Fatloss/Blood Sugar Problem

I have always had trouble losing fat and haven’t been as lean as I want to in years, for many reasons (work, family etc) now I have decided to get as lean as possible without compromising performance as I’m trying to get back into sport. So cut a long story short I’m cutting carbs and only having them post workout and occasionally the meal after that, my diet is very similar to the one in the article “carb cycling for the non counter”.
But I have occurred a problem which sometimes rears its ugly head. After my workout I have my protein shake with a milkshake instead of water and about half hour to an hour later I have either rice and fish or sweet potato and fish as a meal. But sometime after this I break out into a.crazy sweat, I feel shaky and weak and light headed. It happened at work today and was awkward and embarrassing. I spoke to a mate about it (apologizing as he had to cover for me) he is diabetic and tested my blood sugar and it was quite low and he explained he has these symptoms when his blood sugar goes low.
Now I have been tested for diabetes numerous times and they have always come back clear. This has happened before and is driving me crazy. I have read up on this and many sites and articles have said to eat more starchy carbs frequently! Which is gonna impact negatively on my fat loss. I’m also gonna carry around a sugary snack incase this happens again.

I’m currently training hard, eating well and love it. But this is spoiling it and is gonna possibly ruin and hinder my progress. Anyone have any experience with this or had success losing fat eating carbs frequently?

How long after a meal did you test? If say 60-90 minutes or little longer you may be experiencing reactive hypoglycemia.

What kind of training are you doing?

I would recommend fasted state cardio 1-2 times per week to help you shift the fat, but forever training with very little carbs(especially things like football training) is just crazy IMO.

tweet

@jehovasfitness - it was 3 hours after my workout i tested, i started sweating profusely and felt shaky. My mate said they were symptons of going ‘hypo’ but everytime im tested by the doc i get good results

@theBird - hey mate, how you doing? im not training with very little carbs all the time, on training days i’ll have them before a heavy workout (like legs) and moderately after upper body and cardio workouts. When i get the chance im fitting in fasted cardio and have low carbs after that, see the article “carb cycling for the non counter” its pretty much this. Im desperately trying to shift the fat even though im not in a team. I get to play football very little but a game crops up every now and then and i want to always be ready (or as much as i can be) but im doing my weights aswell, very similar to yourself. My next game is mid September

my shifts make it very difficult to do fasted cardio on separate days. Sometimes i only get 2 days to weight train, so i fit cardio in on them days too, but i need some carbs before training and it appears i may need more than im currently having after training

You might try placing your carbs intake in the pre/during training portion of your day. See how that works.

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
I’m also gonna carry around a sugary snack incase this happens again. [/quote]

Also, don’t do this. You want to end these blood sugar swings/rollercoasters that you’re currently experiencing, not prolong them.

what kind of testing has the doc done? most often it’s just a fasting. You may want to ask for an oral glucocose tolerance test OGTT if you suspect hypoglycemia problems

@chillain - im trying to lose fat at the moment so if i have my carbs pre/during im not going to be burning any fat am i? also, i was gonna carry around a sugary snack incase this happens again so i can eat it quickly so level me out. If i dont have one what am i gonna do?

@jehohasfitness - he has done just normal fasting blood test. I have had loads of these and the result is the same everytime. Im gonna have to ask about the OGTT test

Hi adrenalinx. I have hypoglycemia so I might be able to help you out or steer you in the right direction. A couple of things that I was wondering:

  1. What were the results of your fasted test?
  2. What types of workouts are you doing, how long are they and how would you describe your intensity level?

A few things that I can suggest now would be:

  1. Drop the milk in your shakes and opt for water or heavy cream. Better yet, save shakes for a treat and have solid foods more.
  2. Do not eat lots of starchy carbs. Carbs are part of your problem.
  3. Keep your carbs lower but do eat carbs right before your workouts. This right here has made a huge difference in keeping my blood sugar from plummeting after workouts.
  4. No to sugary snacks. That will make the problem worse. Carry an orange juice with you all the time, drink that in case of emergency. As soon as you can, like within about 20-30 minutes, find real food to eat. Stay away from junk food at all costs.
  5. Personally, I would never suggest fasted cardio to a hypoglycemic. Our levels are generally low in the morning and I would opt for breakfast and then maybe steady state or HIIT style cardio.

