Feminization of American Boys

Off Topic
61

[quote]PGJ wrote:
This IS a political issue. Political correctness. Everything has to be equal. We have to be ultacareful not to hurt someones poor feelings. You’re fat, it’s not your fault. Can’t get a job, it’s not your fault. Kill your kids, it’s not your fault (that freakin’ mother who killed 5 of her kids was found not guilty today!) Go to a school board meeting and tell me it’s not political. When California forces kindergarteners to learn about homosexuality, THAT is political. When public worship of God is forbidden because we don’t want to offend the satanists or athiests, that is political. When a Governor is widely criticized for his use of the term “girlie men” to describe indecisive, spineless elected officials, that is political. When people sue their school districts because their child was “forced” to read something from the bible, but are fine with distributing condoms and gay school clubs, that is political. Who are the people responsible for this rejection of traditional values? If the de-masculining of America isn’t political, then what is it? It’s not a social thing like baggy pants and wifebeater shirts. Someone somewhere forced this PC crap on us. The OP asked for our thoughts. These are mine. What’s your solution?[/quote]

If you want to waste your effort on some vast left vs right struggle, go right ahead.

This thread is about the feminization of America… which can’t just be conveniently dumped at the feet of the opposing political viewpoint.

Vague concepts of equality don’t mean that men should be belittled. They don’t mean that men and women are the same.

I no more have a solution than you do, but it stinks, on that we can agree.

62

So you’d be fine with your children being forced to read from the Koran and to pray to Allah five times a day?

Beef

63

Lets face it,Corporate America loves feminized men because they are easy to control.And as for the School system,in my childrens schools,there are only a few men that are good examples or role models for the kids.The Principals and most men teachers are suck ass wimps just there to collect a paycheck trying to do as little as possible and avoiding any problems etc.

And these men are most if not all Conservatives.In my neck of the woods the Conservatives are the Wimps that follow anything as long as the rest of the group is doing it.I guess they cant think for themselves,they have a group mentality.

64

[quote]ron33 wrote:
Lets face it,Corporate America loves feminized men because they are easy to control.And as for the School system,in my childrens schools,there are only a few men that are good examples or role models for the kids.The Principals and most men teachers are suck ass wimps just there to collect a paycheck trying to do as little as possible and avoiding any problems etc.

And these men are most if not all Conservatives.In my neck of the woods the Conservatives are the Wimps that follow anything as long as the rest of the group is doing it.I guess they cant think for themselves,they have a group mentality.[/quote]

Welcome to Earth. What planet do you live on?

65

When public worship of God is forbidden because we don’t want to offend the satanists or athiests, that is political.

Well, there is that pesky First Amendment that gets in the way of anyone pushing their religious beliefs.

Oh, and it’s not as black and white as you make it sound. I am neither an atheist nor a satanist. I just can’t stand organized religion. I have my own beliefs and keep them to myself. You have yours, keep them to yourself. It’s simple really.

And last time I checked, there is no law that prohibits you from worshipping any way you like in private. Why must it be public? So you can show everyone how holy you are? Please.

66

I believe that the solution, lies in all of us. (men) If we all begin to return to manhood, what it is supposed to be, and deal with the initial shock and pain from it, (bitching, lack of sex for a while, people lashing out at us actually using our testicles and not merely possessing them) then other, weaker guys would take the hint and follow.

If there were more men for the children to take examples from, they wouldn’t need the feminist example of a man, or the tv example of a man, or the rapper example of a man.

The solution is a return of men into active society, not just guys watching society pass them by. When I was growing up, my dad was always working. I understand he had to pay the bills, and support the family, but he never made it to my baseball games, or tournaments, etc… I was lucky enough to have a grandfather to fill in his shoes, and show me how men were supposed to be.

If all the children in society had this, and those men stood up to the social and feminist pressures to emasculate the men, the children would follow suit and perhaps in a generation we could change the tide in a positive manner.

