

Doesn’t that make you even a little nervous?

This is the cornerstone of his campaign. That is why it matters.

Thanks,

JeffR

P.S. Frankly, I would rather be talking about other issues. Open the documents fully and let’s get this over with, one way or the other.

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109330320331199086,00.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

Vietnam Boomerang
August 24, 2004; Page A12

The issue here, as I have heard it raised, is was he present and active on duty in Alabama at the times he was supposed to be. … Just because you get an honorable discharge does not in fact answer that question.

–John Kerry, questioning President Bush’s military-service record, February 8, 2004.

A good rule in politics is that anyone who picks a fight ought to be prepared to finish it. But having first questioned Mr. Bush’s war service, and then made Vietnam the core of his own campaign for President, Mr. Kerry now cries No mas! because other Vietnam vets are assailing his behavior before and after that war. And, by the way, Mr. Bush is supposedly honor bound to repudiate them.

We’ve tried to avoid the medals-and-ribbons fight ourselves, except to warn Mr. Kerry that he was courting precisely such scrutiny (“Kerry’s Medals Strategy,” February 9). But now that the Senator is demanding that the Federal Election Commission stifle his opponents’ free speech, this one is too rich to ignore.

What did Mr. Kerry expect, anyway? That claiming to be a hero himself while accusing other veterans of “war crimes” – as he did back in 1971 and has refused to take back ever since – would somehow go unanswered? That when he raised the subject of one of America’s most contentious modern events, no one would meet him at the barricades? Mr. Kerry brought the whole thing up; why is it Mr. Bush’s obligation now to shut it down?

Simply because some rich Bush-backers are funding Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is hardly an adequate answer. Some rich Kerry-backers are spending far more to attack Mr. Bush’s record, and the Senator was only too happy to slipstream behind Michael Moore’s smear that Mr. Bush was a Vietnam-era “deserter.”

In any case, anyone who spends five minutes reading the Swift Boat Veterans’ book (“Unfit for Command”) will quickly realize that their attack has nothing to do with Mr. Bush. This is all about Mr. Kerry and what the veterans believe was his blood libel against their service when he told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the spring of 1971 that all American soldiers had committed war crimes as a matter of official policy. “Crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command” were among his incendiary words.

Mr. Kerry has never offered proof of those charges, yet he has never retracted them either. At his recent coronation in Boston he managed the oxymoronic feat of celebrating both his own war-fighting valor and his antiwar activities when he returned home. This is why the Swifties are so incensed, and this is why no less than World War II veteran Bob Dole joined the fray on the weekend to ask that Mr. Kerry apologize for his unproven accusations.

As Bill Lannom of Grinnell, Iowa, one of the Swifties, told the Washington Post last week: “He’s telling untruths about us and his character. He’s talking about atrocities that didn’t happen. And then he’s using that same experience to promote himself. He can’t have it both ways.”

We don’t pretend to know the truth about how Mr. Kerry won his medals. There’s no doubt that he pulled Jim Rassmann from the water (as Mr. Rassmann described recently in our pages), and that he put himself in harm’s way and deserves respect for it. There’s also little doubt that he has exaggerated some of his exploits – especially that Christmas in Cambodia sojourn we now know never happened – even to the strange extent of restaging events while in Vietnam so he could film them for political posterity. Modesty is not one of his virtues, in contrast to Mr. Dole and other modern veteran candidates (George McGovern, George H.W. Bush) who did not flaunt their noble service. But whatever doubts still exist could probably be put to rest if Mr. Kerry simply released all of his service records.

The “war crimes” canard isn’t so easily handled, however. It relates directly to our current effort in Iraq, where U.S. constancy is as much an issue now as it was in Vietnam. Mr. Kerry’s denunciation of the U.S. at that time presaged a career in which he has always been quick to attack the moral and military purposes of American policy – in Central America, against the Soviet Union, and of course during the current Iraq War that he initially voted for. It’s certainly fair to wonder if Mr. Kerry will have the fortitude to fight to victory in Iraq if he does win in November. Or will he call for retreat the way he and so many other liberals did when Vietnam became difficult?

