Fat Loss Layers and Deloading

Training
1

I was wondering how people have liked the fat loss layers; what’s your experience been using this setup:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM

I have found that even with this modified strength layer for fat loss, I can only do it for ~ 4 or 5 weeks before I start to burn out. At that point I then take a week or two where I do:

  1. Ramp to a 3RM
  2. 3X8, @90% of 3RM

I just finished 5 weeks of the “full” fat loss layers as above, and two weeks of the stripped down version (ramp to 3RM). I’m getting ready today to start another round. I’m going to try this:

  1. SGHP, full fat loss layers
  2. decline press, full fat loss layers
  3. dead/squat, ramp to a 1RM, 1-2 cluster sets @90%; 70% of 1RM, ramp to a 2RM, 1-2 cluster sets
    @90%
  4. SGHP, ramp to a 3RM, 8X3 @ 90% of 3RM
  5. incline press, ramp to a 3RM, 8X3 @90% of 3RM

In this way I hope to avoid having to “deload” by reducing every training session to the 3RM version. I’m hoping the reduced intensity as the training week progresses will keep me fresh.

Any thoughts, your experiences?

Crowbar

2

It could be that at 52yo, I’m just going to have to use my modified fat loss layers. Also, I haven’t switched to Plazma yet as I’m still using up the last of my Anaconda. maybe the Plazma will help increase recovery?

Crowbar

3

@Crowbar: Plazma is the best thing I have ever used as far as quicker gains, more PRs, better body comp., & not getting sore & I have tried everything.

4

@Crowbar: Seperate SGHP & dead-squat days with pressing days for better recovery, especially if you’re trying to lose fat.

5

I thought about that, but it would mean only 2 days between pressing sessions, and 4 days between SGHP days. Do you think that might be more optimal for recovery, in that the SGHP days are harder to recover from than the pressing days?

Crowbar

6

You could do this if that’s a concern

Bench incline tilt / High pull / REST / Bench decline tilt / Front squat or TBDL / REST / High pull…it’s your call…I think a lot of it comes down to technique & how you use the exercise as far as recovery …just an idea for you. I think SGHP & dead-squat back to back days will affect your recover so you won’t be 100% personally. That recommendation was orginally made by CT months ago. It’s your call though only trying to help

7

I’d recommend doing the Ramp to 3RM and then 8 sets of 3 reps for the dead-squat. I remember when I did the strength layer for trap bar deadlift during a ‘cutting’ phase and I was pretty much dead the next day from CNS burnout, even when I had 3 scoops of PLAZMA on my side. If you feel like you want more leg work then throw in some sled, prowler work or throw in 1 extended set with 80% of the 3RM after your 8 sets of 3 Reps to get a nice pump. I also second sputs recommendation for seperating SGHP days & dead squat days. I find I recover much better if I had some time between them. Hope this helps!

8

Thanks guys for the responses. The funny thing about the dead /squat is that despite using much greater weight in this movement than in any of the others, it doesn’t seem to burn me out. The SGHP and pressing seem much more draining to me, even though the dead/squat is more demanding–if that makes any sense. I attribute this to being much better at deadlifting than pressing–OK, I’ll admit it: I suck at pressing (with a few exceptions), and live to deadlift. So, I’m just nowhere near as effecient a presser as I am a deadlifter, thus pressing is simply more draing to me. This kind of makes me hesitant to put a second pressing session two days after the first (heavier) session.

I can, however, see that doing dead/squats prior to a second SGHP day could potentially negatively impact my SGHP session do to the stress placed on the posterior chain during the dead/squat. Unfortunately, I can’t split my days off (at least not now) , so it looks like I’ll have to experiment a little keeping in mind what you guys have suggested.

This is actually one of the things I love about the layer “system”–it’s not actually a system at all, but rather an endlessly adaptable set of training principles that can be applied to nearly any problem related to training and adapting the human body.

Crowbar

9

try push, pull, legs
ive been doing that. its working fine. itrain 5-6 days at a pop.
so
decl
pulls
legs
incl
pulls
more or less.
and kick up the MAG-10… it helps with. recovery ALOT.
on training days i do 3 total post workout, and at nite i do between 2-6

10

Domcib, thanks. Yeah, I thought about that, but if I’m doing my full (heavy) SGHP session before the dead/squat I’ll probably need two days to recover for the dead/squat (SGHP really hit my forearms and tax my grip, even with straps). So, right now I’m going to go with the modified fat loss layers (the second template), reasoning that the second pull and press sessions will be less taxing. Actually, I think I’ll alternate heavy and light sessions.

