Failed Islamic States of Tomorrow

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

…European countries no longer suffer from religious indoctrination, but someone born and raised in a predominantly islamic nation will have a difficult task freeing himself from his religious baggage. I don’t think you can take the Islam out of someone like that and have much left…

[quote]and that the religion itself is geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy…

No. The religion itself is not “geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy”. That is preposterous. The Quran is explicit in that regard. Not even Ben Laden would ever argue otherwise.[/quote]

…i can’t think of a democratic Islamic nation, can you?

122

[quote]Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
and is regularly blowing up whole wedding parties.

So now you want us to believe the US is deliberately targeting weddings. Without giving us any reason why the US would do such a dastardly thing.
[/quote]

What is ironic is the terrorists who attacked India last month attacked a wedding party. They did this up close and personal and had no qualms about doing it, nor did others who attacked schools in Afghanistan, Beslan or Israel.

And they all plotted to do these things in advance and on purpose.

They have no problem attacking weddings or killing children if it suits their purpose.

123

[quote]ephrem wrote:No. The religion itself is not “geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy”. That is preposterous. The Quran is explicit in that regard. Not even Ben Laden would ever argue otherwise.

…i can’t think of a democratic Islamic nation, can you?

[/quote]

No, and isn’t Bin Laden the same guy who wants to re-establish the Caliphate with himself as the Caliph?

124

[quote]ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote: But maybe, just maybe, you fail to realize that there’s not much in common in terms of “culture and heritage” between an Arab, a Berber, a Kurd, a Turk or a Pashtun once you take Islam out of the picture.

…European countries no longer suffer from religious indoctrination, but someone born and raised in a predominantly islamic nation will have a difficult task freeing himself from his religious baggage. I don’t think you can take the Islam out of someone like that and have much left…[/quote]

I see.

So all the secularists in Majority-Muslim Countries must be figments of my imagination.

And go tell a Berber or a Kurd that he/she has no “culture and heritage” besides Islam. Beware that you might get spit on your face.

[quote]and that the religion itself is geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy…

No. The religion itself is not “geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy”. That is preposterous. The Quran is explicit in that regard. Not even Ben Laden would ever argue otherwise.

…i can’t think of a democratic Islamic nation, can you? [/quote]

I can’t think of a developed black country. Must be all that melanin!

126

[quote]lixy wrote:I see.

So all the secularists in Majority-Muslim Countries must be figments of my imagination.

And go tell a Berber or a Kurd that he/she has no “culture and heritage” besides Islam. Beware that you might get spit on your face.[/quote]

…i’m sorry if i offended you, but would those secularists be a minority by any chance? Islam is so ingrained in the muslims psyche that they’ve become inseperable. Ofcourse there are exceptions to the rule, but they would be exceptions to the rule…

[quote]…i can’t think of a democratic Islamic nation, can you?

I can’t think of a developed black country. Must be all that melanin![/quote]

…who’s racist now? But really, there is no democratic nation under islamic rule, is there? Aren’t most, if not all, Muslim nations totalitarian? Some may appear free, but that’s mostly cosmetic, wouldn’t you agree?

127

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…i’m sorry if i offended you, [/quote]

I wasn’t offended. I did shake my head in disbelief though.

Not a chance! Go ask around any Majority-Muslim Country if they want alcohol banned. You’d get maybe 15-20%, tops.

Or easier, check out the number of women in favour of applying Islamic succession laws. 90% would tell you that they see no reason why their male siblings should get twice what they get. Does that sound like minority to you? And this is something that’s not up to interpretation. It’s explicit.

I can’t make any sense out of this statement.

No. Not expections.

Any Berber or Kurd, would challenge the idea that they have no “culture or heritage” and that they’re an empty shell once you take Islam out of the picture.

[quote]…i can’t think of a democratic Islamic nation, can you?

I can’t think of a developed black country. Must be all that melanin!

…who’s racist now? [/quote]

That was reductio ad absurdum. Don’t take it literally.

What you have engaged in, is a logical fallacy so blatant that it really didn’t deserve any reply. If you’re interested, it’s a cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Nations under anything’s rule but The People’s are not democratic.

One would think this is obvious.

There’s no way to have this conversation unless you start making the distinction between “Muslim nations” and “Majority-Muslim countries”.

I have a plane to catch now. Back in a week.

128

[quote]Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Well Ephrem I do not like the idea of having to kill millions of people either. But there is a hardcore of militants that probably numbers into the millions.

They are ready to kill for what they believe in and some of them have. They are also ready to die for what they believe in. We can’t be squeamish about what needs to be done and we have to accept it.

This is absolute insanity. Are you honestly saying we “can’t be squeamish” about “killing (hundreds of) millions”???

