Failed Islamic States of Tomorrow

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
…you also don’t realize that Malaysians are different than North Africans who are different than Pakistanis…to you these types are all the same and you actually want me to explain these differences and their effects for you? Nice. And not only are they the same, but…

Yeah, uh, I get that they’re different ethnic groups. Not too difficult a concept. However I was hoping you’d explain the differences in ideology as they relate to non-Muslims, especially non-Muslim minorities in their own countries. I won’t hold my breath.

…they’re all bad too. You’re definitely making your case well! Why did I ever think you were a bigoted, racist twat?

Calling me a racist has no effect on me. If you want, you can start an entire thread called “PRCalDude’s a Racist!1!!!1” if you feel like it. You can scream it until you’re blue in the face if it makes you feel better. The fact that you keep using the term means that you having nothing to say by way of coherent rebuttal, but this is what I’ve come to expect of you G_L. Oh well. [/quote]

Obviously calling you a racist doesn’t affect you. I can only assume you’ve realized yourself a racist long ago and, apparently, you take great pride in it.

“coherent rebuttal” to the argument that “they’re all the same”? Is that what you’re looking for? Listen mate, I know to you this is just one big threat, but thankfully those here who actually deal with defense aren’t as dense as you are.

Why don’t you pull out some more quotes from the Qur’an to “prove” how similar Malaysians are to Syrians? You seem to think yourself educated when you do so. Or maybe you can “prove it” by showing that people from the developing world are moving to the developed world again, that was a good one!

142

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
…you also don’t realize that Malaysians are different than North Africans who are different than Pakistanis…to you these types are all the same and you actually want me to explain these differences and their effects for you? Nice. And not only are they the same, but…

Yeah, uh, I get that they’re different ethnic groups. Not too difficult a concept. However I was hoping you’d explain the differences in ideology as they relate to non-Muslims, especially non-Muslim minorities in their own countries. I won’t hold my breath.

…they’re all bad too. You’re definitely making your case well! Why did I ever think you were a bigoted, racist twat?

Calling me a racist has no effect on me. If you want, you can start an entire thread called “PRCalDude’s a Racist!1!!!1” if you feel like it. You can scream it until you’re blue in the face if it makes you feel better. The fact that you keep using the term means that you having nothing to say by way of coherent rebuttal, but this is what I’ve come to expect of you G_L. Oh well.

Obviously calling you a racist doesn’t affect you. I can only assume you’ve realized yourself a racist long ago and, apparently, you take great pride in it.

“coherent rebuttal” to the argument that “they’re all the same”? Is that what you’re looking for? Listen mate, I know to you this is just one big threat, but thankfully those here who actually deal with defense aren’t as dense as you are.

Why don’t you pull out some more quotes from the Qur’an to “prove” how similar Malaysians are to Syrians? You seem to think yourself educated when you do so. Or maybe you can “prove it” by showing that people from the developing world are moving to the developed world again, that was a good one![/quote]

Your repeated “argument” of “racist!” is a logical fallacy. I will attempt to demonstrate it for those reading this thread who haven’t completely lobotomized themselves with PC groupthink as you have.

Let’s say that I’m the next incarnation of A. Hitler and I go outside, look at the sky, and say, “It’s blue!” Does that make me wrong? After all, the statement was made by a racist. What if I stated some other fact, like that the earth revolves around the sun. Is that now untrue because the statement was made by a racist?

Let’s now say, as I have, that, “Muslims believe X according to and do Y according to X.” Is the statement now untrue because I’m a racist? Of course not. It’s a logical fallacy to say that a statement is true or false based on who’s making it. If a person is a known liar, then you would obviously want to look up the facts yourself to see whether or not they’re true, but you haven’t even attempted that. No, you’ve screamed, “Racist!” at everything I’ve said without attempting to verify what I’ve said for yourself or present counter-facts that weaken my original case. Some people may buy your argument. Some may want to chip in for a drool pan and a mouth diaper for your verbal diarrhea.

So, in summary, the question is not whether PRCalDude is a “Racist!” but whether PRCalDude is speaking the truth. If I’m such a benighted racist - blinded by my own bigotry, arrogance, and sense of racial supremacism - one would think it would be rather trivial to refute my arguments.