If your goal is fat loss, you will really have to be conscious of your symptoms and how you react to certain foods and the time between meals. Hypoglycemia is difficult because you need to eat to keep your blood sugar from dropping too low and feeling terrible. This can cause you to consume more food than you actually need or are hungry for. It can make fat loss very difficult.

Can I ask exactly what you eat in a day and roughly what times?

Jackie, all my fasted tests i never get the exact results. I call the docs and they say ‘no further action’, they tell me that means everything is ok,this has happened everytime i have been tested.

My workouts are normally intense. As im trying to lose weight i start with a some form of performance related cardio, like timed 1,2 or 3 mile run (as fast as possible) or cycle etc. Then heavy weights in a complex style as im trying to lose weight. And i often but not always finish off with some steady state cardio for 20-30 mins or a short metcon. Very similar to Alpha’s training if you have seen his log.

an average good diet day with a workout would be

0800 - protein shake with water
0820 - water/powerade zero during workout
1015(ish) - milkshake with whey added w/ banana
1100 - fish with rice or sweet potato
1300 - tuna salad
1600 - another shake or handful of peanuts
1900 - yoghurt (greek style,natural) or cottage cheese
2100 - protein shake

this is a typical day (like when i experienced my recent problem with sugar dropping) i do shift work and the reason i couldnt have a proper dinner in teh evening is because i was working between 1330-2100

i do sometimes have more carbs on other days like maybe rice with an evening meal or chicken and veg but this is when im not at work.

couple of questions - why no milk in the shakes? why heavy cream?

Since this has happened and after speaking to my diabetic mate i have been carrying around a bottle of tropicana orange juice just in case.

Now im training tommorow and my main priority is performance and to lose fat. Im training first thing like at about 0830-0900, should i eat carbs before? maybe some oats? or fruit?

either way i gotta lose this fat

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
@chillain - im trying to lose fat at the moment so if i have my carbs pre/during im not going to be burning any fat am i? also, i was gonna carry around a sugary snack incase this happens again so i can eat it quickly so level me out. If i dont have one what am i gonna do?[/quote]

I was only speaking generally, so let’s defer to Jackie_Jacked’s excellent and far more individualized advice above.

It seems like most of your calories are coming from protein. You need more fat.

Part of your problem is that your body is too used to burning glucose (because you eat a low fat diet) but from the looks of it you aren’t really even eating carbohydrate in abundance.

When it comes to energy production you have three strategies: 1) you eat mostly fat and your body uses fat for fuel; 2) you eat mostly carbohydrate and your body burns glucose; 3) You eat low carb and low fat and your body relies on protein (dietary and body tissue) to produce glucose.

The latter two strategies are really one in the same because you have to rely on glucose for energy. This is not optimal because you can only store about 2000 Kcal of energy.

Likely, you are crashing because you aren’t eating enough post workout and your body has to break down protein to make glucose.

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
Jackie, all my fasted tests i never get the exact results. I call the docs and they say ‘no further action’, they tell me that means everything is ok,this has happened everytime i have been tested.

My workouts are normally intense. As im trying to lose weight i start with a some form of performance related cardio, like timed 1,2 or 3 mile run (as fast as possible) or cycle etc. Then heavy weights in a complex style as im trying to lose weight. And i often but not always finish off with some steady state cardio for 20-30 mins or a short metcon. Very similar to Alpha’s training if you have seen his log.

an average good diet day with a workout would be

0800 - protein shake with water
0820 - water/powerade zero during workout
1015(ish) - milkshake with whey added w/ banana
1100 - fish with rice or sweet potato
1300 - tuna salad
1600 - another shake or handful of peanuts
1900 - yoghurt (greek style,natural) or cottage cheese
2100 - protein shake

this is a typical day (like when i experienced my recent problem with sugar dropping) i do shift work and the reason i couldnt have a proper dinner in teh evening is because i was working between 1330-2100

i do sometimes have more carbs on other days like maybe rice with an evening meal or chicken and veg but this is when im not at work.

couple of questions - why no milk in the shakes? why heavy cream?

Since this has happened and after speaking to my diabetic mate i have been carrying around a bottle of tropicana orange juice just in case.

