Feedback From Meat

[quote]mathineer wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
i just watched your vids. is it the left elbow that you can’t straighten out? competing or not is an individual decision. you definitely don’t have to compete to enjoy lifting heavy shit.

Yes, the left one. Phil recommended I keep it warm while lifting with a wrap.

i don’t want to overwhelm you with a ton of stuff so i’m going to give you the most glaring issues on the three lifts.

deadlift- you are making the most common mistake that i see with people deadlifting. you are bending over and picking the weight up. to make the deadlift efficient and safe, you need to use the most muscle groups as possible. not just the lower back. think of the deadlift as a pull then a push. the pull comes from pulling the weight into you to start the lift. that will put you back onto your hells and keeps the weight near you. a good way to practice this is to lift your toes and keep them up the entire time.

the push happens when the weight gets to your knees, you then push your hips forward to the bar.

I’d guessed most of this stuff from reading your responses to other folks, and from watching the video. I’ll work on getting my legs into it more at the bottom, and “makin’ sweet luv” to the bar at the top!

on the squats. i would suggest seting the pins at a comfortable level and then squat to them. you are putting a lot of stress on you knees by trying to sit on that little chair. a good squat that is powerful, using good leverage and protects the knees is one that has the lower leg as perpendicular to the floor as possible. watch how your lower legs turn out at an angle when you squat down. the way to fix this is to take a wider stance, point your toes out some, force your knees out and sit back more. i know that this seems like a lot but just pick one thing and work on it. once you think you have it, pick another.

Just to be clear - I wasn’t putting any weight on the chair, only just touching it as a depth indicator. Regarding the pins, do you mean deloading the weight onto the pins at the bottom, or just touching them? Either way, I’ll definitely work on widening the stance. Since I’ll be backing of in weight while the pulled muscle heals, I’ll have some time to really work on form before I get back the the heavier (for me) weight.

on the bench, the lower arms should be perpendicular to the bar. you have much better leverage that way and it will protect the joints. i would take your grip out a little more to get that position. i would also suggest getting your feet back more so you can drive your heels into the ground as you perform the lift. i know you have some knee issues so just get them back as far as you can. leg drive is a big part of benching. leg drive is attained by driving the heels down throughout the entire lift. the best way to achieve this is to get your feet as far under you as you can. this also helps to maintain a good arch and stay tight.

I’ll definitely widen my grip to make my arms perpendicular to the bar (at the bottom, right?). As for getting my legs under me, I can’t keep my feet flat and get them much further back. Should I go ahead and get up on my toes if that gets them back further?

Thanks very much for taking the time to critique my lifts. I’ll work on this stuff for 2-3 weeks and then take new videos.
[/quote]

at this point, i wouldn’t deload on the pins. just come down and tap them. this will be a good guide for you to figure out a good depth for you. later, once you get your form down you can then start deloading on them.

as for the feet, i get my feet back as far as i can and stay up on my toes. i’m still forcing my heels down but because they are so far back, they aren’t moving much. i like this style because it really puts me into a declined position and keeps me very tight.

sounds good bro. keep the videos coming.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
I tried work on what you suggested, but I’m not sure I was doing them right. Here’s from my session today:

Sumo Deadlift - Only to knee
185 x 4
185 x 4
185 x 4 - 185 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube
225 x 4
225 x 4
225 x 4 - 225 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube

I backed off the weight to try to work on what you asked me to. I’m not sure I did a good job in general, but I didn’t really feel like I was pulling the bar into my shins enough. Maybe I was, but I’m just not sure.

the 225 video looked really good.

pulling the weight into your shins is more of a cue to let yourself know that you are pulling back against you instead of just lifting up.

the only thing that i can critique is keep forcing your knees out hard. when i initiate my pull off the floor, i begin by pushing as hard as i can, out, on my knees. then i think about squatting the weight up. the arms are just there to hold the weight.

i tell you what… you guys are really improving quickly.

[/quote]

Thanks again! I’ll keep working on it. It definitely felt a lot different and I felt all kinds of different stuff working. I really didn’t even feel like my back was doing anything at all, which hasn’t been the case for me in the past.

