FBI Declassifies Roswell Files

Even if the odds of a planet being able to sustain life is billions to one, there are hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy alone. There are TRILLIONS of galaxies in the universe, many of them much larger than our own. I don’t think you comprehend just how mind fuckingly huge the universe is.

The scientists who claim life has to exist somewhere else aren’t stupid, they know it takes a special set of circumstances for life to form. But in the grand scheme of the things, the prerequisites really aren’t all that difficult.

If their isn’t any signs of life out there, how do you explain all the trolls that frequent this web site?

[quote]overstand wrote:
Even if the odds of a planet being able to sustain life is billions to one, there are hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy alone. There are TRILLIONS of galaxies in the universe, many of them much larger than our own. I don’t think you comprehend just how mind fuckingly huge the universe is.

The scientists who claim life has to exist somewhere else aren’t stupid, they know it takes a special set of circumstances for life to form. But in the grand scheme of the things, the prerequisites really aren’t all that difficult. [/quote]

This.

When talking about “odds” of certain conditions for life forming elsewhere, I don’t think it really applies to the universe, purely because it’s just about infinite.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I don’t have a huge problem with your premise but a couple of counterpoints to the above:

Concerning mass extinction events, are we talking climate and asteroid or comet collisions? As for collisions, our planet and solar system are unique in at least two respects that I’m aware of; Jupiter, which actually clean our solar system of many objects that would collide with us and the asteroid belt, which supplies much of that junk. If another solar system supporting life had a similar asteroid belt, it would need a Jupiter type planet to keep it relatively safe. So, two points here: Another planet in another solar system may not necessarily face danger from objects in space and, if it does, it needs a Jupiter.
[/quote]

Can’t disagree with any of the above. However to your query - there are a few causes of extinctions entirely terrestrial, from the declination of sea-levels to volcanism. I was surprised to discover that it’s been proposed that asteroids have actually caused less mass extinction events than what I had believed. It’s proposed that the last couple of major mass extinctions were actually results of volcanic activity. Of course we’re talking MASSIVE volcanism here - absolutely dwarfing the eruption of 1783. So, asteroids or not - our planet is pretty effecient when it comes to cleansing its surface and mixing things up a bit. I would expect other terra planets to be much the same.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Next, in terms of climate, there is no evidence that another planet would have to undergo the same climatic fluctuations Earth did. Also, given greater age and evolutionary time, a race could conceivably control or manipulate climate and, certainly protect it’s planet against objects from space (we’re working on that now).
[/quote]

True. I could say that the older a planet is then the older it’s sun is and of course that brings it’s own peril. We’ve only got another 500-900 million years before we can say goodbye to life on earth and our sun is only 4 and a half billion years old? A race advanced enough could, I guess, conceivably protect itself from certain environmental factors. But, well, yea anything is conceivable. Taking a model similar to Earth we’re looking at multitudes of extinctions, every 30 million years or so (we’re apparently on a lucky streak at the moment) and a habitable planet, provided for by our Sun, for approximately 6 billion years or so. That’s alot of windows for a civilisation to grow, but to an extent where it can leave it’s planet and explore the great beyond?

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You’re also making a few assumptions about our evolution. Perhaps our DNA was seeded from space, in which case, the blueprint for humanity lies elsewhere in the universe.
[/quote]

Again true, but I’m coming from a cynical point of view. I would love to believe aliens have been harvesting our planet as some sort of extra-galactic experiment and fucking us up with things like corn or that our dna was carried from a dying Mars on solar winds, but that’s the part of me that enjoys sci-fi and fantasy.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The above said, I do agree with you that it’s an enormous oversimplification of the odds of life to merely posit that due to the enormity of the universe, life HAS to exist somewhere else. This ignores the tremendous odds against life forming, and the conditions that had to line up just right for life to take hold here is probably billions to one.
[/quote]

We’re on the same page really.

[quote]overstand wrote:
Even if the odds of a planet being able to sustain life is billions to one, there are hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy alone. There are TRILLIONS of galaxies in the universe, many of them much larger than our own. I don’t think you comprehend just how mind fuckingly huge the universe is.

