When i took 5htp, which is supposed to boost serotonin, i Lost all libido and erection. I can never ever listen to the fools talking about how awesome e2 is because in My experience its the complete opposite.
SSRIs do the opposite. Delayed Eja.
EDIT: i think i see what you’re saying here… yes.
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Histamine plays a role in libido. That’s why taking things to block it affects things.
I think the thing is, is that those other guys that want higher libido, get it with higher test. So things mayyyy counter balance.
If this should be a new thread, I would understand if the moderator moves it.
Pertaining to testosterone dosing, has anyone found that high dosing alleviates depression? Yes, I have untreatable bipolar and the primary symptoms, now, are depression and anhedonia. The latter could be linked to depression, but not necessarily. And anhedonia can be linked to learned helplessness.
Just began thinking about this since I’m unable to take medications. I know I posted that Wellbutrin makes my hyper. Caber did the same. DHEA, too. Odd, but anything that boosts dopamine produces negative effects. So, I circled back to testosterone. Yes, the emotional circumstances of my life(marriage, my illness, my wife’s dementia) are all major sources of psychological stress. I’m on the fence as to whether testosterone is a panacea or cure all, yet I wonder, if it’s dosed high, can it break the depression circuit or reboot the neuroendocrine system? Thanks for any and all replies.
Read a study not too Long Ago where high dose testosterone was extremely effective at curing depression, much more so than SSRI.
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And there is much more loot in it for big pharma in prescribing SSRIs, etc, as opposed to Testosterone.
I’ll research that. I apologize to everyone who has responded to me. You’re all great with your support and input from your experiences. Since going from 100 mg E5D(five weeks) to 50 mg E5D(two weeks) I’m experiencing much more anxiety, irritability, yet, lethargy, too.
Currently using T4(80 mcg) at night which helps me sleep, along with low dose of clonazepam. Now added T3(50 mcg/rx) in the morning for depression.
Definitely. Even the generic antidepressants rake in a lot of money. We know that doctors prescribe them like candy, both to men and women. Sometimes there is a legitimate need for them but it’s easier to prescribe them and send the patient on their way. Mediocre doctors=mediocre medicine.
JAMA Psychiatry
JAMA Psychiatry. 2019 Jan; 76(1): 31–40.
Published online 2018 Nov 14. doi: 10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2018.2734
PMCID: PMC6583468
PMID: 30427999
Association of Testosterone Treatment With Alleviation of Depressive Symptoms in Men
A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis
[Andreas Walther, PhD,![corresponding author] [Jonas Breidenstein] BSc,and [Robert Miller] PhD,
A weighty abstract, heavy on statistical data, but as I scanned through it, the dose that brought about the most significant reduction in depression was 500 mg/weekly. Even the most progressive doctor likely wouldn’t prescribe that dose. And it would be pricey for the patient. Four vials a month of Test E is about $245. Expensive for many of us. Nevertheless, quite interesting.
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Ive done 1.2 g of test a week plenty Times. As Long as e2 is in range its fucking impossible go feel depressed on that lol
Wow! I’m presuming UGL. Don’t want to alienate my urologist. He’s a top doc and a good guy. I know BBs use gram doses of T. Damn though, it’s tempting.
Yea im not recommending anything, just reporting My experience. Also u feel invinsible, like a Walking god and im not exaggerating.
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Thanks for sharing. I wonder if the depression will return for some patients if they have to deal with cardiac issues later on?