Stupid question, but should I keep doing the sumos to the knee exclusively for a bit or should be alternating them with full sumos or anything like that? I guess is there a point where I get to ‘graduate’ back to full sumos?

Oh, sorry about the nagging PM. I should have given you more time to review the videos. :slight_smile:

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
I tried work on what you suggested, but I’m not sure I was doing them right. Here’s from my session today:

Sumo Deadlift - Only to knee
185 x 4
185 x 4
185 x 4 - 185 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube
225 x 4
225 x 4
225 x 4 - 225 x 4 - Half Deads - YouTube

I backed off the weight to try to work on what you asked me to. I’m not sure I did a good job in general, but I didn’t really feel like I was pulling the bar into my shins enough. Maybe I was, but I’m just not sure.

the 225 video looked really good.

pulling the weight into your shins is more of a cue to let yourself know that you are pulling back against you instead of just lifting up.

the only thing that i can critique is keep forcing your knees out hard. when i initiate my pull off the floor, i begin by pushing as hard as i can, out, on my knees. then i think about squatting the weight up. the arms are just there to hold the weight.

i tell you what… you guys are really improving quickly.

Thanks again! I’ll keep working on it. It definitely felt a lot different and I felt all kinds of different stuff working. I really didn’t even feel like my back was doing anything at all, which hasn’t been the case for me in the past.

Stupid question, but should I keep doing the sumos to the knee exclusively for a bit or should be alternating them with full sumos or anything like that? I guess is there a point where I get to ‘graduate’ back to full sumos?

Oh, sorry about the nagging PM. I should have given you more time to review the videos. :)[/quote]

of course you can go back to the full sumos. i had you doing them to concentrate on the initial pull. you seem to be doing a really good job with that, so by all means.

be sure to get those hips through really fast with the full pulls.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
mom-in-MD wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
mom-in-MD wrote:

yep… that’s my hole in the wall:)

will do… i’ll let you know.

feel free to hit me up when you have a new vid.

[/quote]

Sweet…
And I’ll be back to bug you soon! :stuck_out_tongue:
Thanks again!!

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
mom-in-MD wrote:
Hi MM-

We appreciate that you are here, and are willing to help!

I’ll take a turn if you don’t mind :wink:

I’m not a bodybuilder or a power lfiter, but I take my lifting seriously. I have set a few goals for myself, and one of them is to get a 200lb+ squat by my 30th b-day in August…I had a shitty max attempt a couple weeks ago of 175, haha…I’m really trying to clean up form, and keep things in mind(elbows forward, chest up, etc) Trying to break the bad habit of letting my butt lead me out of the hole…

Here is my squat from this week:

Not perfect, but getting better! Any advice or tips on progression to make my goal happen? Aside from working on better form, that much I know…THANKS!!

form is pretty damn good. a few things to work on.

  • get your neck back into the bar. i can tell there’s a mirror in front of you. NEVER look into the mirror. if you have to, turn around and face the other way. push your neck into the bar and keep it there. i tell people first learning to do this to put a baseball cap on backwards and keep the bill on their traps the entire time.

  • take a deep breath before you squat and then hold it throughout the lift. it appears that you are breathing during the rep. this makes it impossible to stay tight. exhale just as you are locking out.

  • keep working on getting the elbows down and then forced forward as you are coming out of the hole.

definitely one of the better squats i’ve seen.

[/quote]

This is a problem I have too, I’ve hung towels in the cage in front of me to block the mirror.

Meat,

I did deads and bench last night. I had planned to print out your instructions, and read them over just before my lifts, but for some reason I couldn’t access T-Nation web site at all last night.

Anyway, on the Deads I curled my toes back and thought of pushing the floor away from me with my heels. Looking at the video, I’m not sure if it looks any better, but my lower back FELT a lot better after 3 sets of 5 at 250lbs (a PR, BTW), so I think I might be improving. I really tried to get my legs into the lift more. Oh, I also tried to get as close to the bar as possible, with my shins almost touching it.