The scientists who claim life has to exist somewhere else aren’t stupid, they know it takes a special set of circumstances for life to form. But in the grand scheme of the things, the prerequisites really aren’t all that difficult. [/quote]

Lol! The universe is about as massive as the difference between life existing on another planet and aliens overcoming space and time to travel through galaxies. No one here has suggested there isn’t life out there. Quite probably on some other planet some other Overstand is insisting there’s life out there. But we’re not talking about life, or even intelligent civilisations. We’re talking about the complexities and special circumstances it would take for a civilisation to evolve long enough to leave their own planet and become space nomads and the prerequisites for that are HYUOOGE!

No one here is underestimating just how inconceivably massive the universe is (that doesn’t sound right ;p) however alot of people seem to be underestimating exactly how frequently and easily civilisations are destroyed by natural, terrestrial, occurences and the profound effect that has on the evolution of life on a planet.

And the scientists claiming there is life out there aren’t actually saying there are green men flying spaceships around…

I would propose that if there are spaceships out there they’re entirely robotic and have flying around for millions of years on autopilot while their race has long become extinct. Now there’s a thought.

[quote]Stern wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

The universe is 13 billion years old, the planet Earth is 4 billion years old. You don’t believe that the concurrent prerequisites needed to support a life in space can’t happen simultaneously throughout the galaxy?

If our technology is as such after being around for 4 billion years, imagine what the technology is of other beings that have been around 2x as long. Imagine 3x as long. And never mind technology, imagine the mental and dimensional capacities they must have as well!

In other words, you’re right, i think its amazing that humans have the capacity to imagine such things, but I think its our lack of imagination that’s holding us back from truly realizing what’s going on here on earth, in the universe and beyond .

[/quote]

We’ll have to agree to disagree Mascherano. :wink:

The way I see it - if you want to count the evolution of single-cell organisms then yes - we’ve been around for 4 billion years, 3 billion of which we were still microorganisms. If you want to speak specifically of our species however, which has only been given the chance to rise to dominance at the whim of mass extinction events, then we’re but a twinkle in the earth’s eye; a couple hundred thousand years of establishing dominance. Now we could quite easily be thrown back into the ocean come the next mass extinction event. And there will be one - of that there is no doubt. The last one was what, 60 million years ago and there have been a handful of them within the last 500 million years alone? Each one wiping out thousands of species and changing heirarchy of life on earth.

Now it would stand to reason that a parallel planet that meets all the criteria neccessary to allow lifeforms to evolve in an environment capable of producing intelligent life (and let’s not beat about the bush here it would basically have to be another planet earth, pure hydrogen/water/iron planets and the like just won’t do) would also suffer the same extinction events that we observe in our own solar system wouldn’t you agree?

So with that assumption in mind a planet twice the age of the earth quite likely will have also suffered twice as many events. The amount of species that have been born, evolved and then wiped out on earth is incredible. It’s beyond incredible actually - it’s terrifying.

So not only would you have to meet all the crazy criteria that our earth did - distance from a certain star in a certain phase and a terrestrial planet with a history of glaciation, photosynthesis, all the rest…you would also have to have a species that has survived numerous exctinction events to remain the dominant life on that planet (or evolve at an indescribable rate in which case, well, there you go ;p) AND be a species with not only a brain capable of thinking about more than just food and fucking but also possessing a phsyique which allows that species to break certain barriers in evolution - hands with opposing thumbs, for a start. To illustrate my point - as intelligent as we believe dolphins to be (a species that is 50 million years old or so?) I can’t see them really making ships capable of deep space travel in the foreseeable future. They just don’t have the tools for it. Maybe they’ll evolve to mind-control the human race and get us to do it or something I dunno, but I digress…

The bottom line is there is a staggering amount of criteria to be met and while it’s not impossible, lady luck plays such a huge part in it that it makes it less and less likely the older the planet is. Considering how far away we are from deep space travel - if we even ever get there at all!, I would be amazed if there are civilisations out there nipping through space at whim.

