Fedor / UFC -- FINALLY?

[dhickey]

[quote]slimjim wrote:

I’ve told you repeatedly that I hate when people respond in this manner. Simply ridiculous.
[/quote]
what, addressing specific points? I know it can be inconvenient.

How has Fedor not tried to fight the best? His last two fights were against recognized top ten competition and former UFC champions.

Who turned out not to be top 10 after all, but that is a seperate arguement. He is soon running out of “top 10” apponents. If he wants to (not saying he does) at the top of the rankings, he has to fight the best. They are now in the UFC.

The fight that just fell through was against Josh Barnett, again one of the top HW’s in the world. Just because North Americans only see UFC fights, does not mean that the UFC belt, or simply UFC competition, is the highest level in the world.

the fact is there are very few interesting fights at HW outside the UFC now. With out UFC releases, there would be even fewer. To suggest the best talent is not in the UFC is silly.

Furthermore, why does Fedor have to sign his life away to compete? Why does he have to give up likeness rights, a non-exclusive contract, and the ability to participate in the promotion (he is part owner of M-1 apparently) ?

he doesn’t have to do anything. The part I contested is that Fedor is some crusader, fighting the evil an oppressive UFC. The same UFC that has made more millionairs in MMA then all other promotions combined.

If he wants to avoid the lockdown such a contract would place upon him, why is that a piece of shit argument? Further, the fact is he is still under contract to M-1 for three more fights. The UFC refuses to co-promote. Fine. But don’t expect M-1 to give up their largest poker chip.

what about the evil M1 that won’t allow the nobel Fedor continue his selfless quest to defeat the best in the division purely for the love of the sport?

As for the lockdown, whatever. Again, people point out a dozen ways the evil UFC is trying to enslave fighters but when it comes down to it, it is about money for the ruskies as well. It’s about M1 wanting to copromote. They have Fedor under contract and should do what is in their best interest, but let’s atleast be honest about what is going on here.

I don’t have a problem with Fedor not signing with the UFC. He (more accurately M1) can do what he wants. As long as good fights are lined up, I will watch them. I can see paying for a Fedor vs. Overeem and that’s about it outside the UFC.

I do have a problem with how Fedor nuthuggers frame the discussion.

Trust me, all the HW champs from here on out will lose at least 4-5 matches. The competition is ridiculous. Even your hero Lesnar is going to drop a couple in the next couple of years. Fedor hasn’t since a bogus stoppage in 2000. That feat will not be repeated for a long, long time. It won’t be that hard to back up the claim that he was the most dominate HW ever.

Competition is lightyears ahead now. We have true HWs that are world class athletes, not just LHWs that don’t want to cut. Going undefeated is not going to happen. Fedor may forever hold the moniker of the best ever. This gets less likely if he does not fight the very best while he is still fighting.

Interesting matchups do not equate legitimizing his career.

You keep changing the arguement. I wonder why? Nobody is saying he needs to do anything to legitimize his career.

Just because Carwin signed with the UFC doesn’t make him any more legitimate an opponent than Brett Rodgers who sports a similar resume.

No, but being more talented does. Do you actually watch figths or just look at records on wiki?

I’ve been watching MMA for a long time.

this answers my previous question, but has me scratching my head on the comparison of Rogers and Carwin.

While I understand animosity an elitist attitude can engender, the fact is that many of you are blinded by the UFC glitter - much as many were blinded by the same when Pride was viewed as the number 1 org.

They have the best talent. The consistantly test their best talent. Yes, some of the various rankings allow fighter to keep their rankings while fighting subpar competition but fighters in the UFC don’t have this luxury.

[quote]
I appreciate that the UFC is the premier organization at this point in time, but there are plenty of fighters that exist outside the UFC realm that would absolutely wreak havoc on their respective divisions. [/quote]
We are talking about the HWs. I can think of three HWs outside of Fedor that would be competitive in the UFC, much less “wreak havoc”. Unfortunatly, all three seem to have issues fighting in the US where we test. Other divisions in the UFC are even more dominant.

[Big_Boss]

Dhickey,

People are acting like a spoiled brat…whose mom won’t buy them a toy when they have plenty…or the greedy kid who’s dad won’t let them have more cake after already having three pieces. I’m with slimjim on this. This isn’t about “Fedor nuthuggery”…it’s about perspective. Something that is being pushed to the side by elitist attitudes…just plain spoilage from the UFC fan base. You’re blind if you don’t see this from others…and in some of your own comments.

