I have a couple of cardiologists who refer patients.
I do not remember the context, but by that I mean a 10% increase in the dose does not result in a 10% increase in serum levels. So, dosing is not linear.
Am I reading those studies correctly? It seems the dosages are from Testosterone gel, meaning it’s not even close to 100 and 50mg/day, probably more like 20 and 10mg/day of Test C equivalent.
The results of the first study seem to confim that, since the 50mg/day dose kept the participants within the normal range for 19-41yo men. No way 50mg/day of any ester injected would keep anyone within the normal range, especially on daily injections. On 18mg/day I was around 1500ng/dL TT or more, on 50mg/day I’d probably be close to 4-5000ng/dL.
However the 500mg/week study I’m pretty sure is based on injected Test, so unless I’m misreading this they’re comparing injectable Test and Test gel dosages.
In a way this is much worse than I thought because it means just 100mg/day of the gel, which is much less than typically prescribed, led to an increase in cardiac events
Sorry, misunderstood.
I agree with your observations…
Given the different modes of T administration from the various trials it would be better to transform x-axis to better capture estimated Tabsorbed or even mean TT/fT (ng/dl). The very high dose points are TU oral I believe. The whole plot is a mess. For example see ref 34:
https://www.goldjournal.net/article/S0090-4295(03)01301-3/fulltext
Look at group 1 vs 3:
So much for the gains on 1 g/week of T 
People will look at the plot and think these guys are running close to 10k ng/dl on 1g/week of injectable test. Nope.
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Haha exactly. Looking at the Free T levels of that group, that would be around 15mg/day of Test C for me, so around 10% of the oral TU dose.
One thing I find interesting is that even though the Free T levels of that group went from 4.4 to 22.5, their Total T only went up from 9.89 to 11.28, which is nothing. How do you explain that? It makes no sense to me.
Also, after 3 months of a dose high enough to bump their Free T from the bottom to the top of the range, their LH only dropped 50% from 8.8 to 4.3, still way above 0.
It’s me. Sorry for no new posts. My wife has early stage dementia and my focus is shifting to getting her to doctors and attempting to keep my sanity.
Went back to 100 mg IM E5D about three weeks ago? The anxiety/irritability/depression all decreased. Still on the fence regarding an AI. Trying my injection at 6 p.m. instead of morning. Last night had many sex dreams and erections three times. Regarding my sleep, I’d been taking thyroid; 80 mcg of T4 and it improved my sleep, somewhat… Then I added 80 mcg of T3. So far(4 days) sleeping a solid 7 hours, waking up warm and in a good mood. None of this is original. Based on the research and clinical experiences of psychiatrists, Dr. Peter Whybrow, Dr. Michael Bauer and Dr. Tammas Kelly, in working with patients with bipolar illness and the late Dr. John Lowe, a chiropractor whose life long depression was resolved when he was prescribed Cytomel(T3), who then went on to treat patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Fibromyalgia with high dose T3, finding those patients had cellular thyroid resistance to the standard recommended dosage.
Thanks for the update. I just wish i had the physiological response to sexual interaction. I feel like i’m faking it. Its horrible. And pde5s barely work anymore.
No way to live. At all. At 44, i’m about to just decide i cannot do relationships because of my secret. You can’t fake sex. You can’t fake affection. I don’t want to have to live, relying on the timing of a freaking pill to HOPE to be able to have sex. Hate this.
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Remember what swoops a while back in that there is a lag effect. I think you may have took too much and felt good initially until it fizzled out. Incase that’s what you mean I am not sure.
So sorry. You certainly don’t have any problem attracting women.
I know you’re not asking me for suggestions but I’m thinking a neuroendocrinologist. There’s something that the doctors aren’t seeing. IIRC, you’re in NYC or near there? If so, you’ve got some of the top docs in the country at your fingertips. The other possibility, which you’ve touched on, was super high dosing, which would correlate with celluar resistance.
Throwing in the towel on relationships and sex won’t make you feel better. My opinion; don’t give up. There’s no payoff. I believe there’s an answer.
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As a teenager until about 25, i was fine. I’d have no issues. Then something just happened. Problems started. I’m now 44 and have tried TRT, different meds, etc. Nothing has worked.
I appreciate the vote of confidence though.