But feel free to bash my cynicism. I mean at the end of the day - what the fuck do I know? =P

[/quote]

I’m afraid, this nice big post is just an example of us humans thinking we are special and this planet is somehow special and unique. You can come up with all the special circumstances of how a planet can have life on it, that you want. but the fact remains, its not all that difficult. just in this galaxy alone, forget the billions of others, just in this one, there are billions of stars. You don’t think, that there are tons of planets circling these stars. of course there is. i think earth is special compared to the other planets in this solar system, but thats about it. as far as earth being special compared to the other 900 billion planets out there, im not so sure we are all that special.

We has humans, we love to try and convince ourselves that we are somehow special, that ufos don’t exist. Those who say, why would our government keep ufos secret, gee, i don’t know, why did they keep Area 51 a secret till just a few years ago when they were forced to admit its existance. Even if this planet is somewhat special, you don’t think there are billions of other somewhat special planets out there. and whos to say, other life forms need the same sort of oxygen nitrogen atmosphere we do. maybe they can survive off of a completely different type of atmosphere. Just as people once thought the earth was flat, still today, some people question life elsewhere. i feel sad for those people.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]saveski wrote:
funny that now that there are 250 million video/phone cameras in use - AND NO VIDEO OF BIGFOOT or UFOs (and by that I mean a spaceship actually landing and some little fuckers getting off) or LOCH NESS MONSTER, or GHOSTS, or the VOICE OF GOD, et al.

I’m sure that all the videos in that clip are explainable - rockets, military tests, reflections, etc.[/quote]

yes, we are the only living beings in this entire universe. this one little tiny planet is the only place where there is life. do you realize the odds on that being the case. the odds on that are so low, it probably can’t even be computed. what does that tell you. all the people that were around, when the roswell incident happened, are all dead. the fact is, a ufo did indeed crash landed. sure, you can refuse to beleive it. but the fact is, the military was there in great number for a reason. if it was a weather balloon as they say, why did they show up in droves and not let anyone near the site. even today, if you go near the site, people in jeeps follow you. [/quote]
Just to be clear, Area 51 is a military base and I’m pretty sure if you go to any other military base they don’t invite you in for coffee.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
I’m afraid, this nice big post is just an example of us humans thinking we are special and this planet is somehow special and unique. You can come up with all the special circumstances of how a planet can have life on it, that you want. but the fact remains, its not all that difficult. just in this galaxy alone, forget the billions of others, just in this one, there are billions of stars. You don’t think, that there are tons of planets circling these stars. of course there is. i think earth is special compared to the other planets in this solar system, but thats about it. as far as earth being special compared to the other 900 billion planets out there, im not so sure we are all that special.

We has humans, we love to try and convince ourselves that we are somehow special, that ufos don’t exist. Those who say, why would our government keep ufos secret, gee, i don’t know, why did they keep Area 51 a secret till just a few years ago when they were forced to admit its existance. Even if this planet is somewhat special, you don’t think there are billions of other somewhat special planets out there. and whos to say, other life forms need the same sort of oxygen nitrogen atmosphere we do. maybe they can survive off of a completely different type of atmosphere. Just as people once thought the earth was flat, still today, some people question life elsewhere. i feel sad for those people.
[/quote]

Ok, first of all, our planet IS special. It’s AMAZING, as a matter of fact. For you to even suggest it’s merely ‘somewhat’ special (in regards to a perfect life-sustaining environment) really does highlight exactly how little you appreciate this planet and the rise and fall of it’s biodiversity over billions of years. I love how you say “its not all that difficult”, as if Earth just had to walk down to the shops and ask for “a packet of hominids to go, please!”

lol, cmon man, really? Do you truly think it’s not difficult for the right circumstances to align to allow a species to evolve to a state where they can consider traversing space efficiently? Taking a hunch here - do you believe that, somewhere out there, it’s like Star Trek and we just haven’t been invited to the extrasolar party yet?

Secondly, about Area 51 (where you earlier claimed it’s a “fact” that a ufo dropped there?!?) again…seriously? Why did the government keep a ‘secret’ air force research facility secret? Does that even need an answer? How shit would it be if every country disclosed the locations or acknowledged the existence of suspected secret facilities? They wouldn’t be very secret would they? And why would the government attempt to dispel/discredit “aliens” at their facility anyway? It’s a fantastic propaganda tool- the american goverment developing alien weaponry. Keep the enemy on their toes and guessing! It’s perfect. The CIA must’ve been lapping that shit up when Marcel surfaced in 1978 and said he had actually held, what he believed to be, part of an alien spacecraft. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if the CIA was in on the hoax as I have no doubt that’s right up their street.