The irony here is that a main reason Mr. Kerry has focused so much on Vietnam is to avoid debating Iraq and the rest of his long record in the Senate. He wants Americans to believe that a four-month wartime biography is credential enough to be commander-in-chief. But a candidate who runs on biography can’t merely pick the months of his life that he likes – any more than a candidate who makes Vietnam the heart of his campaign can confine the resulting debate to his personal home video.

[quote]vroom wrote:
It doesn’t matter how many articles you publish which twist the same half-truths and insinuations of the Corsi crew, it remains a steaming pile of bullshit.[/quote]

Gee, whatever happened to the “Devil’s Advocate” vroom, the guy who thought it was good to weigh both sides of the issue, to examine the possibilities and get to the bottom of things? Seen him around lately? Maybe a moose got to him…

Yes, there are those who were right there who agree with Kerry – and those who were right there who disagree. This is what I’ve said from the beginning.

The “politically motivated liars” part is, I think the most amusing. Aside from the fact that any connection to the Bush campaign is wonderfully interesting speculation [yes, I know about the state-level volunteer for the Bush campaign fired for appearing in the Swift Boat ad – think about that for a moment and see if that buttresses a theory that the national Bush campaign and decision makers were involved in this], and questioning motivation rather than addressing facts is weak, ad hominem argumentation, this is most amusing for reasons I will delve into shortly.

As for “Republican money,” – MY GOD! You mean people who don’t want Kerry to be President might be connected to this?! These people MIGHT ACTUALLY WANT HIM TO LOSE THE ELECTION?! Please, call the press and alert them, as they might ignore this stunning revelation. Last I checked, unless some new facts have come forth, this is an independent 527 org running issue-based ads, which is legal under all campaign-finance laws. Should you have proof otherwise, please call the FEC.

Another point on money – a few hundred thousand dollars from two people, one of whom knows Karl Rove? Give me a break. Firstly, I believe that is less than half of the money raised – the other half coming from small, individual contributions. Refer to my 527 thread, or go to http://www.opensecrets.org – this is small potatoes compared to the money being tossed to left-leaning 527s by Soros and company, for the sole purpose of running ads to defeat Bush. I’ll return to this too.

I agree, this is a dumb complaint from a military standpoint – I think the only reason it’s brought up is because it touches on the “Kerry is lying, generally” theme, not for it’s individual importance. Then again, I haven’t even read the book, much less talked to anyone, so I’m just going off what I have seen on interview shows.

Actually, the claim is that they didn’t remember any enemy gunfire, and apparently there aren’t any holes in the boats – that’s a main plank in the Swiftboats’ story, the fact that even though the after-action report claims they were under fire from both sides of the river for 3 miles, there are no holes in the boats and no one was hit. They claim that the Americans were firing – and fired about 400 rounds apiece from their machine guns – in case there was anyone out there, but that they did not come under enemy fire.

Actually, you’re wrong here – he received 3 purple hearts, and 2 of them may have been from self-inflicted (not intentionally, but that is beside the point – trust me) wounds. [EDIT: I misstated the requirements for receiving a purple heart because I was mistaken in my understanding. Apparently, the requirement is more nuanced than I had realized. While it is generally required that the injury for which one receives a Purple Heart be from enemy fire, in certain circumstances an injury from friendly fire can qualify for a Purple Heart. I have been informed that friendly fire during “the heat of battle” can qualify. I have no idea how throwing a grenade into a rice container with no actual enemies in view fits into this, so I don’t know whether John Kerry’s self-inflicted wounds would qualify.]

This matters because of the rules relating to the awarding of purple hearts. See, you don’t get a purple heart when you’re wounded by friendly fire – they are only available if you are wounded by enemy fire.

There was a rule by which a soldier who received 3 purple hearts got to go home. Kerry availed himself of this rule, and went home. More on this below too.