On the bench, I took a wider grip, and tried to get my feet further back under me, but the knee just won’t bend any further.

A video of my last set of deads, and one of my benches from last night are on my profile (the last two vids) at Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness
I left the other three up for now.

Meat,

I just added another video from today’s squat. I kept the weight light, and worked on form. I think it’s a little better.

Thanks again for the help.

mathineer

[quote]mathineer wrote:
Meat,

I just added another video from today’s squat. I kept the weight light, and worked on form. I think it’s a little better.

Thanks again for the help.

mathineer[/quote]

i just checked them out and you made great progress in a short time.

it’s obvious that you are getting your the weight back on your heels for deads which is really good. you still need to get those hips through as soon as the weight reaches your knees.

bench is looking much better. just keep plugging away on getting tighter.

squat is much better. feet are farther apart and you are obviously pushing your knees out. get rid of that pad on the bar. there’s no way to keep the bar in a proper position with that thing. it allows the bar to wobble around. i know the bar cuts into the upper back but over time you will get used to it.

i would continue to work on getting the elbows farther down and push your neck back into the bar the entire time.

you are definitely making great progress.

[quote]pushmepullme wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
mom-in-MD wrote:
Hi MM-

We appreciate that you are here, and are willing to help!

I’ll take a turn if you don’t mind :wink:

I’m not a bodybuilder or a power lfiter, but I take my lifting seriously. I have set a few goals for myself, and one of them is to get a 200lb+ squat by my 30th b-day in August…I had a shitty max attempt a couple weeks ago of 175, haha…I’m really trying to clean up form, and keep things in mind(elbows forward, chest up, etc) Trying to break the bad habit of letting my butt lead me out of the hole…

Here is my squat from this week:

Not perfect, but getting better! Any advice or tips on progression to make my goal happen? Aside from working on better form, that much I know…THANKS!!

form is pretty damn good. a few things to work on.

  • get your neck back into the bar. i can tell there’s a mirror in front of you. NEVER look into the mirror. if you have to, turn around and face the other way. push your neck into the bar and keep it there. i tell people first learning to do this to put a baseball cap on backwards and keep the bill on their traps the entire time.

  • take a deep breath before you squat and then hold it throughout the lift. it appears that you are breathing during the rep. this makes it impossible to stay tight. exhale just as you are locking out.

  • keep working on getting the elbows down and then forced forward as you are coming out of the hole.

definitely one of the better squats i’ve seen.

This is a problem I have too, I’ve hung towels in the cage in front of me to block the mirror.[/quote]

I’ve done that one too.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

as you crack it off the floor the weight should move faster and faster right into that forceful lockout.

[/quote]

Meat, just a note of thanks. This description really helped me.

I used to think about just moving the bar and completing the rep. Now, since I focus on accelerating the bar it feels like I am tapping into more of my potential strength. Numbers are up.

Hey Meat, you helped out my front squat a lot in the past. Thanks again for that.

This is me benching 205 for 6 reps. I would really appreciate any recommendations, when you get the time. I’ll get another video if the angle is bad.

Thanks you, thank you.

[quote]giterdone wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:

as you crack it off the floor the weight should move faster and faster right into that forceful lockout.

Meat, just a note of thanks. This description really helped me.

I used to think about just moving the bar and completing the rep. Now, since I focus on accelerating the bar it feels like I am tapping into more of my potential strength. Numbers are up.[/quote]

i’m glad i could help. another thing that is useful is to always move the bar fast on all your sets. getting used to this will make it second nature. i see people moving the bar fast on speed work but any other time they move it slow.

Darling Meat!

Squats (max raw is 285):

225:

245:

Bench (max raw is ~170):

155:

155 #4:

Tips etc. appreciated!

Edit: I know I’m a bit high in my squats for USAPL…I need to video more to keep myself honest.

I know this is for PLr’s, but I know you used to do some bbing before. Is there a way to somehow combine PLing and mass building? I know you can gain strength even while training purely for mass, but I was wondering if you had an opinion on this. I’ve seen some natural body builders do strength/hypertrophy programs that seem very effective in hitting great PR’s even while gaining.
I know I should just pick a goal and focus on that, but what are your thoughts on this concept?