If it is a matter of kill or be killed or slavery then what choice have the given us?

Nonsense.

They have given “YOU” the slightly increased chance of dying.

Bullshit. The Muslims don’t have the right to increase anyone’s chances of dying to any degree.

Not comparable with HFC-syrup, trans fats or even bowling, more like the chance of being killed by lightning while polka dancing.

You are delusional and completely in denial. The Jihadists would love to get ahold of WMD and kill millions. But that’s not the only threat.

If India, Pakistan or Israel, Iran have a nuclear exchange it will be an ecological disaster for the entire planet. The amount of radioactive debris that would be thrown up into the atmosphere from a thermonuclear weapon being detonated over a city the size of Mumbai, Islamabad, Tehran, Delhi, would be much worse than the tests in the desert in the fifties.

An India Pakistan nuclear war has the potential to trigger a nuclear winter. I suspect that any survivors of a nuclear winter would not want to ever have a repeat.

That gives you the right to fart in their general direction and not to commit mass murder.

Or, if that is really your guiding principle, start with the death penalty for drunk driving first.

You are completely out of touch with reality. I have no say in the matter. Threatening people with mass murder like the Islamists are doing is asking for a retaliation. Especially when it is a country like Iran threatening the Jews in Israel who have already been down that road. Unlike the last time they have the ability to do something about it.

You need to wake up and realize there are things happening in this world that the US and to a much lesser extent Europe have no control over.

First of all, you, and all the people around you make other peoples lifes a bit riskier every day.

No homeboy people it’s like you who are a huge problem. For this sake of argument I will assume that like a lot of people you mean well and have good intentions.

The huge problem with people like you is because you consider yourself to be a “good person” who has “good intentions” you don’t waste your time or tax your mental capacity evaluating how you are going about pursuing your “good intentions”. Your thought process is “why should I bother to think, I have good intentions”, “there are other good people like me who think what we are doing is correct so it must be right” which is the herd mentality.

Then you defend your lack of thinking by assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is a “bad person” who has “bad intentions”. Then you wheel out your particular herds slogans and prepackaged gripes to defend your lack of thinking.

But then you came up with this gem.

You probably use a car, electricity, or might even have a swimming pool!

To think that other people have no “right” to make life riskier for you means the end of civilization.

WOW! So you believe that if I use modern conveniences my life or my freedom should be put in jeopardy. Now you are spouting the Radical ideology of a European Anarchist with a heavy dose of Green.

The only difference is that they do not really offer anything in return, instead of slight amusement, but that hardly changes that you will most definitely not be killed by a terrorist.

I use electricity at work so I can earn a living to clothe, house and feed myself. Plus I need a car to get there. You are definitely a Green, probably an extremist, that explains a lot.

I have used the London mass transit system of the tube and buses that was attacked on 7/7, I have been in the World trade center, I have flown over Lockerbie Scotland aboard Pan Am Flt 103. I know for a fact that I am only here today because of good luck and you are “most definitely” full of shit!

Even if the dreaded WMD attack happened, with 10 times as many casualities as 9-11, so what? 30000 is nothing compared to the 300 million Americans.

Thank you for sharing your world view with us thoroughly debunking my first assumption. You are not motivated by good intentions. You are an extremist. That is the real motivation behind your complaints about American policy.

Finally you have bared your ass for all to see.

What is really interesting though is that you do not see the other side:

Some crazy Arab has killed a few Americans and a few other crazy Arabs are talking trash.

You are only calling them crazy in order to mislead people about your beliefs. You see nothing wrong with what they are doing, that is why you express such extreme double standards.

America however, has, quite officially, lead an embargo that killed 500000 children

I assume you are referring to the U.N. sanctions against Iraq.

So now you want us to believe that the reason why you spew such venom at America is you do it for the children. Where have we heard that before.

You do not give a fuck about “the children”. The ONLY reason why you bother to mention them now is because they are a good way to inject emotion into the debate which reduces peoples ability to reason.

That is the kind of rhetorical tactic Herman Goering would use.

You Anarchists didn’t care to complain or engage in marches and mass protests against Saddam, despite the fact that he was the one starving “the children”. To trot them out now and blame it on America is not only rank hypocrisy it is a lie.

and God only knows how many sick and elderly

Ditto

and is regularly blowing up whole wedding parties.

So now you want us to believe the US is deliberately targeting weddings. Without giving us any reason why the US would do such a dastardly thing.

Not by cowardly suicide bombers but by courageous bomber pilots on speed and American pundits are calling for an attack on Iran.

So, if someone needs some preventive killing, why them and not you?