Politics is funny that way – when you introduce a bunch of crap – when you endorse innuendo and half-truths (Michael Moore by Terry McCauliffe, for example)(What happened, referencing Moore, to arguments that people are allowed to present their point of view?) – when you question “official records” (Does the phrases “honorable discharge” or “payroll records” ring any bells) – when you make activities of 35 years ago and your Viet Nam resume the centerpiece of your campaign – people tend to discount your complaints.

And this is where it all comes together. Apparently a moose did get to the ol’ gadfly vroom, and in his place left this preachy, sanctimonious person who has forgotten all of what he previously endorsed.

Firstly, I do believe I’m aware, given my profession, of the legal standard for criminal conviction. However, politics isn’t a court of law, and people, in their beliefs, are free to think what they want. Even if someone is acquitted on a criminal trial people can still think he did it – ever hear of O.J.? See, the “innocent until proven guilty” standard means that the government cannot punish you until you have been properly convicted by a jury of your peers in a court of law, with all the proper evidentiary standards and whatnot. It does not mean people cannot form opinions based on the evidence at hand.

Now, if you actually believed the crap you just spewed about how everyone should be perceived as “innocent until proven guilty,” that would be one thing, and I could respect that. However, why don’t you go look up your posts from the threads back when people were questioning Bush’s service in the air guard. I’m not going to look them up – just summarize from memory – but feel free to correct me if I am mistaken in my recollection:

Irrespective of the payroll records and service records, it was important to look deeper into things and not take the available record at face value; missing records should be presumed to have been destroyed through foul play rather than assuming a bureaucratic mistake (or normal document retention policy) from one of the many (at least 3) institutions in charge of those records; in addition, anything missing, given the above presumption of active removal, meant there must be something to hide; and, my favorite, that, if Lt. Jr. W. had been following orders or had gotten permission from his commanding officer to be absent, and it turned out that the commanding officer had not had the technical authority to grant a leave of absence, a knowledge of that lack of authority should be imputed to Lt. Jr. W. and he should be held strictly accountable for any technical violation that resulted, irrespective of his having gotten permission from his commanding officer.

Sure sounds like “innocent until proven guilty” to me…

Now, on your whole “morally offended” position on war veterans. Has it not occurred to you that each of the over 250 members of the Swiftboat Vets organization is a veteran who did war service and has an opinion on this? Each one is endorsing a “closer look into the facts” as you say, but, unfortunately, what they are receiving is innuendo and character assassination from Kerry’s defenders? The moral high-horse of the veteran doesn’t seem to work as well as you imply when 1) it is other combat veterans doing the questioning; and 2) The main defense proferred thus far has been to attack the character and motivation of those veterans while disdaining to give their stories any shrift whatsoever.

This is a summary of the defense:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerryspot.asp

[Excerpt, no permalink available]

Swift Boat Vets: Kerry was a egomaniacal jerk who turned three minor cuts and abrasions into three Purple Hearts, wasn’t trusted by his fellow officers, and stabbed his “band of brothers” in the back by calling them war criminals when he got back.

Kerry defenders: You don’t know that! You weren’t on the boat with him!

Swift Boat Vets: We were on boats right next to him. And Steven Gardner was.

Kerry defenders: Gardner doesn’t count! And you guys don’t count! Only the people on the boat really know what Kerry was like in Vietnam!

Chicago Tribune editor William Root: I was on a boat next to him on one important day, and I say Kerry’s story is true.

Kerry defenders: See, the matter is settled!

Swift Boat Vets: Wait, he was on the next boat over. Why is his testimony trustworthy, but not ours?

Kerry defenders: Only Root’s testimony counts! Everybody else who wasn’t in the boat with Kerry doesn’t count![end excerpt]

So please, spare me the whole “holier than thou” Canadian crap.

From the beginning, I have not been sitting here arguing that what the Swiftboat Vets are saying must be true. All I have said is that it seems to be dueling eyewitness reports from 35 years ago that won’t be easily resolved. I haven’t called Kerry a liar, and I haven’t endorsed anything other than the fact the Swiftboat veterans story cannot be disproved. Sorry if I fail to denounce this group of veterans, and their claims that have not been disproved. I haven’t denounced Kerry’s claims either, as the Swiftboat vets haven’t proved their claims, either. As far as I’ve gone is to call for Kerry to release all of his records – which he has not done.