143

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth wrote:

I’m just confused where the ethnic cleansing deal came from.

It comes from a cheap rhetorical trick to divert from the argument with an irrelevant slander.

Funny, I thought conceptualizing multiple threats as one monolithic one was relevant…silly me.

But let me know what you think about this statement:

[i]
Don’t worry, thunderbolt23. The Jews of Israel and America will soon poke us Muslims enough that we will respond. Since we’re the ones with all the brainpower on our sides, perhaps places like Israel will go from “most populous” to “least populous” in a relatively short period of time. No doubt you’ll use some nuke on Pakistan or Iran or the Syria, which will cause us Muslims to respond in kind.

I’ve noticed that the American CIA are also active in newly ascendent China. I’m not the brightest man, but it seems to me that it’s unwise for you all to be aggravating the ChiComs as well as the Pakistanis, Iranians, Middle Easterners, etc. Political correctness hasn’t had an opportunity to work its way into the psyches of the Chinese political class, if you know what I mean.

Perhaps, instead of constantly raging about what you perceive everyone else is doing to the poor Jews, you Christians could introspect and start making something of the wreck that is your civilization. Perhaps not though, right? [/quote]

So, basically ignore reality and pretend we’re on Bizzaro world? I mean it’s clever to switch the roles and the actors around, but that just isn’t the way it is.

144

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
But let me know what you think about this statement:

[i]
Don’t worry, thunderbolt23. The Jews of Israel and America will soon poke us Muslims enough that we will respond. Since we’re the ones with all the brainpower on our sides, perhaps places like Israel will go from “most populous” to “least populous” in a relatively short period of time. No doubt you’ll use some nuke on Pakistan or Iran or the Syria, which will cause us Muslims to respond in kind.

I’ve noticed that the American CIA are also active in newly ascendent China. I’m not the brightest man, but it seems to me that it’s unwise for you all to be aggravating the ChiComs as well as the Pakistanis, Iranians, Middle Easterners, etc. Political correctness hasn’t had an opportunity to work its way into the psyches of the Chinese political class, if you know what I mean.

Perhaps, instead of constantly raging about what you perceive everyone else is doing to the poor Jews, you Christians could introspect and start making something of the wreck that is your civilization. Perhaps not though, right? [/quote]

Why don’t you tell us who wrote it?

145

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So, basically ignore reality and pretend we’re on Bizzaro world? I mean it’s clever to switch the roles and the actors around, but that just isn’t the way it is. [/quote]

Not Bizarro world, but someone’s wishful thinking.

146

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Thanks for bumping this. I meant to update it.[/quote]

No problem. I’m still eagerly awaiting that list of positives traits Islam brings to the world. Must be a long list, if it’s taking so long to compile.

147

the old standard: algebra.

148

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
the old standard: algebra.[/quote]

That’s actually the only one - an important one, no doubt - but the cons of Islamdom outweigh its pros if you’re on the infidel side of things.

149

yeah, but it’s also centuries old…and the only pro they ever seem to come up with.

oh yeah, that and the fact that they were in a period of enlightenment while Europe was in the dark ages. Yet, before Rome fell, the opposite could easily be said for Arab culture.

150

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
the old standard: algebra.[/quote]

The origins of algebra predate Islam by many hundred years.

Even if we were to generously grant the claim; it is the work of one muslim mathematician; the fact that he was a mathematician lead to algebra; not the fact that he was a muslim.

151

[quote]pookie wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
the old standard: algebra.

The origins of algebra predate Islam by many hundred years.

Even if we were to generously grant the claim; it is the work of one muslim mathematician; the fact that he was a mathematician lead to algebra; not the fact that he was a muslim.
[/quote]

you’re forgetting about falafels…let’s not forget them.

152

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
…you also don’t realize that Malaysians are different than North Africans who are different than Pakistanis…to you these types are all the same and you actually want me to explain these differences and their effects for you? Nice. And not only are they the same, but…

Yeah, uh, I get that they’re different ethnic groups. Not too difficult a concept. However I was hoping you’d explain the differences in ideology as they relate to non-Muslims, especially non-Muslim minorities in their own countries. I won’t hold my breath.