Now im training tommorow and my main priority is performance and to lose fat. Im training first thing like at about 0830-0900, should i eat carbs before? maybe some oats? or fruit?

either way i gotta lose this fat

[/quote]

England sounds similar to Canada in that they feel like they don’t have to tell you your results, only that you are okay. That is outrageous. What I would try is asking your family doctor if the lab forwards your results to him/her and take that route or see if he can find out for you. FWIW, my tests came back “within the normal range” for years.

It sounds like you’ve got a pretty intense schedule and workouts are probably when you can fit them in. If you find your sugar dropping after workouts, I would try doing weights and steady state one day and then maybe the following day doing your timed runs, etc. To do all in one day is a lot and also it’s extending your workout time to possibly too long and you’re crashing. The complex’s will take it out of you too. My own workouts, I have to limit to 1-1.5 hours or I get very sick.

In regards to what you eat, this might be alright for someone who has normal blood sugar but I know that it would never in a million years work for me (too many carbs). You have to find out what works for you though which is why I give loose suggestions but I highly encourage you to keep a food log with times, foods, amounts and how they made you feel within a few hours of eating them. You will see patterns. It’s more assessing your own tolerance.

Are your shakes solely whey protein or a whey/casein mix? I’d go with a casein mix as whey alone will cause a crash for me. So will milk. If you look at heavy cream, no carbs, no sugar. If you workout in the am, I would have a protein with maybe oats in the morning. If you are hypoglycemic, you’re not like everyone else so saving your carbs for post w/o will likely backfire on you. Good job on carrying the orange juice too. Just remember, if you have to use it, make sure you get some food into you right away after or you will really drop.

If there is anything specific you were curious about, ask away. It’s so easy just to throw out information and it can be overwhelming. Believe me, I know how frustrating it is to lose body fat when you’re dealing with blood sugar issues. Things that used to work years ago don’t anymore, it’s a whole new ball game. Previously, I was very lean and it’s a struggle now but not impossible. My overall suggestions would be protein/carb/maybe small amount of fruit pre-w/o, protein and some carbs (if you feel like you need them) post w/o, the rest of the day, keep carbs and fruit a minimum and eat fat+protein: chicken, fish, steak, eggs, yogurt + protein powder, etc. Eat leafy green everything, as much as you want. Use oils. These things will balance your blood sugar. That is what is going to help you lose the fat. If you’re experiencing extremes in blood sugar either way, that will only sabotage your efforts and possibly cause fat gain. I highly encourage you to experiment and go by how it makes you feel and not what you read or others tell you. If someone tells you something that contradicts how it makes you feel, go by how you feel. Change one thing at a time and observe if it made you feel better or worse. If you can learn how to stabilize your sugar, you can lose the weight.

@Jackie - thanks for your help mate, really appreciate it. Bit confused and your right, it is a bit overwhelming. Im a bit confused as to what to do now. Should i add more carbs pre and post workout and then keep carbs to a minimum afterwards? if i crash i’ll have the orange juice as an emergency but if im at home and can do something better what should i do? have a carb meal? or protein and fat??

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS says about having more fat, should i do this otherwise? i feel if i increase my carbs (around workouts) and fat im not gonna lose the fat

i will be separating my workouts now as i agree it is a bit much, but that is purely because of my schedule. Im training for football (soccer) and i’ve always been told to have carbs but i really dont think this has ever help me at all. I still love my weights and want to continue them but i use them for power and strength as apposed to hypertrophy. I feel fairly solid (for a footballer) but desperately need to lose this fat for the football, my holiday in December and my sanity! lol

oh and my shakes are casein/whey mix.

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
@Jackie - thanks for your help mate, really appreciate it. Bit confused and your right, it is a bit overwhelming. Im a bit confused as to what to do now. Should i add more carbs pre and post workout and then keep carbs to a minimum afterwards? if i crash i’ll have the orange juice as an emergency but if im at home and can do something better what should i do? have a carb meal? or protein and fat??

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS says about having more fat, should i do this otherwise? i feel if i increase my carbs (around workouts) and fat im not gonna lose the fat

i will be separating my workouts now as i agree it is a bit much, but that is purely because of my schedule. Im training for football (soccer) and i’ve always been told to have carbs but i really dont think this has ever help me at all. I still love my weights and want to continue them but i use them for power and strength as apposed to hypertrophy. I feel fairly solid (for a footballer) but desperately need to lose this fat for the football, my holiday in December and my sanity! lol

oh and my shakes are casein/whey mix. [/quote]

You need not increase both fat and carbohydrate at the same time - one or the other will suffice.