Basically, it’s a matter of free political speech. This veteran’s group has the right to express itself. Attacks on its motivation seem to me to be desperate, shoddy argumentation – the kind that people engage in when they don’t want to deal with the factual claims.

This is somewhat understandable given the difficulty of dealing with the factual allegations after 30 years’ time, but I would only really say that if Kerry had released all his records, which he refuses to do. It seems to me that he could sign the form and have the Navy release his records very easily, so there must be a reason for him not to do so. I don’t know what the reason is. His private diaries are another matter, but again, I think that if they were a positive, he would release them.

So, in summary of my position, to make it easy for you to reference:

  1. Factual disputes likely incapable of resolution in most cases, given info presently available;
  2. Kerry has more info that he won’t release, which I find troubling.

[quote]This doesn’t mean I think he has to be the best man for president, or that every single thing he has done has been honest or truthful. He’s a human. He’s a politician. However, it is just plain wrong to go after the man for doing his patriotic duty with half lies and character assisination. It is unconscionable.

Your political system is out of control.[/quote]

Once again, your pious denunciations would be on firmer ground if you hadn’t been sitting there advocating questioning Bush for doing his patriotic duty, when the accusations amounted to half-truths and character assassination funded by strident anti-Bush folks via 527 organizations. When these left-wing 527s were following the play book against Bush, it was “Bring it On!” When an anti-Kerry 527 follows the playbook agains Kerry, it’s “No Mas!”

On our system being out of control now, perhaps it is. We are biased toward free speech, even if it offends delicate Canadian sensibilities. This means we are biased against “control,” in the sense that we let people speak, criticize, make claims, etc., and let the truth be sorted out via debate.

But don’t think that the Republicans are pioneering the type of free speech that looks into people’s service records. They’re actually just following form. The last two Republican presidential candidates with combat records found their service questioned during the campaign. Of course, it was by journalists, and not a group of veterans, so they didn’t have the same power, but allow me to introduce you to this history:

The Nation, questioning Dole’s war record and heroism in 1996:

http://www.tedellis.net/dole-article.htm

The Nation, questioning H.W. Bush’s war record in 1992:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerryspot.asp

[excerpt, no permalink available]
October 12, 1992 New Republic (sorry, not online).

A familiar name, Sidney Blumenthal, is examining President George Herbert Walker Bush’s war record. This is a long excerpt, with a few of Blumenthals’ extraneous thoughts about Clinton, Vietnam, and Bush on the campaign trial omitted:

Since the first day of the Republican convention there has been no issue emphasized more by the Republicans than Bill Clinton's draft record... From August 25 to September 21 the Bush-Quayle campaign fired off eighteen press releases attacking Clinton on the draft. The issue also points to... deeply troubling feelings from his past that Bush has wished to submerge for five decades.

George Bush was a 17-year-old student at Phillips Academy in Andover when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He wanted to join the military at once. Secretary of War Henry Stimson, the president of the prep school's board of trustees and a friend of Prescott Bush, delivered a speech to the students urging them to remain in school. George's parents and teachers persuaded him to graduate, but immediately afterward he enlisted in the Naval Air Corps, becoming one of the youngest pilots. "I couldn't wait for my 18th birthday," he told U.S. News & Wolrd Report in 1987. He was trained to fly a new torpedo bomber, the Avenger, which was specially built to make emergency landings on water. Bush's base was the San Jacinto aircraft carrier, from where he made many runs. Indeed, his plane was hit once, and he made a successful water landing. The Avenger proved itself seaworthy enough for the three crew members to paddle in a raft to a rescuing destroyer, singing "Over the Bounding Main."