In fact,your arguments in response to slimjim are very,very subjective…no definite truths to any of it,bro. This is ALL subjective. You claim no problem with Fedor not signing to the UFC. And if that is truly the case in how you feel…then it’s even more puzzling that you’re offended by slimjim’s perspective on this matter. How dare anyone have a negative opinion of the UFC? You don’t have to be a “Fedor nuthugger” to see that the UFC is IN FACT a monopoly. M-1’s absurd,greedy attitude and wanting to co-promote doesn’t change that fact,either. Less we forget what kind of selfish owner Dana White is??

On that note,we don’t truly know what the UFC offered Fedor…or the details of it. Fedor has already stated that the UFC offer that was floating around wasn’t true. We can’t act like we have the facts about talks between M-1/Fedor and the UFC. We sure as hell can’t be offended by those who are not following suit in making Fedor/M-1 look like pieces of shit in this,either.

Ahh…“As The MMA World Turns”…perfect name for this soap opera. But slowing turning into “All My MMA Children.”

[dhickey]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Dhickey,

People are acting like a spoiled brat…whose mom won’t buy them a toy when they have plenty…or the greedy kid who’s dad won’t let them have more cake after already having three pieces. I’m with slimjim on this. This isn’t about “Fedor nuthuggery”…it’s about perspective. Something that is being pushed to the side by elitist attitudes…just plain spoilage from the UFC fan base.
[/quote]
This is the part that prompted the response:

“Fedor is taking a stand against the promotional monopoly that the UFC has on MMA stateside. He is one of the few fighters that could do so, and is apparently willing to take a hit in the pocketbooks to do it.”

This is grade A bullshit. If he was truly taking a stand there would be no negotiations and the deal wouldn’t be hinging on co-promotion with M1. I am trying to take a logical look at the situation.

What the fuck would M1 provide in terms of promotion? nothing.

The UFC has conceded many of the demands that the Fedor bitches complained about endlessly before. Can wear M1 logos, can do Sambo, can make more money than any other MMA fighter in the UFC.

Fedor’s legacy is cemented whether or not he fights in the UFC, but he cannot stay at the top of the rankings if he doesn’t fight top competition. He can certainly be considered a hall of famer just like Royce, Sakaraba, Matt Hughes, ect. None of these guys remained at the top of the rankings because they used to dominate over top competition.

If he stays outside the UFC, he is off the top of the rankings in a year. There simply are not enough top tier fighters outside the UFC. Those that publish rankings won’t be able to keep moving HWs up the rankings simply becuase they are scheduled to fight Fedor.

Fedor doesn’t need the UFC. The UFC doesn’t need Fedor. This has nothing to do with people being disappointed that we won’t see some very exciting match-ups.

You’re blind if you don’t see this from others…and in some of your own comments.

I see lots of stupid shit from others. I am commenting on this singular piece of bullshit.

In fact,your arguments in response to slimjim are very,very subjective…no definite truths to any of it,bro. This is ALL subjective.

Agreed. Again, attempting to look at this logically. See points above and comment if you disagree.

You claim no problem with Fedor not signing to the UFC. And if that is truly the case in how you feel…then it’s even more puzzling that you’re offended by slimjim’s perspective on this matter.

I disagree that this is some noble quest by fedor to stand up the evil UFC. It’s about money and power on both sides. I have no problem with that on either side.

How dare anyone have a negative opinion of the UFC? You don’t have to be a “Fedor nuthugger” to see that the UFC is IN FACT a monopoly. M-1’s absurd, greedy attitude and wanting to co-promote doesn’t change that fact, either. Less we forget what kind of selfish owner Dana White is??

As long as we call a spade a spade.

On that note,we don’t truly know what the UFC offered Fedor…or the details of it. Fedor has already stated that the UFC offer that was floating around wasn’t true.

Did Fedor say that directly? This is what has been said that sounds reasonable and has not been denied:

UFC - We offered him more money than anyone else on the roster.
UFC - He can compete in Sambo every Thursday if he wants.
UFC - He enter the ring covered head to toe in M1 (competing promoter) logos.
UFC - The deal stalled because of co-promotion with M1.

Strikeforce - He wants too much money
Strikeforce - Co promotion is an issue.