…they’re all bad too. You’re definitely making your case well! Why did I ever think you were a bigoted, racist twat?

Calling me a racist has no effect on me. If you want, you can start an entire thread called “PRCalDude’s a Racist!1!!!1” if you feel like it. You can scream it until you’re blue in the face if it makes you feel better. The fact that you keep using the term means that you having nothing to say by way of coherent rebuttal, but this is what I’ve come to expect of you G_L. Oh well.

Obviously calling you a racist doesn’t affect you. I can only assume you’ve realized yourself a racist long ago and, apparently, you take great pride in it.

“coherent rebuttal” to the argument that “they’re all the same”? Is that what you’re looking for? Listen mate, I know to you this is just one big threat, but thankfully those here who actually deal with defense aren’t as dense as you are.

Why don’t you pull out some more quotes from the Qur’an to “prove” how similar Malaysians are to Syrians? You seem to think yourself educated when you do so. Or maybe you can “prove it” by showing that people from the developing world are moving to the developed world again, that was a good one!

Your repeated “argument” of “racist!” is a logical fallacy. I will attempt to demonstrate it for those reading this thread who haven’t completely lobotomized themselves with PC groupthink as you have.

Let’s say that I’m the next incarnation of A. Hitler and I go outside, look at the sky, and say, “It’s blue!” Does that make me wrong? After all, the statement was made by a racist. What if I stated some other fact, like that the earth revolves around the sun. Is that now untrue because the statement was made by a racist?

Let’s now say, as I have, that, “Muslims believe X according to and do Y according to X.” Is the statement now untrue because I’m a racist? Of course not. It’s a logical fallacy to say that a statement is true or false based on who’s making it. If a person is a known liar, then you would obviously want to look up the facts yourself to see whether or not they’re true, but you haven’t even attempted that. No, you’ve screamed, “Racist!” at everything I’ve said without attempting to verify what I’ve said for yourself or present counter-facts that weaken my original case. Some people may buy your argument. Some may want to chip in for a drool pan and a mouth diaper for your verbal diarrhea.

So, in summary, the question is not whether PRCalDude is a “Racist!” but whether PRCalDude is speaking the truth. If I’m such a benighted racist - blinded by my own bigotry, arrogance, and sense of racial supremacism - one would think it would be rather trivial to refute my arguments.
[/quote]

Well, at least you admit your biases now, albeit yet in a convoluted way.

Once again, big thinker, I’m arguing that your conceptualization of Islamic peoples as a monolithic entity is absurd (and most probably based upon your bigotry, although motive is hard to tell). Further, it detracts from the actual, multiple, threats that America faces. Your continued attempts to call Muslims on this board “terrorists” is a further distraction (as well as evidence of your biased thinking).

It’s not that you should be discounted solely because you’re a racist twat, it’s also because your “arguments” are laughable at best. “They’re all the same” was, I hope, put to a close when Nixon went to China.

153

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth wrote:

I’m just confused where the ethnic cleansing deal came from.

It comes from a cheap rhetorical trick to divert from the argument with an irrelevant slander.

Funny, I thought conceptualizing multiple threats as one monolithic one was relevant…silly me.

But let me know what you think about this statement:

[i]
Don’t worry, thunderbolt23. The Jews of Israel and America will soon poke us Muslims enough that we will respond. Since we’re the ones with all the brainpower on our sides, perhaps places like Israel will go from “most populous” to “least populous” in a relatively short period of time. No doubt you’ll use some nuke on Pakistan or Iran or the Syria, which will cause us Muslims to respond in kind.

I’ve noticed that the American CIA are also active in newly ascendent China. I’m not the brightest man, but it seems to me that it’s unwise for you all to be aggravating the ChiComs as well as the Pakistanis, Iranians, Middle Easterners, etc. Political correctness hasn’t had an opportunity to work its way into the psyches of the Chinese political class, if you know what I mean.

Perhaps, instead of constantly raging about what you perceive everyone else is doing to the poor Jews, you Christians could introspect and start making something of the wreck that is your civilization. Perhaps not though, right?