At the end of the day, even pro-UFO researchers have conceded that they were wrong and now believe that Projecy Mogul was indeed a secret aerial project gone awry (possibly a coverup for what they were actually testing) and not an alien craft. Yet, still, people believe the hoax and hype and live the dream - hook, line and sinker without any factual evidence to support the claim bar ‘alleged witnesses’ and incredibly flexible testimonies like that of Mr ‘Can I change my mind yet?’ Marcel. Even though Marcel, who actually rekindled the whole conspiracy, has pretty much been debunked by pro and anti-UFO sources. He lied about credentials. He backtracked from previous statements. He showed a great capacity for exaggeration and attention-seeking.

Roswell: a modern folktale.

Lastly, please, don’t be sad for me. I possess a fantastic imagination and love every aspect of this universe that I can comprehend and have burning questions of my own about the world. I also appreciate and am consistently reminded of the beauty of this planet and the creatures living on it. All this helps me live an excellent life without having to resort to blind faith in things like UFO conspiracies. I need no man’s sympathy!

edit - and again, to belabor the point, the scientific community at large do not believe there are aliens flying around in UFO’s! But if you feel you know better, then feel free to believe in what you will. However when putting forth your ‘opinion’ realise there is a clear distinction between alien life (of any kind) existing on other planets and alien life developed enough to conquer space. When scientists refer to alien life on other planets - they’re usually referring to the former, not the latter.

[quote]-LL- wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/8442464/Exploding-UFOs-and-alien-landings-in-secret-FBI-files.html
Just a quick summary.

Trying to read the files(here: FBI Records: The Vault — UFO) is proving to be tedious to say the least.
I’ve always been on the fence(and to be honest, not all that bothered) about ET life, but the FBI releasing these files is a big step, the first of many I’d wager.

Thoughts…?[/quote]

Thoughts?

  1. You idiot.

  2. Matter can’t travel faster than the speed of light and the creation of a wormhole would require more energy than an exploding supernovae.

  3. There’s a big difference between believing that ET life may exist somewhere in the universe and believing that aliens crashed a flying saucer in New Mexico in 1947 and that the FBI/CIA/Illuminati/whatever are hiding the truth from the people.[/quote]

  4. He didn’t say anything outlandish, or make any crazy assumptions.

  5. Wormholes only exist in theory, so we have no concept of what they would require to create.

  6. What would happen on Earth if we did find out if we regularly have ET visitors?[/quote]

  7. He said he’s reading through declassified files on the Roswell incident and that he’s not sure whether he believes it or not. That’s not outlandish. Just stupid.

  8. We can calculate exactly how much energy would be required to create a Schwarzschild wormhole using Einstein’s field equations. Whether or not it is possible is a different story.

  9. Hard to say. What would happen if we found out that the earth is flat and is balanced on the back of a giant turtle?

[quote]Tyrant wrote:
with the universe the size it is, I would be more surprised if there wasn’t another life form.[/quote]

The universe being the size it is it is impossible for that life form to visit us.

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Tyrant wrote:
with the universe the size it is, I would be more surprised if there wasn’t another life form.[/quote]

The universe being the size it is it is impossible for that life form to visit us.[/quote]

Nothing is impossible…

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/8442464/Exploding-UFOs-and-alien-landings-in-secret-FBI-files.html
Just a quick summary.

Trying to read the files(here: FBI Records: The Vault — UFO) is proving to be tedious to say the least.
I’ve always been on the fence(and to be honest, not all that bothered) about ET life, but the FBI releasing these files is a big step, the first of many I’d wager.

Thoughts…?[/quote]

Thoughts?

  1. You idiot.

  2. Matter can’t travel faster than the speed of light and the creation of a wormhole would require more energy than an exploding supernovae.