The men in this society are the problem, (men, not t-men from what I can tell) we allow the women to dominate us. We care about what people think about us, and don’t do what we know we should because of that. If we were to look back on some of the greatest men in history, they were what we would all call men, and they were dominated nor domesticated by any woman.

The sexual revolution changed everything in the way men and women functioned. Once upon a time a man had to marry for sex, there was strict dogma about being faithful, and on how man should treat woman, and how woman should treat man.

As soon as a woman could have sex with who she wanted, instead of who she married, men no longer had to make that commitment to have sex. Taking away the responsibilty behind the pleasure, spoiled it for society.

In the span of approzimately 40 years, look at the downturn society has taken. I was in the local chipotle and saw a 15 year old girl with low rise jeans, thong sticking out, and a shirt cut so low with no bra so you could see everything. If this is thrown into mens faces, without any responsibilty or commitment other than the pleasure, why would young men commit themselves?

There is absolutely no point in it. What man will make a life long commitment with a woman who presents herself in this regard? Or any woman for that matter, when he can walk into chipotle for a burrito and find another. It is perfectly okay to have a disagreement with your other, break it off or divorce her, move on to the next woman and repeat the process. This is the pussyfication of America.

Without responsiblity, pride and respect, (and how could young men have this when its not expected of them nor taught to them) how can we expect them to be men?

67

Is todays metrosexual any different from the hippies of the 60’s and 70’s, or the brooding grunge kids of the late 80’s and 90’s? It seems every generation has a stereotype breaking the traditions of masculinity??? I do think there is a feminism hangover that is slowly going to recede slowly over time…

68

One good thing that came out of three summers at Bible camp was a seminar by this guy out of the states who believed that the problems of western society aren’t caused by feminism, the sexual revolution, Liberalism, or any of the thing typically blamed by Conservatives.

His position was that the West has been raised by a generation of men who did not have the opportunity to learn how to be fathers.

During the second world war, a large portion of men between their early teens and mid-20s were drafted into Western armies, taken away from their fathers, traumatized by horrific experiences, and exposed to the “male role models” of their drill instructors and commanders.

Now this is a crucial period of development where people learn roles and develop a set of personal morality. The bloodiest conflict in history is the farthest thing from an ideal environment to learn about fatherhood and family responsibility.

So these men came back from the war and what really marks that generation? Vices used to treat depression/anxiety like cigarettes and alcohol, living a militaristic lifestyle of work, eat, sleep, work, eat, sleep.

Then they pump out five kids with their war bride and since they left at 16 and came back at 21, married to their Dutch sweetheart, it’s a little late for Daddy to teach by example.

How do they raise their kids? Pretty much by ignoring them. That’s “women’s work” (speaking of “women’s work”, after WW2 there was an ultrachauvenist backlash against the freedom of women out of fear that they would become “too masculine” by doing things like, say, working at respectable jobs). Riding the post-war trend of hypermasculinization/hyperfeminization of the genders, the men just worked, worked, worked, and mostly stayed out of the kids’ lives, while the women took full responsibility for childrearing and housekeeping.

Now you have a generation of kids (the baby boomers) raised by men who never learned how to be fathers. No wonder why things are fucked up.

Morals? Values? Responsibility? Screw it, man! That’s for squares.

69

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
mikeh3 wrote:

The Bible is very clear that sex between two married people is great (and it is, I might add - read the Song of Solomon.)

And if you look closely, it doesn’t say anything anywhere about sex between two unmarried people. So pre-marital sex = yes. Good Bible! :smiley:

Beef[/quote]

Actually it does, it says don’t have sex out of wedlock. So, pre-marital sex = no.

70

Celebration of masculinity doesn’t mean the degradation of femininity. Call it androgyny, if you will, I think we all need a good balance of both facets to be complete people. I don’t like the idea of throwing the baby out with the bathwater anymore than simply repressing people one way or the other.

71

[quote]El_Animal wrote:
Lol what the fuck is vanilla?[/quote]

I will assume that you are asking that question genuinely.

When people refer to something as being ‘vanilla’ they mean something along the lines of plain, simple, basic, common or even boring.