[quote]Flow wrote:
Hey Meat, you helped out my front squat a lot in the past. Thanks again for that.

This is me benching 205 for 6 reps. I would really appreciate any recommendations, when you get the time. I’ll get another video if the angle is bad.

Thanks you, thank you.[/quote]

just checked out your vid.

form looks pretty good. you have a good bar path and keep the elbows tucked on the way down. it appears to me that you need to row the weight down more. the bar is coming down pretty fast. rowing it down will build tension in the lats allowing you to control the heavier weight and give you more pop off the chest. think about trying to bend the bar in half as you are lowering it. this will activate the lats.

also, i don’t see a lot of leg drive. try and get those heels under you more and drive them down as soon as you lift the bar off. this will keep you tight throughout the lift. as you press off the chest, really press down HARD on your heels. another thing that will help with leg drive is to do an isometric leg curl as you drive your heels down.

those are the two things that i see. everything else looks pretty good.

[quote]pushmepullme wrote:
Darling Meat!

Squats (max raw is 285):

225:

245:

Bench (max raw is ~170):

155:

155 #4:

Tips etc. appreciated!

Edit: I know I’m a bit high in my squats for USAPL…I need to video more to keep myself honest.[/quote]

first off… that is one awesome bench setup you have there!! great arch, great hand position, and great tuck.

if i had to give you a critque, i would say that you need to row the weight down more by trying to bend the bar in half. this will activate the lats and place resistance on the bar on the way down. i also think that when you activate the lats more, your bar path will be a little lower. i can always tell when someone isn’t activating their lats because the bar comes down high on the chest. your bar path isn’t high but it could be lower.

squats look good but i’m sure you know that your elbows need to get under you and then force them forward on the way up. this takes awhile and won’t happen over night. just be aware of it and keep plugging away. it may help to take your grip in some. a good squat variation to teach you to get those elbows down is to put the bar on the pins at parallel and then setup in the bottom position and squat the weight up. if you aren’t in the right position it ends up being a good morning.

also, your wrist wraps need to be higher to really give you support on the bench. i wrap up over the first knuckle of my thumb. the top of the wrap is basically even with the crease where my thumb begins.

[quote]trav123456 wrote:
I know this is for PLr’s, but I know you used to do some bbing before. Is there a way to somehow combine PLing and mass building? I know you can gain strength even while training purely for mass, but I was wondering if you had an opinion on this. I’ve seen some natural body builders do strength/hypertrophy programs that seem very effective in hitting great PR’s even while gaining.
I know I should just pick a goal and focus on that, but what are your thoughts on this concept?[/quote]

you can definitely combine the two. most of my training has been a combo of the two.

obviously a big muscle can be stronger but building mass itself is done through using higher reps. i use a modified westside templete. my first two variations are max effort where i train with a low rep range to get stronger. then i do accessory work to build mass in the muscle groups that aid my bench, squat and deadlift. i train this stuff in a higher rep range and often do circuits, drop sets, giant sets, etc.

some say that just making a muscle bigger will also make it stronger. this is NOT true. a muscle grows through using higher reps that cause damage to the muscle fibers. strength is more a case of neurological adaptation. for this to happen though you need to have enough mass to handle the increasing poundages.

i think that a well rounded program should be one that focuses on both. big ain’t shit unless you are strong too. and both are achieved in different ways.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
trav123456 wrote:
I know this is for PLr’s, but I know you used to do some bbing before. Is there a way to somehow combine PLing and mass building? I know you can gain strength even while training purely for mass, but I was wondering if you had an opinion on this. I’ve seen some natural body builders do strength/hypertrophy programs that seem very effective in hitting great PR’s even while gaining.
I know I should just pick a goal and focus on that, but what are your thoughts on this concept?

you can definitely combine the two. most of my training has been a combo of the two.