I’ve been using 6 pulses/day of MAG-10, Indigo, FINiBAR, and Anaconda until I finish the last couple of servings–then Plazma.

Overall, I have to say I haven’t had this kind of motivation to train in a while, and my results have been very good. I’m taking my time and losing body fat slowly as I maintain–and increase–strength. I’ve also managed to add some muscle. I’m coming up on 8 weeks, and at this point I’ll be adding in a conditioning day of ~15-20 min. and Carbolin 19. It’ll be interesting to see what the Carbolin 19 does to the mix–it’s been quit a while since I last used it–and never with the high-tech peri nutrition we now have available.

Crowbar

11

keep us posted on your progress. it would be interesting to hear.
all the best

12

seems like you questions have be answered, but going back to your OP, this is what i’m doing at the minute;

first and foremost, my goal is body re-composition -leaning towards fat loss though!

My Split has changed recently due to push presses giving my shoulder a hard time, but my current split is as follows;

Neutral Grip Pressing (HEAVY)
Snatch Grip Chinese Pulls (HEAVY)
OFF
Incline Press (SPEED)
Snatch Grip High Pulls (SPEED)
Clean Grip Muscle Snatch (COMPLEXES)
OFF

‘Heavy’ days follow the standard approach;

ramp to 1rm
3-4 sets of clusters/straight sets @90%
2-3 sets of HDL -normally hard 5’s

i eat the most calories on these 2 days for recovery and strength/size focus.

‘Speed’ days work with my fat loss goal/diet as they are easy to recover from and less demanding;

ramp to 2rm
2-3 sets of clusters/straight sets @90%
8 sets of 3 reps, ‘speed series’ @70-80% with 30 seconds rest

these days are lower calories, but more calories than days off.

lastly, i take advantage of the full-body mechanics of the clean grip muscle snatch and incorporate complexes;

ramp to 2rm
2-3 sets of clusters/straight sets @90%
2 sets of ‘pull’ focused complexes, 2-3 reps
2 sets of ‘press’ focused complexes, 3-4 reps

so as my workout intensity changes, so does my calorie intake.

on the whole it probably averages out as just below maintenance calories, but i’m enjoying fat loss, with slight size increases specifically in the deltoids and upper back, and the chest to a lesser extent

13

[quote]crowbar46 wrote:
I was wondering how people have liked the fat loss layers; what’s your experience been using this setup:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM

I have found that even with this modified strength layer for fat loss, I can only do it for ~ 4 or 5 weeks before I start to burn out. At that point I then take a week or two where I do:

  1. Ramp to a 3RM
  2. 3X8, @90% of 3RM

I just finished 5 weeks of the “full” fat loss layers as above, and two weeks of the stripped down version (ramp to 3RM). I’m getting ready today to start another round. I’m going to try this:

  1. SGHP, full fat loss layers
  2. decline press, full fat loss layers
  3. dead/squat, ramp to a 1RM, 1-2 cluster sets @90%; 70% of 1RM, ramp to a 2RM, 1-2 cluster sets
    @90%
  4. SGHP, ramp to a 3RM, 8X3 @ 90% of 3RM
  5. incline press, ramp to a 3RM, 8X3 @90% of 3RM

In this way I hope to avoid having to “deload” by reducing every training session to the 3RM version. I’m hoping the reduced intensity as the training week progresses will keep me fresh.

Any thoughts, your experiences?

Crowbar

[/quote]
i’m 55, not really a perfect health specimen. honestly, i had to accept the fact that i am not 30 anymore. so, i adjusted a couple things. 1. on the ramp to max… i have learned to not shoot for a new pr every session. 2. in my percentage calculations i round down as opposed to rounding up. 3. if i need a little longer rest, i take it. 4. i have no one to impress(except maybe my wife. she likes the results from my training:)) I compete only with myself. my days of championship competitions are behind me.

14

Domcib, yeah I think those are all very good observations and I try to abide by every one of them. I just find it hard to back off and admit I’m not a kid anymore. I know I push myself at times beyond what I realistically should; I sometimes feel guilty if I feel like I “should” have pushed myself more, but didn’t.

However, I’m slowly getting the picture. I think I’m going to stop a little short of where I have on the ramps, making sure that I really dominate/accelerate the weight. Same thing on the clusters. I think that will go a long ways toward solving my issues.

Crowbar

15

Iboro21, thanks. Yeah, I think the take home here–especially considering I’m hypo-caloric–is that you have to moderate as well as modulate your intensity levels throughout the training week, as well as long term. In other words I need to periodize my training in some way.

Crowbar

16

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