It is a reference taken from ice cream with vanilla being considered the plain and boring flavour.

To use an analogy, Mens Health would be cosnidered vanilla, while T-Nation would be triple choc butterscotch fudge.

I have explained that very poorly but I hope it makes a bit of sense.

72

Ok well this is just an example of how shitty things can be.

I actually took swats my senior year of highschool for “Practicing to hard in basketball practice” I shit you not. No other reason than that. My dad who was the highschool baseball coach went nuts after he found out.

I hate pussys who actually punish people for trying their hardest.

Luckly my intensity was well recieved in collegiate athletics.

73

Screw this - I say let’s bring up the GIRLS to be MORE MANLY.

Or at least get them lifting weights.

Compulsory weightlifting in all schools for all sexes.

Let their improved strength and confidence take care of the rest.

74

[quote]vroom wrote:
PGJ wrote:
This IS a political issue. Political correctness. Everything has to be equal. We have to be ultacareful not to hurt someones poor feelings. You’re fat, it’s not your fault. Can’t get a job, it’s not your fault. Kill your kids, it’s not your fault (that freakin’ mother who killed 5 of her kids was found not guilty today!) Go to a school board meeting and tell me it’s not political. When California forces kindergarteners to learn about homosexuality, THAT is political. When public worship of God is forbidden because we don’t want to offend the satanists or athiests, that is political. When a Governor is widely criticized for his use of the term “girlie men” to describe indecisive, spineless elected officials, that is political. When people sue their school districts because their child was “forced” to read something from the bible, but are fine with distributing condoms and gay school clubs, that is political. Who are the people responsible for this rejection of traditional values? If the de-masculining of America isn’t political, then what is it? It’s not a social thing like baggy pants and wifebeater shirts. Someone somewhere forced this PC crap on us. The OP asked for our thoughts. These are mine. What’s your solution?

If you want to waste your effort on some vast left vs right struggle, go right ahead.

This thread is about the feminization of America… which can’t just be conveniently dumped at the feet of the opposing political viewpoint.

Vague concepts of equality don’t mean that men should be belittled. They don’t mean that men and women are the same.

I no more have a solution than you do, but it stinks, on that we can agree.[/quote]

I’ll drop the political slant. I quit going to the Politics board because I get very worked up and wasted a lot of time there.

We agree there is a problem. My solution is there need to be more men in schools. Unfortunately, teachers don’t make enough to support a family, so most find other jobs. That’s why it’s a female dominated profession (single women or women woking for a second family income). I visit my kids school all the time. It’s amazing the reaction I get. I swear, some of these kids have NO male role model in their life. Many are from broken homes with no father figure and spend lots of time in daycare (another female dominated profession). Men need to step up. A dead-beat dad is as bad as a rapist (when you think about it, that’s what they really are).

Don’t watch those shows that belittle men or glorify homosexuality.

Don’t punish your kid just because he got in trouble at school. If your kid got in trouble for punching a bully who was threatening him or someone else, tell him he did the right thing despite what the old ladies at school say.

Teach your son how to defend himself and explain when it’s appropriate to use physical force.

MAKE YOUR KID PLAY TEAM SPORTS. This, to me is extremely important. Get his ass off the couch and out on the field. Avoid individual sports (tennis, swimming, gymnastics…). They need to learn teamwork, unselfishness, and dependability. Getting knocked down hard in football, or taking a baseball short-hop in the stomach will do wonders for his confidence, determination and toughness. And don’t pussy him when it happens. If it’s a real emergency, of course do whatever you have to do. But mostly the kid is scared, stunned and shocked (no real damage). As a coach, I always encourage my kids to get back in there. Once they realize that there is no sympathy or “mama-treatment” they shake it off.

Mainly, it’s our job as men, husbands, fathers, and citizens to set the tone. If you don’t act like a big puss, your son probably won’t either. Even if you are not a dad, remember that kids are watching.

That’s my non-political solution.