  3. There’s a big difference between believing that ET life may exist somewhere in the universe and believing that aliens crashed a flying saucer in New Mexico in 1947 and that the FBI/CIA/Illuminati/whatever are hiding the truth from the people.[/quote]

You will discover your clear thinking and logic is as alien to the forum as ET.

[quote]Mascherano wrote:
Not to get carried away here, but I bet we could make a case for how agriculture was introduced to the entire planet by extra terrestrials!

The Neolithic founder crops also date from 7000 BC, but were found in the Egypt, china, Africa - which would mean humans from all over the planet figured out how to grow crops at relatively the same time…hm…

Let me put on my metal colander and get back to you on this![/quote]

Or that trade and travel existed at the time.

[quote]RSGZ wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Tyrant wrote:
with the universe the size it is, I would be more surprised if there wasn’t another life form.[/quote]

The universe being the size it is it is impossible for that life form to visit us.[/quote]

Nothing is impossible…[/quote]

Wrong.

It is the height of human arrogance to assume that deep space travel is impossible simply because we don’t have the technology for it today. 100 years ago people thought it was impossible to go to the moon, and with technology advancing at an exponential rate nobody can predict what will happen even in the next hundred years, let alone 1000 or 2000 years from now.

I’ve read that it is theoretically possible to travel faster than the speed of light. I’m no physicist but it involves bending the fabric of space time around a vehicle.

Mascherano’s ass is out of this world.

That’s all the proof I need to believe in aliens.

[quote]overstand wrote:
Even if the odds of a planet being able to sustain life is billions to one, there are hundreds of billions of solar systems in our galaxy alone. There are TRILLIONS of galaxies in the universe, many of them much larger than our own. I don’t think you comprehend just how mind fuckingly huge the universe is.

The scientists who claim life has to exist somewhere else aren’t stupid, they know it takes a special set of circumstances for life to form. But in the grand scheme of the things, the prerequisites really aren’t all that difficult. [/quote]

I contemplate how enormous the universe is all the time. What you’re missing is the math for life to form. If you do a fair comparison of the two, you’d find that “there must be life elsewhere” is a bit of an oversimplification.

[quote]Stern wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I don’t have a huge problem with your premise but a couple of counterpoints to the above:

Concerning mass extinction events, are we talking climate and asteroid or comet collisions? As for collisions, our planet and solar system are unique in at least two respects that I’m aware of; Jupiter, which actually clean our solar system of many objects that would collide with us and the asteroid belt, which supplies much of that junk. If another solar system supporting life had a similar asteroid belt, it would need a Jupiter type planet to keep it relatively safe. So, two points here: Another planet in another solar system may not necessarily face danger from objects in space and, if it does, it needs a Jupiter.
[/quote]

Can’t disagree with any of the above. However to your query - there are a few causes of extinctions entirely terrestrial, from the declination of sea-levels to volcanism. I was surprised to discover that it’s been proposed that asteroids have actually caused less mass extinction events than what I had believed. It’s proposed that the last couple of major mass extinctions were actually results of volcanic activity. Of course we’re talking MASSIVE volcanism here - absolutely dwarfing the eruption of 1783. So, asteroids or not - our planet is pretty effecient when it comes to cleansing its surface and mixing things up a bit. I would expect other terra planets to be much the same.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Next, in terms of climate, there is no evidence that another planet would have to undergo the same climatic fluctuations Earth did. Also, given greater age and evolutionary time, a race could conceivably control or manipulate climate and, certainly protect it’s planet against objects from space (we’re working on that now).
[/quote]

True. I could say that the older a planet is then the older it’s sun is and of course that brings it’s own peril. We’ve only got another 500-900 million years before we can say goodbye to life on earth and our sun is only 4 and a half billion years old? A race advanced enough could, I guess, conceivably protect itself from certain environmental factors. But, well, yea anything is conceivable. Taking a model similar to Earth we’re looking at multitudes of extinctions, every 30 million years or so (we’re apparently on a lucky streak at the moment) and a habitable planet, provided for by our Sun, for approximately 6 billion years or so. That’s alot of windows for a civilisation to grow, but to an extent where it can leave it’s planet and explore the great beyond?

