Arlovski was numer two at the time, Timmy was number five I think. Mir wasn’t even top ten until beating Nog, Randy oh he’s old so he gets a pass unlike Arlovski. Whether you care to admit it you are clearly biased towards the UFC. Rogers KO’d the number two Heavyweight and what it’s an accident, Rogers should be punished for Arlovski having a glass chin?
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
So five fighters in the top ten not in the UFC and Cain, Carwin are unproven, Randy is old as fuck, Mir who beat a sick battered Nog who was close to losing to Herring. So your argument is what yhe only exciting matchup in the UFC is Carwin or Lesnar. Cain has potential but hes not that good yet and his next fight will show that
Hmm…I’m actually seeing your angle on this. Those HW rankings are very subjective…fighters are different on different nights…fighter’s get better…fighter’s don’t improve at all,but have good nights…etc,etc. Too many subjective points. The only thing in these rankings that is pretty much uncontested are the top 3. Below that is open…mostly opinion and made up analysis…and favoritism. Anyone can be beat. Those rankings should be called “who’s hot…who’s not.” No bearing on talent whatsoever.
To suggest that Fedor will fight just as talented fighters outside the UFC is just plain silly. Rankings aside, just think about the fighters and their skills. I can think of at least 4 fighters that would be more competitive with Fedor than Overeem. Over half a dozen would fair better than Rogers. Werdum, who knows. He’s not exactly consistent.
To suggest that Rogers = Carwin just because their records are similar is silly.
To suggest that Couture would not be competitive of fair better than anyone in Strikeforce because of his age is silly.
To suggest that Mir wouldn’t fair better than anyone in Strikeforce because Nog was sick is silly.
Is all of this subjective, sure. But if you actually consider skills, athletic prowess, and camp, along side record and competition it seems pretty easy to determine which fights would be most interesting. He has a three fight deal. Pick the top three fights you would like to see Fedor in. None are in Strikeforce for me.
We still get to see interesting fights in the HW division. I personally plan to switch from HBO to showtime now. If Fedor wants to fight in the UFC in 2011, he can. None of this is going to ruin MMA by a long stretch, but someone suggesting the UFC doesn’t have much more interesting fights with better fighters is ridiculous to me.
If one is interested in rankings, I don’t see how someone can remain in #1 position by fighting fighters barely in the top 10.[/quote]
Well I think there are other ways to look at this.
Carwin and Valasquez are going to fight each other. So he one of them. They have a high profile because they fight for the UFC but they are still more like prospects.
Nog and Couture fight each other. IF Nog wins, well I don’t see any sense in Fedor fighting Nog Again.
As for Carwin/Rogers comparison it is superficial but they are unbeaten and their last opponents were highly ranked(Gonzaga…and Arlovski). The casual fans won’t really see anything beyond that.
Fedor gets on Showtime and he could wind up on network tv, CBS. If Fedor winds up on network tv then his profile is going to skyrocket. It would ironic for Fedor to finally go mainstream by not choosing to be with the UFC. Considering the big deal made of KImbo Slice on EliteXC, that seems like a good situation for Fedor. Strikeforce/M-1/CBS can rpomote Fedor as being the best HW and have casual fans think so. If Fedor remains undefeated when his contract runs out then I think he would have even more leverage than he does now. He makes alot of money and does it all on his terms while having the public perceive him as being the top HW. At that point what does the UFC do? This is of course the best case3 scenario.
[quote]drewh wrote:
Arlovski was numer two at the time, Timmy was number five I think. Mir wasn’t even top ten until beating Nog, Randy oh he’s old so he gets a pass unlike Arlovski. Whether you care to admit it you are clearly biased towards the UFC. Rogers KO’d the number two Heavyweight and what it’s an accident, Rogers should be punished for Arlovski having a glass chin?[/quote]
What was an accident was those guys being ranked there. How on earth did Arlovski get to be number 2? Just because he was scheduled to fight Fedor? Timmy has looked absolutly horrendous in his last 4 fights (can’t remember how he looked against Couture). I know it’s tough to look past records and rankings, but sometimes you have to watch a fight or two.
Rogers is not being punished for Arlovski having a glass chin. He is B level fighter at best, regardless of what happened with Arlovski. How long has he been training full time? What camp is he at? How many other top ten fighters do they train? Can you even name another guy that trains with at Team Bison?
Outside of Werdum, the guys being talked about for Fedor fights are training at b level MMA camps and don’t appear to be rolling with top tier guys. How does this prepare them for Fedor?
Would you train at Team Bison or Golden Glory (great stikers) if you were fighting Fedor? I’ll take the guys that have been rolling with the best submission guys on the planet, but that’s just me. I may have just convinced myself that Werdum has the best shot at Fedor in his next three fights.
If I were Overeem or Rogers, I would switch camps or bring in some world class submission grapplers now and hope I get the last of the three fights.
The top tier guys in the UFC are extrodinary athletes that train at the best camps in world with the best training partners in the world. I’ll exclude Lesnar from this statement. Good trainers, but have no clue who he brings in for training partners.
You can say what you want about Couture, he’s looked good in last few fights. Christ, when has the guy had a bad fight? I guess if you are looking at just Ws and Ls on a website, this can be hard to discern.
[quote]otoko wrote:
Well I think there are other ways to look at this.
Carwin and Valasquez are going to fight each other. So he one of them. They have a high profile because they fight for the UFC but they are still more like prospects.