75

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
When people sue their school districts because their child was “forced” to read something from the bible…

So you’d be fine with your children being forced to read from the Koran and to pray to Allah five times a day?

Beef[/quote]

I didn’t say anything about forced prayer. Show me where someone was FORCED to pray. And no, I wouldn’t have a problem with my child reading passages from the Koran as long as it’s presented as a literature, not scripture. Listen, young man. You don’t have kids and are unqualified to question my views. When you grow up and have kids of your own, I GUARANTEE your opinion will change.

76

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
One good thing that came out of three summers at Bible camp was a seminar by this guy out of the states who believed that the problems of western society aren’t caused by feminism, the sexual revolution, Liberalism, or any of the thing typically blamed by Conservatives.

His position was that the West has been raised by a generation of men who did not have the opportunity to learn how to be fathers.

During the second world war, a large portion of men between their early teens and mid-20s were drafted into Western armies, taken away from their fathers, traumatized by horrific experiences, and exposed to the “male role models” of their drill instructors and commanders.

Now this is a crucial period of development where people learn roles and develop a set of personal morality. The bloodiest conflict in history is the farthest thing from an ideal environment to learn about fatherhood and family responsibility.

So these men came back from the war and what really marks that generation? Vices used to treat depression/anxiety like cigarettes and alcohol, living a militaristic lifestyle of work, eat, sleep, work, eat, sleep.

Then they pump out five kids with their war bride and since they left at 16 and came back at 21, married to their Dutch sweetheart, it’s a little late for Daddy to teach by example.

How do they raise their kids? Pretty much by ignoring them. That’s “women’s work” (speaking of “women’s work”, after WW2 there was an ultrachauvenist backlash against the freedom of women out of fear that they would become “too masculine” by doing things like, say, working at respectable jobs). Riding the post-war trend of hypermasculinization/hyperfeminization of the genders, the men just worked, worked, worked, and mostly stayed out of the kids’ lives, while the women took full responsibility for childrearing and housekeeping.

Now you have a generation of kids (the baby boomers) raised by men who never learned how to be fathers. No wonder why things are fucked up.

Morals? Values? Responsibility? Screw it, man! That’s for squares.[/quote]

Gee, that’s great. Honor, courage, dedication, dependability, mental and physical strength…these are the traits that make a good soldier. Is this not what we should pass on to our sons? War is not just about simple slaughter. You make it sound like all anyone learns in war is bloodlust. But why didn’t we see this phenomenon after the Civil War where twice as many American men died as in WWII? Or after WWI or the Revolutionary War? I whole-heartedly reject this theory. Mankind has been at war since cavemen figured out that you could hit someone over the head with a rock and take his food. If this theory is true, it should have happened a looooonnng time ago.

77

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Screw this - I say let’s bring up the GIRLS to be MORE MANLY.

Or at least get them lifting weights.

Compulsory weightlifting in all schools for all sexes.

Let their improved strength and confidence take care of the rest.

[/quote]

Hell, yes! I want my daughter to be tough. I will teach her how to fight so none of the little dirtbag boys will mess with her. When she fights with her older brother, I ususlly let it go unless someone is getting hurt (she wins sometimes). Raising a prissy little girl is not doing her any favors. Eventually, she will encounter a situation where she will need to defend herself. I say get rid of all school computer labs and build weight rooms. We dont’ need more fat, lazy computer geeks.

78

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
When public worship of God is forbidden because we don’t want to offend the satanists or athiests, that is political.

Well, there is that pesky First Amendment that gets in the way of anyone pushing their religious beliefs.

Oh, and it’s not as black and white as you make it sound. I am neither an atheist nor a satanist. I just can’t stand organized religion. I have my own beliefs and keep them to myself. You have yours, keep them to yourself. It’s simple really.