On September 2, 1944 - the day Bush experienced what he has called "the most dramatic individual moment of my life" - he flew off the San Jacinto in a squadron attack on a Japanese radio installation on Chichi Jima island. While approaching the target, his plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire. What followed is subject to disputed accounts and may never be truly known. Yet, over time, it has become the center of Bush's political legend as the hero-pilot, a commander in chief in whom we trust. According to the intelligence report approved sometime later by the squadron leader (it was oddly undated), Bush's plane was enveloped in "smoke and flames," and "Bush and one other person were seen to bail out... Bush's chute opened and he landed safely in water... The chute of the other person ... who bailed out did not open." The plane crashed into the sea and sank. Both John Delaney and Ted White were reported missing in action, presumed dead. The report added a cautionary note: "Bush has not yet been returned to squadron by rescue sub, so this information is incomplete."

The confidential log of the USS Finback, the sub that picked up Bush, recorded on the day of the incident that at 11:56 a.m. Bush "stated that he failed to see his crew's parachutes and believed they had jumped when plane was still over Chichi Jima, or they had gone down with plane." At 4:20 that afternoon, the Finback picked up another downed pilot, James Beckman, who, according to the log, "stated that it was known that only one mail had parachuted from Bush's plane" - namely Bush. The log concluded: "This decided us to discontinue any further search of that area...."

Bush spent eight weeks on the submarine before being reunited with his squadron. Back in the Ready Room on the San Jacinto, he sought out Chester Mierzejewski, who had been the tail gunner on the plane just ahead of Bush's when it had been hit - the man with the clearest view, only 100 feet away.

Mierzejewski had been particularly close to Delaney. And Bush seemed to want to answer the agonizing unasked questions: Why didn't he make a water landing? Why was he the only one to jump? Did he panic? "Look," Mierzejewski told me Bush said to him, "I'm sure the two of them in the back were dead. I called them three times and got no answer." (Given the construction of the Avenger, it was impossible for the pilot, shielded by an armor plate, to see the crew; the only communication would have been by radio.)

Bush was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for his action at Chichi Jima, but he evidently was filled with the remorse of the survivor. "You mention in your letter that you would like to help me in some way," wrote Mary Jane Delaney, the sister of one of those killed. "There is a way, and that is to stop thinking you are in any way responsible for your plane accident and what has happened to your men." (The letter is published in Flight of the Avenger: George Bush at War by Joe Hyams.) "I try to think about it as little as possible, yet I cannot get the thought of those two out of my mind," Bush wrote to his parents - a letter he cites in his autobiography, Looking Forward.

Whether responsible or not for what befell his companions, he felt - admirably - responsible.

In 1980, campaigning for president, Bush spotted Mierzejewski, who was about to retire as a foreman from the Pratt and Whitney aircraft plant, at a rally in Meriden, Connecticut. "I'm glad to see him," said Bush, calling attention to his old war buddy from the podium, according to an article in the Meriden Record-Journal "Those were heroic times." In December 1987 Mierzejewski settled down in his living room to watch Bush, running again, be interviewed by David Frost. He was startled to hear the presidential candidate retell his war story, the one about how the plane was "in smoke and the wings were burning"; and how, of the two crewmen, "one of them got out. I think the other was killed in the plane."

This was not what Bush had told Mierzejewski in the Ready Room. Bush had related that he had called them three times - and he insisted that before he deserted the cockpit he was convinced that the two men must have been dead. Now Bush was saving on national T.V. that one of the men got out. "I never saw anyone else coming out of the plane," Mierzejewski told me. "It seems he Bush was awfully anxious to open that parachute. But I couldn't guess if those guys were alive. If the people are possibly alive, he was supposed to try to make a water landing. But I'm not in his mind." Mierzejewski now thought that Bush had "told me" that the men were dead as if he was justifying to me why he was bailing out himself." And why, he wondered, was Bush talking about smoke and fire? Mierzejewski had witnessed only a "puff of smoke" after Bush's plane had been hit - not billows of smoke and flames, certainly no smoke in the cockpit.

Bush's latest account, he decided, was not right. So he wrote the vice president an anxious letter: "These recollections are entirely different from my recall of the incident... I do not want to see your campaign hurt... I do not intend to dispute you in public." But he received no reply.