[/quote]
Agreed, they are prospects. When I judge my interest in a fight, I don’t look only at records or past opponents. I look at the phyical tools, consistancy, how they looked in fights I have seen, and who they train with. This, to me, puts both of these guys ahead of Rogers and right up there with Overeem and Werdum in fights I would want to see with Fedor. If in the UFC, he gets an immediate title shot. He wins, they line up the best guys to fight him.
I agree. I have no interest in that fight. I don’t see how Nog beats Couture, but that’s just me.
Yep. As much as my wife would like me to be, I am not a casual fan so the suggestion that these two pose similar threats is insane to me.
[/quote]
Fedor gets on Showtime and he could wind up on network tv, CBS. If Fedor winds up on network tv then his profile is going to skyrocket. It would ironic for Fedor to finally go mainstream by not choosing to be with the UFC. Considering the big deal made of KImbo Slice on EliteXC, that seems like a good situation for Fedor. Strikeforce/M-1/CBS can rpomote Fedor as being the best HW and have casual fans think so. If Fedor remains undefeated when his contract runs out then I think he would have even more leverage than he does now. He makes alot of money and does it all on his terms while having the public perceive him as being the top HW.
[/quote]
yep. it is great move by him and M1. Like I said before, I am not that dissappointed that Fedor went to SF. It only a year and we get to see him fight at least 4 times (3 for SF + New Years Eve). After that he can go to the UFC if he wishes to. By then many of the prospects will be bonified badasses, or out of the picture. My only problem is with the assersion that SF = UFC for competition.
Hope he doesn’t retire and that he doesn’t resign with M1. I think this in unlikely, but a guy can dream.
The other possibility is that Couture leaves the UFC after his contract is up to fight Fedor. This, to me, ends up being a better fight than any they are talking about now. Still not champion vs. #1 ranked, but I’ll take it. My guess is that the UFC will stretch out his fights as much as possible to avoid this or make it less relavent. I forget how many he has left.
Shut up I watched the fights. Who gives two shits what camp a fighter trains at how do you think a camp gains popularity by unkown fighters doing well. I’m positive both Overeem and Rogers know more about fighting then you youre a fan who thinks by listening to and reading reports it makes you some expert on fighting.
The best camps really think here Shane Carwin due to a full time job as an engineer trains at T’s KO in Colorado and sure Marquardt’s there and occasionally some guys from Jacksons’s. Lesnar from Nelsons camp the only other fighter is Sherk. When has Red Devil ever had successful fighters other than Fedor. ALeks and Kiril have been busts. Camps do not matter as much as you think the fighters make the camps anyway at one point people thought Miletitch had the best camp then his fighters started losing or left and now what they suck or do people like you just think they do.
If theire fighters start winning again Im sure youll e the first to start ridind their bandwagon. When has Couture looked bad oh getting knocked the hell out by Chuck twice getting pounded by Brock Couture is purely a matchup fighter if he cannot control the fight he loses. You probably don’t watch any events outside of the UFC, you’re a clown if you think the number two fighters and below wouldn’t have huge problems with the best outside of the UFC (excluding light heavy.)
I guarantee Milendez or Thomson would beat FLorians ass. Shields against FItch or Alves, Diaz against them. Lawler Filho against Henderson or Marquardt. Open your eyes there is more to MMA then the UFC.
[quote]drewh wrote:
Shut up I watched the fights. Who gives two shits what camp a fighter trains at how do you think a camp gains popularity by unkown fighters doing well.
[/quote]
by having the best trainers and training partners?
not an expert, just an observer.
wrong
Didn’t I already conceed this? Lesnar is a freak. He can get away with it.
he’s fedor. I would put him in the same catagor as Lesnar. Freak athletes. I doubt either will get away relying on that as much as they do for much longer.
Aleks is a bust? How about Mousasi?
You need very good trainers and very good training partners. Is this that controversial.
I am not on anyones bandwagon. I just don’t think Rogers is qualified or as talented as probably 10 other guys to face fedor. Overeem, at least 5.
Thanks for the conformation you are an idiot. I think I will end the conversation after this post.
Aren’t we talking about HWs? Are you suggesting the overall talent pool for HW is comparable to other weight classes? More conformation. Thanks.
Irrelavent and wrong. Would they woop BJs ass?
destruction. even worse against GSP.
You’ve got to be kidding me with Lawler. Yet more conformation. Filho might be interesting but there was a reason he was in the WEC. did you watch the 2nd Sonnen fight? They would be mid tier in the UFC.
Certainly. I watch every almost event that is televised. Live or DVR it. I have most of the Pride (non-bushido)cards on DVD. Both affliction cards and all the dream cards where on my DVR waiting to be burned until is crashed. I even attend some local shows at the St Paul Armory when I can get someone to go with me. I like watching guys of same caliber fight, regardless of what caliber they are. Two guys of different caliber is not as interesting.
Fedor fighting in strikeforce is like GSP vs. Serra. Sure anything can happen, but to argue that they are same caliber fighter is silly. In this comparrision the UFC might be Alves or Fitch, but that’s still closer than Serra. I will pay to watch Fedor fight in Stikeforce, just like I paid (i think is was PPV) to watch GSP fight Serra.
Again, if you think Strikeforce has the same caliber of HWs for the #1 HW to fight, you’re an idiot. Have a nice life.
You’re a douche. It’s a forum no need to act like a woman on here period, no need to get all uppity over a difference in opinion and call me stupid.