I prefer a high fat diet because I feel less irritable and I don’t crash.

I feel like I never worry about when my last meal was and if I can workout or go for a bike ride or whatever. I have enough fat to fuel anything I do because my body doesn’t rely on glucose - except under anaerobic exertion (which for me is counted in minutes per week).

You should experiment and see how you feel not only during exertion but also everywhere else too.

Oh yeah, as far as losing fat and eating fat I assure you it is real easy. It’s hard to explain but I don’t ever feel the need to eat in excess. I seem to always just eat the right amount and can still maintain rigorous workouts a few times a week. There is no conscious effort on my part to restrict calories but seemingly I am eating less than before. I am still adding muscle mass, too.

Hey, no problem. I was in your boat not too long ago. It’s really confusing, you’re right about that.

Yes, think of your carbs as fuel. You want to fuel up before you take your car for a ride, right? That’s how you should think of your workouts. Gauge how you feel after, if you feel like you’ve crashed during your workout, have a few more carbs post workout. The rest of the day, I would try to eat as low carb as you can and never eat carbs by themselves - always with a protein source. Also, I would consider the best protein sources to be meat, however, if it’s protein powder in a pinch, that’s fine as long as it’s not making you feel terrible.

The orange juice is as an emergency. If you feel yourself getting dizzy, sweaty, clammy, shaky, nauseous…drink the orange juice but don’t stop there. You need to get some real food into you right after that to prevent another crash. A carb/protein source is best. Fats not so much because they will slow down the effect you’re trying to achieve, fats take longer to digest. If you’re worried about this happening at work, I would try just mentioning to colleagues about your condition and I’m sure they will be more than willing to let you go for a few minutes until you feel better.

You certainly have a lot of training going on. lol Add in your carbs as you feel you need them with training. If you eat them at a smart time, they will not affect you and in fact, will help you. Eat them at the wrong time and you will feel like you’re going to fall on your face.

I’ll give you an idea of an ideal day for me:

2 pieces bacon, 2 eggs, piece of toast, coffee with cream

MAG-10 during workout (that’s in the Biotest store here if you haven’t heard of it before)

1/2 cup oats, 3/4 cup egg whites, brown sugar splenda and a tiny bit of heavy cream

chili, maybe a green salad with vinegar/oil

grilled chicken or steak with veggies or salad

MAG-10 before bed

My days change too so I play by ear but you can see that carbs are around workout window and mostly meats/proteins and fats after that. I try to eat or have a MAG-10 about every 3 hours. It has taken months to figure out what worked though so just keep plugging away at it. It will take you a while too but if you need any help, just ask. I’d be happy to help.

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
@chillain - im trying to lose fat at the moment so if i have my carbs pre/during im not going to be burning any fat am i? also, i was gonna carry around a sugary snack incase this happens again so i can eat it quickly so level me out. If i dont have one what am i gonna do?[/quote]

I was only speaking generally, so let’s defer to Jackie_Jacked’s excellent and far more individualized advice above.

[/quote]

Hey, thanks chillain. :slight_smile:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Hey, no problem. I was in your boat not too long ago. It’s really confusing, you’re right about that.

Yes, think of your carbs as fuel. You want to fuel up before you take your car for a ride, right? That’s how you should think of your workouts. Gauge how you feel after, if you feel like you’ve crashed during your workout, have a few more carbs post workout. The rest of the day, I would try to eat as low carb as you can and never eat carbs by themselves - always with a protein source. Also, I would consider the best protein sources to be meat, however, if it’s protein powder in a pinch, that’s fine as long as it’s not making you feel terrible.

The orange juice is as an emergency. If you feel yourself getting dizzy, sweaty, clammy, shaky, nauseous…drink the orange juice but don’t stop there. You need to get some real food into you right after that to prevent another crash. A carb/protein source is best. Fats not so much because they will slow down the effect you’re trying to achieve, fats take longer to digest. If you’re worried about this happening at work, I would try just mentioning to colleagues about your condition and I’m sure they will be more than willing to let you go for a few minutes until you feel better.