And last time I checked, there is no law that prohibits you from worshipping any way you like in private. Why must it be public? So you can show everyone how holy you are? Please.[/quote]

Why doesn’t public freedom of expression (First Amendment right) apply to religion? You tell me. The First Amendment doesn’t say I can’t “push” my religious beliefs, it simply prevents the federal establishment of an official religion. Meaning, there can be no government sponsored “Church of America” as was the case in England and the rest of Europe. Why is it OK to put a Pittsburgh Steelers flag in my yard, but a 10 Commandments display would have people calling the cops? Why are liberals always so selective on what constitutes freedom of expression? I can openly and loudly support abortion but I can’t say Jesus Christ in public. It’s really hard to figure out what the problem is, isn’t it?

79

[quote]Ren wrote:
Man that article disgusted me.

Back in South Africa I went to a boys only boarding school for 2.5 years before I moved to the States. I know EVERY teacher there, including the women, would laugh at the suggestions these feminist make about raising boys. Hell, I had a female teacher tell 2 of my classmates that if they wanted to fight, could they please wait till after school to go off school grounds to beat the crap out of each other, I wonder what those man-haters would say about that? (for the record, they did fight after school, and it was awesome).

I have always felt strongly about these issues, and I feel it has alot to do with my background. Coming from South Africa, we still had corporal punishment in schools (I am sure most of the older posters know all about this). Nothing beats getting into some serious trouble, and then getting a few licks from the cane before lights out and its over with.

My primary school (grades 1-7) was a co-ed school. At lunchtime we were allowed to play rugby, soccer, cricket, wrestle, whatever unless it got out of hand. I was a prefect at school in 7th grade (10 points if you went to a school that had those), and the only time I borke up kids playing was if it looked like somebody could get seriously hurt (break something basically, like the 3rd graders that once tried to stage dive of the top of the monkey bars, yeah, not good). Otherwise I let them screw around, and take them to the nurse when they scrape themselves and start freaking out cos of blood.

And what the hell is it with taking competitiveness out of school? Its not like the Japanes, Chinese, and Indians and pumping out grads with a technical degree by the truckload, but those societies LIVE on competiveness in schools. Its the only way they can get into college is by being the best, top of your class, it instill in them a drive to succeed. If you take away being competitiveness, you strip away the reasons to succeed. How can you motivate yourself if you have no competition, nobody that is better than you that you are determined to get one up on?

Seriously, someone needs to tell those bitches what the fuck is up, before they take the education system down another few notches.[/quote]

My 11 year old son was in a fight a couple a weeks ago. The mom of the other child called the school (did not happen at school) and call his gymnastic coach. When no one would help her, she called the police. Her son weighs about 40 lbs more than my child. No one was hurt. Two boys don’t get along and she wants my son thrown off the gymnastic team and suspended from school. She definitely has issues.

80

[quote]GaMeOvEr305 wrote:

Article shows how American boys are being molded to be less manly, and more asexual. Home schooling becomes a more viable idea everyday.

Thoughts?[/quote]

Interesting article. Although I realize that the intent of the article was to hightlight the educational systems impact on the masculinity of boys I can’t help but to wonder. If the fathers of these young boys spent more time molding these boys into a proper image of manhood would our educational system and society in general have this much influence?

It seems to me that parents are no longer raising children in the sense that they focus on instilling values and principles in them. From what I see people in general focus on providing for their childrens material needs and keeping them entertained rather than raising them in the true sense of the word.

We all want to be successful in a material sense but it appears that our capitalistic culture has caused people in this country to sacrafice their childrens future in order to maintain their lifestyle. What we ultimately fail to realize is that our financial success is not as important to our children as our time and attention.

Most parents I know indulge their children out of guilt because they do not spend enought time with them or give them their full attention. Wake up America! It means more to junior that you spend a half an hour a day throwing a ball with him in the back yard than it does to buy him an XBox to pacify him and create free time for yourself.

Then we read an article like this where some scholar tries to figure out what is wrong with our children and society in general. Why are our little boys growing up to be illiterate or bullies or worse yet little faggots. It’s not the schools, it’s not society, it’s not the feminazis. It’s our failure as fathers. Because we are not taking advantage of our opportunity to mold our boys into the men they will become. We are deferring that responsibilty to our schools and society in general.