You are just spewing the Anarchist propaganda today. [/quote]

Interesting.

129

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Sloth wrote:

Could you shut up with the racist stuff? Seriously. Folks like you have overused that charge to the point that white folk like me just roll our eyes. He’s a racist for being able to observe the real world over there, and form judgements? I get the impression “racist” is a very familiar word, for you.

When racist Wright was in the news, Obama’s black liberation pastor, you couldn’t help but play defense. “Obama shouldn’t have left the church, his community!” Or, some such crap. Now you want to play racist patrol? A guy who isn’t suppossed to form judgements about people, anyways.

Oh my! Talk about hitting the nail on the head! [/quote]

Not really. Now it’s just racism that is being denied. Racism exists everywhere, not just in white people. It is rather telling that you’d bring up your race though.

130

…that people oppose certain laws and regulations does not mean the government is willing to append those laws in favor of less strict legislation. The fact that religion and state are intertwined in Islam doesn’t make it easier…

[quote]Islam is so ingrained in the muslims psyche that they’ve become inseperable.

I can’t make any sense out of this statement.[/quote]

…take many americans for example. They are unable to look at themselves, and their actions, with and objective eye. They rely heavily on certain ideologies, e.i. the american way of life/the american dream, for the all important sense of identity. The same applies to many muslims: they have to rely on their religion for their sense of identity and purpose. All that conflicts with that sense, and therefore their religion, will be attacked with vigor for it attacks at their core of being who they are…

[quote]But really, there is no democratic nation under islamic rule, is there?

Nations under anything’s rule but The People’s are not democratic.

One would think this is obvious.[/quote]

…combine a restrictive religion with government and you have a totalitarian regime…

…for the sake of this argument: what’s the difference?

…merry christmas!

131

[quote]ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:I see.

So all the secularists in Majority-Muslim Countries must be figments of my imagination.

And go tell a Berber or a Kurd that he/she has no “culture and heritage” besides Islam. Beware that you might get spit on your face.

…i’m sorry if i offended you, but would those secularists be a minority by any chance? Islam is so ingrained in the muslims psyche that they’ve become inseperable. Ofcourse there are exceptions to the rule, but they would be exceptions to the rule… [/quote]

Ephrem don’t be concerned about offending Lixy. He is here to pursue an agenda and doesn’t give a damn about any of us Kuffar’s.

A key aspect of Lixy’s agenda here is to deliberately drag any of our conversations regarding Islam in circles so that us Kuffars cannot come to a concensus view amongst ourselves. That is why he is constantly playing dumb to aspects of the Islamic world that are well known. He has no intellectual honesty.

[quote]
…i can’t think of a democratic Islamic nation, can you? [/quote]

The name Islam means submission. The Islamic concept of god is a divine dictator, whose dictates all must submit to without challenge. Dictatorship is deeply ingrained. [quote]

I can’t think of a developed black country. Must be all that melanin! [/quote]

This has to be most arrogant and appalling statement Lixy has ever come out with. The Arab/muslim invasion of Africa was devastating to the civilizations of Africa. Consider the case of Ethiopia before and after Islam.

"Ethiopia is one of the oldest continuous civilizations in the world. Most of us identify Ethiopia with Emperor Hailie Selassie or the Queen of Sheba (Saba). The land of Sheba was referred to as Saba by the Ethiopians. The actual name of the Queen of Sheba was Queen Makeda. The time span between the reigns of Queen Makeda and Emperor Hailie Selassie is approximately 3000 years.

Most of the world is familiar with this period of history wherein Ethiopians ruled a great civilization. Most people are unaware of the existence of at least 97 other sovereign rulers who reigned prior to Queen Makeda. Once we include the rule of these 97 sovereigns, Ethiopian civilization can be traced back to 3000 BC."

“In addition to Ethiopia being one of the oldest civilizations in the world, Ethiopia is also one of the oldest Christian nations in the world.”

The Islamic invasion of Africa caused the decline of the civilizations there and prevented Africa from developing. Just like the Islamic takeover of the Eastern Roman empire of Byzantia caused the dark ages in Europe and the Islamic invasion of India impoverished India.

The ultimate rebuttal of Lixy arrogant remark is the United States. The East coast of America was dense forest and swamps when Jamestown was settled. It took large numbers of Black slaves bought from Muslim slave traders in Africa to clear the land, drain the swamps and set up agriculture. It was Blacks who did more to develop America than anyone else.

When the Declaration of Independence was signed half of the people in America were Black, making Blacks the largest single ethnic group.

Lixy does not have the honesty to admit to any of that. He will come back with some prepackaged that is is all the fault of America.