Mierzejewski's neighbor, a lawyer to whom he had confided his story, contacted the New York Post, whose reporter in turn contacted Mierzejewski. On August 12, 1988, the first day of the GOP convention in New Orleans, the newspaper published a front-page story, THE DAY BUSH BAILED OUT, by Allan Wolper and Al Ellenberg, which laid out Mierzejewski's claims. Some of the other crewmen substantiated a number of his details, including that he had the best view. The article noted that Mierzejewski was upset that though he was interviewed by the officer who wrote the intelligence report, his account was not included in it.

The Bush campaign responded to the story by circulating the intelligence report to the press. A spokesman called Mierzejewski's version "absurd." (None of the articles on the event observed that the intelligence report contradicted not only Mierzejewski's story but also the Finback log.) Then the coup de grace was delivered by Michael Dukakis, who remarked: "I don't think that kind of thing has any place in the campaign." Bush's wish was his command. Never again during the presidential race was the story raised.

Yet, during the contest, Bush published two campaign autobiographies containing divergent accounts of his war experience. In Looking Forward (written with Victor Gold, a friend and adviser), Bush described telling Delaney and White to "bail out" and jumping himself. "I looked around for Delaney and White, but the only thing in sight was my parachute drifting away." This story seemed to square with what Bush had related oil the Finback and to Mierzejewski. But in Man of Integrity (written with Doug Wead, Bush's liaison to the eligious right), he presented a radically different version. "I thought I was a goner," Bush recounted here. "I looked back and saw that my rear gunner was out. He had been machine-gunned to death right where he was. So then I turned back over the water and we bailed out. "But Delaney did not survive. "He was evidently cut to ribbons as he parachuted down. I was luckier."

In 1991 two books celebrated Bush's exploits as warrior-aviator, just as he was being celebrated as the victor in the Gulf war. Joe Hyams published Flight of the Avenger with "the cooperation of the president," which neglected to mention Mierzejewski and his story. Robert Stinnett, who had flown with Bush in his plane during the war as a Navy photographer, produced George Bush: His World War II Years, which attempted to refute Mierzejewski by citing four crew-member accounts, which disagreed with Mierzejewski's version, but did not quote the crew members reported in the New York Post who affirmed a number of Mierzejewski's particulars. Bush's story seemed intact...

What really happened at Chichi Jima will never finally be resolved. Were the men really dead when Bush jumped? Did one man parachute out? Why did the intelligence report say one thing and the Finback log another? And why have Bush's versions changed over time? Bush's experience in the Good War was more tortured and his accounts more tortuous than he now admits.

"I don't want to think about it," said Chester Mierzejewski. "I don't want to get involved politically." Still, he sees the attacks on Clinton as cynical in the light of what he has come to believe about the event of long ago. "I knew two guys who would be glad if George Bush had been a draft-dodger," he told me.

What we do know, in the end, is that terrible things happen in wartime; that the young Bush was consumed with doubt and pain; that the older Bush has presented a simple, unambiguous, but contradicting, story; and that he has directed his campaign to project onto Clinton's youthful grapplings with a very different war the harsh image of the evader.

Now, one can believe that Sid Blumenthal’s article, citing Mierzejewski and some differing versions of Bush’s story raises legitimate questions about the former president. And one can believe that the Swift Boat Vets for Truth, all 264 of them and their sworn affidavits, along with Kerry’s Christmas in Cambodia story, raise legitimate questions about Kerry. But it is hard to contend that the former is legitimate hard-nosed journalism while the latter is just a smear campaign.[end excerpt]

Basically, get off your high horse, and feel free to get back to me when you can do so without getting your panties in a wad and calling everyone names.

"Kerry’s campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound…

Kerry received Purple Heart for wounds suffered on 12/2/68…

In Kerry’s own journal written 9 days later, he writes he and his crew, quote, ‘hadn’t been shot at yet’… Developing…"

thanks,

me

Interesting article analyzing the Bronze star stuff here:

Similar, L-O-N-G post examining the available military records here:

http://armor.typepad.com/bastardsword/2004/08/kerry_part_lxvi.html

Clear and concise. Thank you BB. Great links.