Did you get fat after 25? I did and I wonder if it contributed to my issues. I was ridiculously lean as a teenager into my early 20s. 5’10 and around 135-140 pounds. Got up to 200 pounds pretty quickly after getting married. So I wonder if I started over aromatizing.
I’ve been bodybuilding non stop since 14, so always been in shape. There is really no rhyme or reason as to why i am this way.
My dad is on TRT and i suspect he’s had this issue too, so it’s likely hereditary.
Getting married decreases testosterone in men when compared to unmarried men. Having kids drops testosterone further.
Update. Been doing 100 mg IM E5D. Physical strength improved. Still have been getting my 10 p.m. erection. Decided to try 200 mg as an experiment. Also took 1 mg anastrozole 24 hours later. Mood crashed big time. Deeply depressed. Libido/daily erection faded, too. HPA suppression/reduced thyroid function? Likely, E2 spike, in part, responsible, too, but overdid the AI.
Back to the ‘less is more’ view. Rereading Dr. Shippen’s book ‘The Testosterone Syndrome’. Though he concedes that he couldn’t figure why some of his patients didn;t respond to testosterone, he stated that controlling E2, for some men, was a critical factor in restoration of sexual function. Even, several years ago, doing daily 15 mg, IM, when my TT was 775, FT 192 and E2 was 29, zero erectile function. I might be one of those men who needs a much lower E2, not more or higher T… So, two ways to approach that. Lower the dose of T; EOD or even dailies of 10 mg and if that doesn’t work, add .25 mg of anastrozole.
Yes, at 100 mg E5D, I’ve experienced improvements, but far from where I want to be and, again, for me, higher dosing makes things worse. The guy on excelmale who slowly reduced to 52 mg per week finally found consistency in sexual function, mood and energy. Maybe I’m closer than I realize if I just gradually reduce my dose every week or two and not use an AI, unless I still don’t experience significant improvements.
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I wish you had tried the lower dose for a longer period. I feel like you gave up on it too quickly.
There is (correct me if i’m wrong) a difference between libido and arousal.
Libido is the turning of the head when seeing an attractive woman.
Arousal is the response to sexual stimuli. (erection, blue balls, etc).
I’m always seeing hot women i’d like to be with. Its just when i am with them, the physiological response is super weak.
I always have this instinct to get lost before I realize I might be wrong. Like you and other men on here who aren’t finding success with their protocol, I keep reviewing what I’ve tried as I seek an elusive clue. I was on 15 mg ED for several months. On paper, the labs were excellent…unless, as I wrote, I’m one of those men for whom a lower E2 is the key. 775 at trough would put me close to 1000 at peak. And FT was good. E2 at 29 pg LOOKS good. I felt emotionally and sexually dead.
At 100 mg, IM, E5D,I have libido and the arousal only comes once every 24 hours. Physically, feel good on that dose. Up to 90 push ups daily. Not bad for 72. As for sex, don’t know if my wife was awake at that hour(10 p.m.) if I’d function. A lot of dysfunction between us regarding sex. Nothing for way over a decade. There’s definitely a psychological component to my erectile problems, related to marital problems.
My doctor is puzzled by my once daily erection, too. It’s like the elusive ‘sweet spot’ is hit at that point and then disappears. I used to talk with a guy on the Yahoo Hypogonadism2 forum who only got erections during sleep. I have liquid anastrozole from Blue Sky Peptide. Start with .1 mg weekly or every 10 days. The wheel is always in play, LOL.
Yup I was good on 150mg once a week with around 0.25 mg arimidex, tried to push the envelope a bit with even higher dosing and notice didn’t feel as good.
I know it sounds like I’m throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks but I’m constantly analyzing and revising as I try to determine what’s not working. I’ve been down the road of higher dosing, before; up to 250 mg/weekly. Felt worse. Never felt or functioned better on 200/weekly, except for 30 mg, daily. I was always seriously horny and it’s only time on T that my wife and I were more romantic, but erectile function was sporadic, unreliable and I gained 15 pounds. After 3 months, I’d had enough of being bloated, trouble breathing and pants not fitting. Anastrozole would have been appropriate but I was believing that E2 shouldn’t be controlled. This was all me, not my urologist. And I still keep circling back to E2 being the reason I’m not reaping the sexual benefits.
Which ai did you use and dosage? Thanks.
What are your prolactin levels like?
For me that marker is much more troublesome than E2 by itself.