132

This is a cracking commentary on islam in the UK - we are bringing this upon ourselves…

134

[quote]pookie wrote:
Wow, I’m really amazed at all the positive aspects Islam has for the World. Who knew?
[/quote]

Please guys, one at at time…

135

[quote]JamFly wrote:
This is a cracking commentary on islam in the UK - we are bringing this upon ourselves…

Indulgence of Islam is harming society [/quote]

Could the Home government be letting all these people in, as an excuse to increase domestic powers, such as surveillance? Why let people in who are simply and completely at odds with the British culture?

136

Thanks for bumping this. I meant to update it.

It appears that the Taliban is beheading and burning (just like Muhammad!) its way through the Swat valley:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024134.php

Pakistan to fail in 5,4,3,2,1…

Gee, I wonder how hard it would be for the Taliban to get one of Pakistan’s nukes on a container bound for some Western country?

137

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

Well, Muhammad was, after all, an Arab. As the prototypical jihadist, ultimately he is responsible for the kernel of jihadism everywhere. I thought that the fact that oil-monied ARabs pay to spread jihad everywhere was no surprise, even for you. Perhaps your head is just stuck too far below the sand to absorb any facts in that regard. You’d certainly benefit from beginning to study(!) the Qur’an and Hadith, as well as representative juridical writings from each of the 4 Schools on such texts. I suspect hell will freeze over before you attempt to know what you’re talking about.
[/quote]

So you admit you were being a racist twat when you said, [quote]“Bush is doing something right if he’s pissing off Arabs”.[/quote] But you think it’s okay to be racist against Arabs because of the reasons listed above. Nice. Not only that but…

…you also don’t realize that Malaysians are different than North Africans who are different than Pakistanis…to you these types are all the same and you actually want me to explain these differences and their effects for you? Nice. And not only are they the same, but…

[quote]

Again you take the Islamic world and create some sort of monolithic conceptualization of “evil”; ignoring any positives and focusing on all negatives.

Yeah, I just maintain that there are hardly any positives, which is why lixy lives in Sweden and Muslims (and especially non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries, such as Copts, Jews, Darfureans and Chaldeans) are moving by the boatload into non-Muslim countries, especially to the United States and Europe. When the flow of immigration reverses, perhaps I’ll re-examine. These “positives” you vaguely refer to are probably a figment of your imagination or don’t play out in reality. It would be unsurprising to me if you can’t actually think of any. [/quote]

…they’re all bad too. You’re definitely making your case well! Why did I ever think you were a bigoted, racist twat?

138

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Is this what you mean? That’s not a suggestion to ethnically cleanse, if this is what you’re talking about.[/quote]

Nope, it’s not what I was talking about…nor was I saying what you think… re-read please.

Also, it might be nice if you said something against those who are calling for mass killings…but why would you do that when someone said “racist”???

…oh, and why didn’t you complain about the use of racism when this racist twat was claiming Michelle Obama “hated whites” and that Barak “was a racist” …It seems like a strange double standard.

139

Yeah, uh, I get that they’re different ethnic groups. Not too difficult a concept. However I was hoping you’d explain the differences in ideology as they relate to non-Muslims, especially non-Muslim minorities in their own countries. I won’t hold my breath.

Calling me a racist has no effect on me. If you want, you can start an entire thread called “PRCalDude’s a Racist!1!!!1” if you feel like it. You can scream it until you’re blue in the face if it makes you feel better. The fact that you keep using the term means that you having nothing to say by way of coherent rebuttal, but this is what I’ve come to expect of you G_L. Oh well.

140

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth wrote:

I’m just confused where the ethnic cleansing deal came from.

It comes from a cheap rhetorical trick to divert from the argument with an irrelevant slander.

[/quote]

Funny, I thought conceptualizing multiple threats as one monolithic one was relevant…silly me.

But let me know what you think about this statement:

[i]
Don’t worry, thunderbolt23. The Jews of Israel and America will soon poke us Muslims enough that we will respond. Since we’re the ones with all the brainpower on our sides, perhaps places like Israel will go from “most populous” to “least populous” in a relatively short period of time. No doubt you’ll use some nuke on Pakistan or Iran or the Syria, which will cause us Muslims to respond in kind.

I’ve noticed that the American CIA are also active in newly ascendent China. I’m not the brightest man, but it seems to me that it’s unwise for you all to be aggravating the ChiComs as well as the Pakistanis, Iranians, Middle Easterners, etc. Political correctness hasn’t had an opportunity to work its way into the psyches of the Chinese political class, if you know what I mean.

Perhaps, instead of constantly raging about what you perceive everyone else is doing to the poor Jews, you Christians could introspect and start making something of the wreck that is your civilization. Perhaps not though, right?