Irrespective of any bias, analysis of potential moderators revealed that dose was a likely moderator, indicating robust effects for dosages higher than 500 mg/wk (Figure 3B). Previous studies failed to detect testosterone dose-response relationships for mood, including for depressive symptoms.30,85 Our results suggest for the first time, to our knowledge, that better treatment response may require higher dosages, although this finding requires independent replication. However, a previous RCT using a higher-dosage testosterone regimen with an initial dosage of 100 mg/d in men 65 years and older reported increased risk for cardiovascular adverse events.86 In the testosterone trials, on the other hand, an initial dosage of 50 mg/d was used, and no increased risk for cardiovascular adverse events was identified.42 The authors of the testosterone trials further concluded that a trial of a much larger number of men for a much longer period would be necessary to determine whether testosterone increases the risk for cardiovascular events.87 Lower symptom variability at baseline also emerged as a potential effect predictor, demonstrating a better inferential performance of RCTs that sampled from symptomatically homogeneous source populations. Treatment duration was not significantly associated with the testosterone treatment–related reduction in depressive symptoms. Consistently, the time course of testosterone treatment effects shows considerable variation, with studies reporting beneficial effects on depressive symptoms after 6 weeks39 up to 36 months.58 This variation suggests that treatment effects may begin within 6 weeks of initiating testosterone treatment. In line with this reasoning, it has been suggested that testosterone treatment–related effects on depressive symptoms could become detectable after 3 to 6 weeks, and maximum effects emerge after 18 to 30 weeks.88
Ref 86…
In conclusion, we evaluated the effect of testosterone supplementation in men 65 years of age or older who had limitations in mobility and low serum levels of total or free testosterone. The trial was stopped before enrollment had been completed because of an incidence of adverse cardiovascular events that was higher in the testosterone group than in the placebo group. However, caution is warranted in interpreting this finding, because of the small numbers of events and because of limitations with respect to the ascertainment of adverse events. Caution is also warranted in extrapolating these findings to other doses and formulations of testosterone or to other populations, particularly young men who have hypogonadism without cardiovascular disease or limitations in mobility.
If @highpull is following this thread, his thoughts would be welcomed. The supposed heart attack/testosterone connection has been amplified in the media. My urologist told me of one of his patients with heart disease who was told by his cardiologist to stay on testosterone, that it benefits cardiac function.
50 mg per week equals 35 mg of T; 7 mg daily, yet men taking 500 mg/weekly; 350 mg of T, exhibited the most robust response. I believe @highpull stated that dosing is linear. IIRC, there isn’t any curve where benefits peak, then decline. And in the conclusion of the abstract, the authors acknowledge that data isn’t definitive and that larger RCTs are needed.
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Into my second week on 50 mg/weekly, my anxiety, restlessness, irritability and depression increased. I understand that two weeks isn’t a fair trial but just feeling so uncomfortable, in spite of better sleep, that today, went back to 100 mg.
Maybe what I’m experiencing isn’t connected to T dose reduction but it’s the one change I’ve made.
Trend above favors more is better but more variability at 1 g/week (see plot). Obviously you would need to think about risk/reward running 0.6-1 g/week of test ester as long term protocol.
A considerable portion of the heterogeneity attributed to the outlying study34 was a result of its comparably large dose of administered testosterone (1.12 g/wk) and low symptom variability at baseline (coefficient of variation = 10.7%). Accordingly, testosterone treatment with 500 mg/wk at a symptom variability of 20% was estimated to result in a Hedges g of 0.52 (SE = 0.23; 95% CI, 0.08-0.96). By contrast, the outcome of testosterone treatment with 200 mg/wk at a symptom variability of 50% was estimated to amount to a Hedges g of 0.15 SD (SE, 0.18; 95% CI, −0.21 to 0.51). The robustness of this conceptually important dose-response association is shown in Figure 3B, which highlights that, even in the most conservative bias scenario, the depression-alleviating effect of testosterone treatment remained clinically significant when high testosterone dosages (>500 mg/wk) were administered and symptom variability was kept low (by sampling from homogeneous participant populations).
Though it interests me, unless I purchase UGL, it won’t happen. My urologist is okay with 250 mg/week but I haven’t gone there, yet. My rx for Test E is for 1mL weekly. 200 is a good dose, IMO. Right now, hoping that the anxiety and other symptoms, resolve, back at 100 mg.
@roscoe88 has mentioned before sadly I think for some of us to feel the benefits of higher T we simply can only get there with lowering E2 with AI.
A guy on excel posted this, along with a couple of other testimonials. It’s in line with what you and @roscoe88 have expressed.
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