[quote]Lumpy wrote:
Too many points to go over everything, but a few comments…

If Kerry wasn’t actually “in” Cambodia and was only on the border WHO GIVES A SHIT. Big deal.

[/quote]

Since you asked:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html?referrer=emailarticle

Kerry’s Cambodia Whopper

By Joshua Muravchik
Tuesday, August 24, 2004; Page A17

Most of the debate between the former shipmates who swear by John Kerry and the group of other Swift boat veterans who are attacking his military record focuses on matters that few of us have the experience or the moral standing to judge. But one issue, having nothing to do with medals, wounds or bravery under fire, goes to the heart of Kerry’s qualifications for the presidency and is therefore something that each of us must consider. That is Kerry’s apparently fabricated claim that he fought in Cambodia.

It is an assertion he made first, insofar as the written record reveals, in 1979 in a letter to the Boston Herald. Since then he has repeated it on at least eight occasions during Senate debate or in news interviews, most recently to The Post this year (an interview posted on Kerry’s Web site). The most dramatic iteration came on the floor of the Senate in 1986, when he made it the centerpiece of a carefully prepared 20-minute oration against aid to the Nicaraguan contras.

Kerry argued that contra aid could put the United States on the path to deeper involvement despite denials by the Reagan administration of any such intent. Kerry began by reading out similar denials regarding Vietnam from presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. Then he offered this devastating riposte:

“I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared – seared – in me.”

However seared he was, Kerry’s spokesmen now say his memory was faulty. When the Swift boat veterans who oppose Kerry presented statements from his commanders and members of his unit denying that his boat entered Cambodia, none of Kerry’s shipmates came forward, as they had on other issues, to corroborate his account. Two weeks ago Kerry’s spokesmen began to backtrack. First, one campaign aide explained that Kerry had patrolled the Mekong Delta somewhere “between” Cambodia and Vietnam. But there is no between; there is a border. Then another spokesman told reporters that Kerry had been “near Cambodia.” But the point of Kerry’s 1986 speech was that he personally had taken part in a secret and illegal war in a neutral country. That was only true if he was “in Cambodia,” as he had often said he was. If he was merely “near,” then his deliberate misstatement falsified the entire speech.

Next, the campaign leaked a new version through the medium of historian Douglas Brinkley, author of “Tour of Duty,” a laudatory book on Kerry’s military service. Last week Brinkley told the London Telegraph that while Kerry had been 50 miles from the border on Christmas, he “went into Cambodian waters three or four times in January and February 1969 on clandestine missions.” Oddly, though, while Brinkley devotes nearly 100 pages of his book to Kerry’s activities that January and February, pinpointing the locations of various battles and often placing Kerry near Cambodia, he nowhere mentions Kerry’s crossing into Cambodia, an inconceivable omission if it were true.

Now a new official statement from the campaign undercuts Brinkley. It offers a minimal (thus harder to impeach) claim: that Kerry “on one occasion crossed into Cambodia,” on an unspecified date. But at least two of the shipmates who are supporting Kerry’s campaign (and one who is not) deny their boat ever crossed the border, and their testimony on this score is corroborated by Kerry’s own journal, kept while on duty. One passage reproduced in Brinkley’s book says: “The banks of the [Rach Giang Thanh River] whistled by as we churned out mile after mile at full speed. On my left were occasional open fields that allowed us a clear view into Cambodia. At some points, the border was only fifty yards away and it then would meander out to several hundred or even as much as a thousand yards away, always making one wonder what lay on the other side.” His curiosity was never satisfied, because this entry was from Kerry’s final mission.

After his discharge, Kerry became the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Once, he presented to Congress the accounts by his VVAW comrades of having “personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires . . . to human genitals . . . razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan . . . poisoned foodstocks.” Later it was shown that many of the stories on which Kerry based this testimony were false, some told by impostors who had stolen the identities of real GIs, but Kerry himself was not implicated in the fraud. And his own over-the-top generalization that such “crimes [were] committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command” could be charged up to youthfulness and the fevers of the times.