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You’re also making a few assumptions about our evolution. Perhaps our DNA was seeded from space, in which case, the blueprint for humanity lies elsewhere in the universe.
[/quote]

Again true, but I’m coming from a cynical point of view. I would love to believe aliens have been harvesting our planet as some sort of extra-galactic experiment and fucking us up with things like corn or that our dna was carried from a dying Mars on solar winds, but that’s the part of me that enjoys sci-fi and fantasy.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The above said, I do agree with you that it’s an enormous oversimplification of the odds of life to merely posit that due to the enormity of the universe, life HAS to exist somewhere else. This ignores the tremendous odds against life forming, and the conditions that had to line up just right for life to take hold here is probably billions to one.
[/quote]

We’re on the same page really.[/quote]

LOL I wasn’t implying the whole harvesting deal, but I think it’s a very real possibility that the building blocks for life were seeded by the one or more of the comets the earth was bombarded with early on. That would make the origin of life “extra-terrestrial”.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Stern wrote:

[quote]Mascherano wrote:

The universe is 13 billion years old, the planet Earth is 4 billion years old. You don’t believe that the concurrent prerequisites needed to support a life in space can’t happen simultaneously throughout the galaxy?

If our technology is as such after being around for 4 billion years, imagine what the technology is of other beings that have been around 2x as long. Imagine 3x as long. And never mind technology, imagine the mental and dimensional capacities they must have as well!

In other words, you’re right, i think its amazing that humans have the capacity to imagine such things, but I think its our lack of imagination that’s holding us back from truly realizing what’s going on here on earth, in the universe and beyond .

[/quote]

We’ll have to agree to disagree Mascherano. :wink:

The way I see it - if you want to count the evolution of single-cell organisms then yes - we’ve been around for 4 billion years, 3 billion of which we were still microorganisms. If you want to speak specifically of our species however, which has only been given the chance to rise to dominance at the whim of mass extinction events, then we’re but a twinkle in the earth’s eye; a couple hundred thousand years of establishing dominance. Now we could quite easily be thrown back into the ocean come the next mass extinction event. And there will be one - of that there is no doubt. The last one was what, 60 million years ago and there have been a handful of them within the last 500 million years alone? Each one wiping out thousands of species and changing heirarchy of life on earth.

Now it would stand to reason that a parallel planet that meets all the criteria neccessary to allow lifeforms to evolve in an environment capable of producing intelligent life (and let’s not beat about the bush here it would basically have to be another planet earth, pure hydrogen/water/iron planets and the like just won’t do) would also suffer the same extinction events that we observe in our own solar system wouldn’t you agree?

So with that assumption in mind a planet twice the age of the earth quite likely will have also suffered twice as many events. The amount of species that have been born, evolved and then wiped out on earth is incredible. It’s beyond incredible actually - it’s terrifying.

So not only would you have to meet all the crazy criteria that our earth did - distance from a certain star in a certain phase and a terrestrial planet with a history of glaciation, photosynthesis, all the rest…you would also have to have a species that has survived numerous exctinction events to remain the dominant life on that planet (or evolve at an indescribable rate in which case, well, there you go ;p) AND be a species with not only a brain capable of thinking about more than just food and fucking but also possessing a phsyique which allows that species to break certain barriers in evolution - hands with opposing thumbs, for a start. To illustrate my point - as intelligent as we believe dolphins to be (a species that is 50 million years old or so?) I can’t see them really making ships capable of deep space travel in the foreseeable future. They just don’t have the tools for it. Maybe they’ll evolve to mind-control the human race and get us to do it or something I dunno, but I digress…

The bottom line is there is a staggering amount of criteria to be met and while it’s not impossible, lady luck plays such a huge part in it that it makes it less and less likely the older the planet is. Considering how far away we are from deep space travel - if we even ever get there at all!, I would be amazed if there are civilisations out there nipping through space at whim.

But feel free to bash my cynicism. I mean at the end of the day - what the fuck do I know? =P

[/quote]

I’m afraid, this nice big post is just an example of us humans thinking we are special and this planet is somehow special and unique. You can come up with all the special circumstances of how a planet can have life on it, that you want. but the fact remains, its not all that difficult. just in this galaxy alone, forget the billions of others, just in this one, there are billions of stars. You don’t think, that there are tons of planets circling these stars. of course there is. i think earth is special compared to the other planets in this solar system, but thats about it. as far as earth being special compared to the other 900 billion planets out there, im not so sure we are all that special.