You certainly have a lot of training going on. lol Add in your carbs as you feel you need them with training. If you eat them at a smart time, they will not affect you and in fact, will help you. Eat them at the wrong time and you will feel like you’re going to fall on your face.

I’ll give you an idea of an ideal day for me:

2 pieces bacon, 2 eggs, piece of toast, coffee with cream

MAG-10 during workout (that’s in the Biotest store here if you haven’t heard of it before)

1/2 cup oats, 3/4 cup egg whites, brown sugar splenda and a tiny bit of heavy cream

chili, maybe a green salad with vinegar/oil

grilled chicken or steak with veggies or salad

MAG-10 before bed

My days change too so I play by ear but you can see that carbs are around workout window and mostly meats/proteins and fats after that. I try to eat or have a MAG-10 about every 3 hours. It has taken months to figure out what worked though so just keep plugging away at it. It will take you a while too but if you need any help, just ask. I’d be happy to help. [/quote]

I’m not critiquing your diet as it seems to work for you but I have to ask is there any particular reason you throw out yolks but yet add cream?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Hey, no problem. I was in your boat not too long ago. It’s really confusing, you’re right about that.

Yes, think of your carbs as fuel. You want to fuel up before you take your car for a ride, right? That’s how you should think of your workouts. Gauge how you feel after, if you feel like you’ve crashed during your workout, have a few more carbs post workout. The rest of the day, I would try to eat as low carb as you can and never eat carbs by themselves - always with a protein source. Also, I would consider the best protein sources to be meat, however, if it’s protein powder in a pinch, that’s fine as long as it’s not making you feel terrible.

The orange juice is as an emergency. If you feel yourself getting dizzy, sweaty, clammy, shaky, nauseous…drink the orange juice but don’t stop there. You need to get some real food into you right after that to prevent another crash. A carb/protein source is best. Fats not so much because they will slow down the effect you’re trying to achieve, fats take longer to digest. If you’re worried about this happening at work, I would try just mentioning to colleagues about your condition and I’m sure they will be more than willing to let you go for a few minutes until you feel better.

You certainly have a lot of training going on. lol Add in your carbs as you feel you need them with training. If you eat them at a smart time, they will not affect you and in fact, will help you. Eat them at the wrong time and you will feel like you’re going to fall on your face.

I’ll give you an idea of an ideal day for me:

2 pieces bacon, 2 eggs, piece of toast, coffee with cream

MAG-10 during workout (that’s in the Biotest store here if you haven’t heard of it before)

1/2 cup oats, 3/4 cup egg whites, brown sugar splenda and a tiny bit of heavy cream

chili, maybe a green salad with vinegar/oil

grilled chicken or steak with veggies or salad

MAG-10 before bed

My days change too so I play by ear but you can see that carbs are around workout window and mostly meats/proteins and fats after that. I try to eat or have a MAG-10 about every 3 hours. It has taken months to figure out what worked though so just keep plugging away at it. It will take you a while too but if you need any help, just ask. I’d be happy to help. [/quote]

I’m not critiquing your diet as it seems to work for you but I have to ask is there any particular reason you throw out yolks but yet add cream?[/quote]

That’s alright and I fully expected to be asked why I do that. I eat whole eggs for breakfast (or any other time) and I prefer egg whites with oats as opposed to whole eggs, that’s all. It’s not to cut out the fat. The heavy cream (about 1 tbsp) I add because the oats and whites are hot and it helps cool it down a little faster. Plus, it reminds me of a typical porridge breakfast that I used to eat as a child that used to be just oats, milk and brown sugar. So, no reason, really just preference.

@Jackie - thanks for posting your diet, is it aimed at fat loss? maintenance? i played football (soccer) today and felt like shit afterwards. I sweat alot anyway but i can never cool down. I had my shower, jumped in the car and went home still sweating about 30 mins later. As i felt so bad i only had a packet of chocolate biscuits (small childs pack i picked up last minute) ate them and felt slightly better quite quickly. Suddenly dried out,still warm but better.
Im seeing my doc next week to see what he says. Obviously worried and frustrated as i feel as if my fat loss has stalled again although im keeping the carbs low.