M1 - The UFC is not willing to negotiate. They do not address any specifics.
M1 - Their business plan is to use Fedor as a bargaining chip for co-promotion

Alex - Finklestein is the issue.

We can’t act like we have the facts about talks between M-1/Fedor and the UFC. We sure as hell can’t be offended by those who are not following suit in making Fedor/M-1 look like pieces of shit in this,either.

True. We can however read what has been said, and more importantly not said, and make reasonable assertions. The fact of the matter is if Fedor wanted to fight in the UFC he would take what appears to be the most lucrative and lenient contract ever offered. If his stake in the M1 promotion, and building it into a showcase for other fighters is more important to him, fine. But let’s at least be honest about what going on here.

Ahh…“As The MMA World Turns”…perfect name for this soap opera. But slowing turning into “All My MMA Children.”

The fact is there is nothing new to see here. Fedor is attached to M1. M1 uses him as the ultimate bargaining chip to build their brand by attaching themselves to other organizations that just need Fedor, not promotional help. Smart move on their part. Sucks for fans that want to see Fedor in the best organization.

MMA is a business. Why is this so hard to admit?

I have no allegiance to the UFC. If they put on the best fights, I gladly pay to see them. If Fedor can’t come to the UFC for whatever reason, I would be just as happy to see the best of the HW talent leave the UFC to fight him. This just isn’t going to happen.

[dhickey]

Dana White negotiates with Fedor

[John_S1]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
http://fedordodge.ytmnd.com[/quote]

Awesome.

[slimjim]

The problem I have with your style of posting is that you can’t put together a complete/coherrent argument so you instead seek to ‘win’ by simply finding points in my paragraph that you disagree with and attempt to undermine my own contentions by nitpicking at minor points while ignoring the overall message and intent of my posts.

It is illogical to say that Arlovski and Sylvia have been proven to be non-top ten guys because they lost to Fedor (and an up and coming prospect in Rodgers in Arlovski’s case) and are outside of the UFC. When they each lost while under the UFC banner they were still top ten, but now that they fall outside the scope of the UFC they are somehow subject to a different set of judgements?

I really don’t care enough to enlighten you further on this subject, but this is exactly the same kind of argument that took place when Pride was number 1 and the subsequent years have shown that there were fighters in the UFC who were on the same level as the guys in Pride. A similar reality will be shown to this next generation of MMA fans as well.

[slimjim]

Fedor’s offer was significantly less than 30 mil for 6 fights. I don’t think he would’ve turned down that kind of money, co-promotion or not.

[John_S1]

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Fedor’s offer was significantly less than 30 mil for 6 fights. I don’t think he would’ve turned down that kind of money, co-promotion or not.[/quote]

Got proof? so far everything I have seen points to 30 mil for 6 fights.

[dhickey]

“Yes, co-promotion means a 50/50 investment by M-1 and the UFC. You sit down with the hard numbers. What’s the fight purses? What’s the venue? What’s the advertising budget? Travel, food, throw it all in a pot, split it down the middle, and at the end of the event if the ink is black and there’s a profit, split the profit, and if the ink is red, then just split the loss… We’re not asking for more than what’s fair. We’re just asking for it to be a level playing field. We have the best fighter in the world. The fans want to see it… If they want to say they got the top fighter in the world, prove it. We’re willing to prove it. Fedor’s willing to fight anybody anytime. And he is, he’s willing to fight anybody [but] on equal terms. We’re not asking for more. We won’t settle for less - we’re not asking for more though. Fedor will fight anybody on equal terms. So if Dana believes he has the best fighters in the world then shut up or put up.”

-USA M-1 Vice President Jerry Millen sheds light on his companies desires regarding co-promotion with the UFC.

There you have it. They want a 50/50 split with the UFC for any card Fedor is on. Can we quit with all the other nonsense now?

[dhickey]

“I can say that the guaranteed – and the word â??guaranteed’ is of great importance here – the guaranteed offer made by the UFC is less than what Fedor made before. The five-million (per fight) is way, way, way out of range. Half of that is even way out of range of what they offered. And there were a number of provisions attached to that offer that made it very much less interesting. We made it clear that Fedor, now and forever is part, even part owner, of M-1 and those two cannot be separated. If the rest of M-1 is excluded from any kind of deal, it makes the deal difficult. Sometimes the fans don’t realize that there is a business to run and all these statements, â??These M-1 idiots, why don’t they just give Fedor to the UFC because they’ve offered him the best money?’ This is a completely unsubstantiated rumor that the UFC has offered the best money for Fedor ever. This is just not the case. We had a very professional, productive and respectful meeting with the UFC. I think both parties walked away (knowing) even though a deal wasn’t made, that a very decent meeting was had.”