obviously a big muscle can be stronger but building mass itself is done through using higher reps. i use a modified westside templete. my first two variations are max effort where i train with a low rep range to get stronger. then i do accessory work to build mass in the muscle groups that aid my bench, squat and deadlift. i train this stuff in a higher rep range and often do circuits, drop sets, giant sets, etc.

some say that just making a muscle bigger will also make it stronger. this is NOT true. a muscle grows through using higher reps that cause damage to the muscle fibers. strength is more a case of neurological adaptation. for this to happen though you need to have enough mass to handle the increasing poundages.

i think that a well rounded program should be one that focuses on both. big ain’t shit unless you are strong too. and both are achieved in different ways.

[/quote]

If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, could you give an outline of this? Do you max out on both variations every week, or is one a max and one a triple or something? Sorry if I’m testing your patience but I want to get into something that is more effective than the random effort that I’ve done in the past, I’d definitely take your reccomendations seriously, I’ll probably run with them as you are the most accomplished person I’ve been in contact with. Thanks.

[quote]trav123456 wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
trav123456 wrote:
I know this is for PLr’s, but I know you used to do some bbing before. Is there a way to somehow combine PLing and mass building? I know you can gain strength even while training purely for mass, but I was wondering if you had an opinion on this. I’ve seen some natural body builders do strength/hypertrophy programs that seem very effective in hitting great PR’s even while gaining.
I know I should just pick a goal and focus on that, but what are your thoughts on this concept?

you can definitely combine the two. most of my training has been a combo of the two.

obviously a big muscle can be stronger but building mass itself is done through using higher reps. i use a modified westside templete. my first two variations are max effort where i train with a low rep range to get stronger. then i do accessory work to build mass in the muscle groups that aid my bench, squat and deadlift. i train this stuff in a higher rep range and often do circuits, drop sets, giant sets, etc.

some say that just making a muscle bigger will also make it stronger. this is NOT true. a muscle grows through using higher reps that cause damage to the muscle fibers. strength is more a case of neurological adaptation. for this to happen though you need to have enough mass to handle the increasing poundages.

i think that a well rounded program should be one that focuses on both. big ain’t shit unless you are strong too. and both are achieved in different ways.

If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, could you give an outline of this? Do you max out on both variations every week, or is one a max and one a triple or something? Sorry if I’m testing your patience but I want to get into something that is more effective than the random effort that I’ve done in the past, I’d definitely take your reccomendations seriously, I’ll probably run with them as you are the most accomplished person I’ve been in contact with. Thanks.[/quote]

no problem. my basic program is as follows-

bench day-

2 Max Effort bench variations- i pyramid up for warmup sets. then i typically do 3x3 for my working sets. I do NOT max out on Max Effort work. i always try to leave a rep in the tank. the reason for this is that maxing out (going to faliure) is very fatiguing to the CNS. doing this on a regular basis doens’t allow you to recover. you will eventually start to get weaker and may lead to injury. i usually train in the 90% range for that particular variation. I pick Max Effort variations based on my sticking points in those particular movements (squat, bench, or deadlift). i stick to the same two variations for four week cycles and then i typically test my max. i then switch everything up.

after ME stuff i do accessory work. on bench day i follow it up with tricep work. i typically do one or two tricep movements for 3 set of 10 or more reps. i will go to failure on this stuff because light to moderate weight for high reps isn’t nearly as exhausting on the CNS.

Squat day-

i do pick one ME squat variation and then do one to two accessory movements for higher reps for 3 to 5 sets. i then sometimes do a quad dominant movement such as lunges or hack squats for 2 to 3 reps for high reps to failure.

deadlift day-

i do two ME variations. sometimes i rotate the second ME variation out for speed work. (that’s what i’m doing now). then i do accessory work for upper back, shoulders and biceps. reps are typically 10 and above and sets are 3 or more.

i train calves and abs every other training session.

i also rotate in speed work on squats and bench when i feel like i’m slowing down.

it’s pretty simple but very effective.

if you have questions, feel free.

Thanks Meat! I’m going to start a log on this site on monday, I’ll post any questions I have.