But Kerry has repeated his Cambodia tale throughout his adult life. He has claimed that the epiphany he had that Christmas of 1968 was about truthfulness. “One of the things that most struck me about Vietnam was how people were lied to,” he explained in a subsequent interview. If – as seems almost surely the case – Kerry himself has lied about what he did in Vietnam, and has done so not merely to spice his biography but to influence national policy, then he is surely not the kind of man we want as our president.

The writer is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

One more item, from Wisconsin law professor Ann Althouse (former Gore voter no less):

“When those connections are made in this campaign and are imputed to this president, it’s going to be a very bad thing for the president.”[quoting the New York Times]

The NYT reports on the Kerry response to the Swift Boat Veterans ad:

[Quote from NYT]"Mr. Kerry's advisers said they believed that voters would turn against Mr. Bush if they were convinced that he was behind what several described as unethical campaign behavior."[End of NYT quote]

That’s an interesting “if,” because it means that if Bush is not behind the ads, it suggests a hope of gaining the advantage by creating the impression that there is a connection.

[Quote from NYT] A senior Kerry adviser, Tad Devine, said in an interview that there had been a number of instances over the years in which outside groups had run damaging advertisements against Democrats in races involving Mr. Bush or his father.

"When those connections are made in this campaign and are imputed to this president, it's going to be a very bad thing for the president," Mr. Devine said.[End of NYT quote]

How is this not an open admission of a smear campaign against Bush?

[Quote from NYT]Bill Carrick, a Democratic strategist who is not involved in the presidential race, also said: "It may be voters presume there are two sides in this contest and one side is attacking the other and they blame Bush for the attacks."[End of NYT quote]

So it seems that Kerry’s idea for how to deal with this huge Swift Boat Veterans problem is to churn up a swirly mass of impressions and imputations and then hope that he is the one who looks clean in the end. The Kerry people seem to be hoping that people are too dim to understand that a group of Bush supporters could operate independently or conspiracy-minded enough to think they all coordinate behind the scenes in plain violation of the law. There is a separate point Kerry has made that Bush should openly denounce the ads and that his failure to do so signifies a willingness to reap the advantages they bring him. That’s the clean point, but it has been made, and it apparently hasn’t done well enough, because we now see the campaign boat steering over the border into right-wing-conspiracy land.

But what is the solution for Kerry? I’m sure his people are racking their brains now. But they should have thought this through earlier, back when they were so sure that if the candidate stood up at the convention as a war hero that he would be greeted with candy and flowers. They convinced each other that what they wanted to believe was true, and, as a consequence they never had a plan for how to deal with the attacks that they should have known were there.

posted by Ann Althouse at 8:32 AM

BB,

The direct quote from Kerry’s own journal is devastating.

His own journal!!!

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Lumpy wrote: “But in the world of dirty politics, all they have to do is fling some shit around, and someone will cover their story, because the media loves gossip and innuendo.”

You’ve never written a more truthful sentence.

You know what words/shit come to mind? Words like: Halliburton, AWOL, Supreme Court, Stealing Election…[/quote]

JeffR
Halliburton is under investigation by the Department of Justice, for bilking taxpayers out of milions of dolars in Iraq.

WHICH PARTY CONTROLS THE DEPT. OF JUSTICE?

Ever hear of a guy named “John Ashcroft”?

Maybe he’s in on a conspiracy to smear Halliburton?

Quit dropping the dumbells on your head, buddy!

[quote]JeffR wrote:
See 1986 speech where Kerry says that Nixon ordered him into Cambodia. Then, allegedly said that no military was there. Then he said “the experience was seared into him.”

Take the next step in logic, Lumpy.
[/quote]

The next step in logic is that I realize you’re a dolt.

You say Nixon called Kerry and told him to go to Cambodia?

Don’t drop the dumbells on your head, buddy.

Interesting stuff relating citation of Kerry for Silver Star. Don’t know what to make of it, and the lede paragraphs seem overstated, but it is still interesting:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14774