-M-1 Global CEO Joost Raimond

[slimjim]

[quote]John S. wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Fedor’s offer was significantly less than 30 mil for 6 fights. I don’t think he would’ve turned down that kind of money, co-promotion or not.

Got proof? so far everything I have seen points to 30 mil for 6 fights.[/quote]

You got any proof showing that they offered him 30 mil for 6 fights? Any contracts released by the UFC? Negative ghost rider. Everything you’ve seen pointing towards 30 mil for 6 has been provided by UFC sources (and reported by guys like Dave Meltzer)

[slimjim]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
“Yes, co-promotion means a 50/50 investment by M-1 and the UFC. You sit down with the hard numbers. What’s the fight purses? What’s the venue? What’s the advertising budget? Travel, food, throw it all in a pot, split it down the middle, and at the end of the event if the ink is black and there’s a profit, split the profit, and if the ink is red, then just split the loss… We’re not asking for more than what’s fair. We’re just asking for it to be a level playing field. We have the best fighter in the world. The fans want to see it… If they want to say they got the top fighter in the world, prove it. We’re willing to prove it. Fedor’s willing to fight anybody anytime. And he is, he’s willing to fight anybody [but] on equal terms. We’re not asking for more. We won’t settle for less - we’re not asking for more though. Fedor will fight anybody on equal terms. So if Dana believes he has the best fighters in the world then shut up or put up.”

-USA M-1 Vice President Jerry Millen sheds light on his companies desires regarding co-promotion with the UFC.

There you have it. They want a 50/50 split with the UFC for any card Fedor is on. Can we quit with all the other nonsense now?[/quote]

I’m unsure as to who was arguing against this notion. M-1 still holds Fedor under contract. Any exclusive contract he could sign with the UFC would hinge on being released from M-1. M-1 would not give up their best guy, hence it really isn’t solely Fedor’s choice whether or not to accept such an offer.

[dhickey]

[quote]slimjim wrote:
John S. wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Fedor’s offer was significantly less than 30 mil for 6 fights. I don’t think he would’ve turned down that kind of money, co-promotion or not.

Got proof? so far everything I have seen points to 30 mil for 6 fights.

You got any proof showing that they offered him 30 mil for 6 fights? Any contracts released by the UFC? Negative ghost rider. Everything you’ve seen pointing towards 30 mil for 6 has been provided by UFC sources (and reported by guys like Dave Meltzer)[/quote]

Many sites are reporting that the guaranteed money was 6m for 3 fights.

[dhickey]

[quote]slimjim wrote:
dhickey wrote:
“Yes, co-promotion means a 50/50 investment by M-1 and the UFC. You sit down with the hard numbers. What’s the fight purses? What’s the venue? What’s the advertising budget? Travel, food, throw it all in a pot, split it down the middle, and at the end of the event if the ink is black and there’s a profit, split the profit, and if the ink is red, then just split the loss… We’re not asking for more than what’s fair. We’re just asking for it to be a level playing field. We have the best fighter in the world. The fans want to see it… If they want to say they got the top fighter in the world, prove it. We’re willing to prove it. Fedor’s willing to fight anybody anytime. And he is, he’s willing to fight anybody [but] on equal terms. We’re not asking for more. We won’t settle for less - we’re not asking for more though. Fedor will fight anybody on equal terms. So if Dana believes he has the best fighters in the world then shut up or put up.”

-USA M-1 Vice President Jerry Millen sheds light on his companies desires regarding co-promotion with the UFC.

There you have it. They want a 50/50 split with the UFC for any card Fedor is on. Can we quit with all the other nonsense now?

I’m unsure as to who was arguing against this notion. M-1 still holds Fedor under contract. Any exclusive contract he could sign with the UFC would hinge on being released from M-1. M-1 would not give up their best guy, hence it really isn’t solely Fedor’s choice whether or not to accept such an offer. [/quote]

Some are arguing this:

The thing is, Fedor is taking a stand against the promotional monopoly that the UFC has on MMA stateside. He is one of the few fighters that could do so, and is apparently willing to take a hit in the pocketbooks to do it

Fedor is M1. If he wants the deal to get done, it will get done.