We has humans, we love to try and convince ourselves that we are somehow special, that ufos don’t exist. Those who say, why would our government keep ufos secret, gee, i don’t know, why did they keep Area 51 a secret till just a few years ago when they were forced to admit its existance. Even if this planet is somewhat special, you don’t think there are billions of other somewhat special planets out there. and whos to say, other life forms need the same sort of oxygen nitrogen atmosphere we do. maybe they can survive off of a completely different type of atmosphere. Just as people once thought the earth was flat, still today, some people question life elsewhere. i feel sad for those people. [/quote]

To say Area 51 was a “secret” is an exaggeration. If it was a “secret” it was a poorly kept secret. Area 51 was used to test advanced secret craft like the stealth fighters and bombers, among others. The “secrecy” and restriction were entirely appropriate.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Stern wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I don’t have a huge problem with your premise but a couple of counterpoints to the above:

Concerning mass extinction events, are we talking climate and asteroid or comet collisions? As for collisions, our planet and solar system are unique in at least two respects that I’m aware of; Jupiter, which actually clean our solar system of many objects that would collide with us and the asteroid belt, which supplies much of that junk. If another solar system supporting life had a similar asteroid belt, it would need a Jupiter type planet to keep it relatively safe. So, two points here: Another planet in another solar system may not necessarily face danger from objects in space and, if it does, it needs a Jupiter.
[/quote]

Can’t disagree with any of the above. However to your query - there are a few causes of extinctions entirely terrestrial, from the declination of sea-levels to volcanism. I was surprised to discover that it’s been proposed that asteroids have actually caused less mass extinction events than what I had believed. It’s proposed that the last couple of major mass extinctions were actually results of volcanic activity. Of course we’re talking MASSIVE volcanism here - absolutely dwarfing the eruption of 1783. So, asteroids or not - our planet is pretty effecient when it comes to cleansing its surface and mixing things up a bit. I would expect other terra planets to be much the same.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Next, in terms of climate, there is no evidence that another planet would have to undergo the same climatic fluctuations Earth did. Also, given greater age and evolutionary time, a race could conceivably control or manipulate climate and, certainly protect it’s planet against objects from space (we’re working on that now).
[/quote]

True. I could say that the older a planet is then the older it’s sun is and of course that brings it’s own peril. We’ve only got another 500-900 million years before we can say goodbye to life on earth and our sun is only 4 and a half billion years old? A race advanced enough could, I guess, conceivably protect itself from certain environmental factors. But, well, yea anything is conceivable. Taking a model similar to Earth we’re looking at multitudes of extinctions, every 30 million years or so (we’re apparently on a lucky streak at the moment) and a habitable planet, provided for by our Sun, for approximately 6 billion years or so. That’s alot of windows for a civilisation to grow, but to an extent where it can leave it’s planet and explore the great beyond?

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You’re also making a few assumptions about our evolution. Perhaps our DNA was seeded from space, in which case, the blueprint for humanity lies elsewhere in the universe.
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Again true, but I’m coming from a cynical point of view. I would love to believe aliens have been harvesting our planet as some sort of extra-galactic experiment and fucking us up with things like corn or that our dna was carried from a dying Mars on solar winds, but that’s the part of me that enjoys sci-fi and fantasy.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The above said, I do agree with you that it’s an enormous oversimplification of the odds of life to merely posit that due to the enormity of the universe, life HAS to exist somewhere else. This ignores the tremendous odds against life forming, and the conditions that had to line up just right for life to take hold here is probably billions to one.
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We’re on the same page really.[/quote]

LOL I wasn’t implying the whole harvesting deal, but I think it’s a very real possibility that the building blocks for life were seeded by the one or more of the comets the earth was bombarded with early on. That would make the origin of life “extra-terrestrial”. [/quote]

Hahah, yea I wasn’t implying that’s what you were suggesting ^^

Collisionary theories are certainly interesting though and not entirely implausible when you consider it.