[slimjim]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
slimjim wrote:
dhickey wrote:
“Yes, co-promotion means a 50/50 investment by M-1 and the UFC. You sit down with the hard numbers. What’s the fight purses? What’s the venue? What’s the advertising budget? Travel, food, throw it all in a pot, split it down the middle, and at the end of the event if the ink is black and there’s a profit, split the profit, and if the ink is red, then just split the loss… We’re not asking for more than what’s fair. We’re just asking for it to be a level playing field. We have the best fighter in the world. The fans want to see it… If they want to say they got the top fighter in the world, prove it. We’re willing to prove it. Fedor’s willing to fight anybody anytime. And he is, he’s willing to fight anybody [but] on equal terms. We’re not asking for more. We won’t settle for less - we’re not asking for more though. Fedor will fight anybody on equal terms. So if Dana believes he has the best fighters in the world then shut up or put up.”

-USA M-1 Vice President Jerry Millen sheds light on his companies desires regarding co-promotion with the UFC.

There you have it. They want a 50/50 split with the UFC for any card Fedor is on. Can we quit with all the other nonsense now?

I’m unsure as to who was arguing against this notion. M-1 still holds Fedor under contract. Any exclusive contract he could sign with the UFC would hinge on being released from M-1. M-1 would not give up their best guy, hence it really isn’t solely Fedor’s choice whether or not to accept such an offer.

Some are arguing this:

The thing is, Fedor is taking a stand against the promotional monopoly that the UFC has on MMA stateside. He is one of the few fighters that could do so, and is apparently willing to take a hit in the pocketbooks to do it

Fedor is M1. If he wants the deal to get done, it will get done.
[/quote]

So your evidence that Fedor is not taking a stand against a promotional monopoly the UFC enjoys is an article stating that M-1 demands a 50/50 split with the UFC on any card Fedor is in?

[dhickey]

He’s not taking a stance against anything. They are looking for the best offer, as they should be. They are not going to sign a deal with another promotion for less money (fedor and M1), simply to make stand as you suggest. The UFC has insulted Fedor and M1 several times over the year, yet there they sit at the negotiation table. As much as you would like to make this some sort of personal crusade against the evil UFC, that is simply not the case.

Sorry, they are just not onboard for your anit-UFC crusade.

[slimjim]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
He’s not taking a stance against anything. They are looking for the best offer, as they should be. They are not going to sign a deal with another promotion for less money (fedor and M1), simply to make stand as you suggest. The UFC has insulted Fedor and M1 several times over the year, yet there they sit at the negotiation table. As much as you would like to make this some sort of personal crusade against the evil UFC, that is simply not the case.

Sorry, they are just not onboard for your anit-UFC crusade.[/quote]

If they are telling the UFC they can’t use their fighter, the number 1 hw in the world unless the UFC agrees to co-promote an event with them, how is that not taking a stand against the promotional monopoly the UFC enjoys?

[Cockney_Blue]

If Fedor goes to the UFC without M1 then M1 is done, Finklestein knows that hence his stand and Fedor is doing what his manager says.

[WhiteFlash]

One man to blame in UFC-Fedor breakdown

[dhickey]

[quote]slimjim wrote:
dhickey wrote:
He’s not taking a stance against anything. They are looking for the best offer, as they should be. They are not going to sign a deal with another promotion for less money (fedor and M1), simply to make stand as you suggest. The UFC has insulted Fedor and M1 several times over the year, yet there they sit at the negotiation table. As much as you would like to make this some sort of personal crusade against the evil UFC, that is simply not the case.

Sorry, they are just not onboard for your anit-UFC crusade.

If they are telling the UFC they can’t use their fighter, the number 1 hw in the world unless the UFC agrees to co-promote an event with them, how is that not taking a stand against the promotional monopoly the UFC enjoys?[/quote]

You and I both know what you meant in your original statement. You and I both know how you feel about the UFC and your wet dream that Fedor will not sign with them no matter what the offer. As much you would like this to be some sort of spiritual quest based only on principal, it is not. Fedor fights for money, that’s it. He has said this many times. He has said he is not a fan of the sport and does not watch fights or follow other fighters. It’s a job to him.

I am done with this discussion, but by all means continue with your Fedor man crush and UFC hating.