So, basically ignore reality and pretend we’re on Bizzaro world? I mean it’s clever to switch the roles and the actors around, but that just isn’t the way it is. [/quote]

Wait, what do you think is absurd? That the CIA is active in China? That America might drop a nuke? Or that Muslims might try to get a nuke into Israel?

And yet again no condemnation of those calling for the deaths of millions? Why is that such a hard thing to condemn Sloth?

154

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sloth wrote:

I’m just confused where the ethnic cleansing deal came from.

It comes from a cheap rhetorical trick to divert from the argument with an irrelevant slander.

Funny, I thought conceptualizing multiple threats as one monolithic one was relevant…silly me.

But let me know what you think about this statement:

[i]
Don’t worry, thunderbolt23. The Jews of Israel and America will soon poke us Muslims enough that we will respond. Since we’re the ones with all the brainpower on our sides, perhaps places like Israel will go from “most populous” to “least populous” in a relatively short period of time. No doubt you’ll use some nuke on Pakistan or Iran or the Syria, which will cause us Muslims to respond in kind.

I’ve noticed that the American CIA are also active in newly ascendent China. I’m not the brightest man, but it seems to me that it’s unwise for you all to be aggravating the ChiComs as well as the Pakistanis, Iranians, Middle Easterners, etc. Political correctness hasn’t had an opportunity to work its way into the psyches of the Chinese political class, if you know what I mean.

Perhaps, instead of constantly raging about what you perceive everyone else is doing to the poor Jews, you Christians could introspect and start making something of the wreck that is your civilization. Perhaps not though, right?

So, basically ignore reality and pretend we’re on Bizzaro world? I mean it’s clever to switch the roles and the actors around, but that just isn’t the way it is.

Wait, what do you think is absurd? That the CIA is active in China? That America might drop a nuke? Or that Muslims might try to get a nuke into Israel?

And yet again no condemnation of those calling for the deaths of millions? Why is that such a hard thing to condemn Sloth?
[/quote]

We’ve been over this. I’m done.

155

Actually, you haven’t argued anything. All you’ve done is scream, “Racist!” every time I’ve presented facts you don’t like. You’re pretty much a broken record.

156

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
yeah, but it’s also centuries old…and the only pro they ever seem to come up with.

oh yeah, that and the fact that they were in a period of enlightenment while Europe was in the dark ages. Yet, before Rome fell, the opposite could easily be said for Arab culture.

[/quote]

This period of “enlightenment,” upon closer inspection, involved a distant 2nd class citizenship of non-Muslims and a system of slavery. Non-Muslims paid a crushing jizya and were subjected to floggings when they couldn’t come up with the money to pay it. They were subjected to constant harassment for being non-Muslims and were forced to wear special clothing (have special haircuts even), to house Muslims upon demand, and were under penalty of death for various things including spreading their religion.

Really, Islamic civilization became the backwater we see today as they began to run out of dhimmis, who were the ones responsible for paying most of the taxes and doing most of the Muslim’s work. Once that tax base eroded due to constant persecution, forced conversion, and emigration, the Muslims were forced to come up with their own discoveries and generate their own tax revenue. There are various Islamic presuppositions that counteract the pursuit of scientific knowledge amongst Muslims.

157

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
…you also don’t realize that Malaysians are different than North Africans who are different than Pakistanis…to you these types are all the same and you actually want me to explain these differences and their effects for you? Nice. And not only are they the same, but…

Yeah, uh, I get that they’re different ethnic groups. Not too difficult a concept. However I was hoping you’d explain the differences in ideology as they relate to non-Muslims, especially non-Muslim minorities in their own countries. I won’t hold my breath.

…they’re all bad too. You’re definitely making your case well! Why did I ever think you were a bigoted, racist twat?

Calling me a racist has no effect on me. If you want, you can start an entire thread called “PRCalDude’s a Racist!1!!!1” if you feel like it. You can scream it until you’re blue in the face if it makes you feel better. The fact that you keep using the term means that you having nothing to say by way of coherent rebuttal, but this is what I’ve come to expect of you G_L. Oh well.

Obviously calling you a racist doesn’t affect you. I can only assume you’ve realized yourself a racist long ago and, apparently, you take great pride in it.

“coherent rebuttal” to the argument that “they’re all the same”? Is that what you’re looking for? Listen mate, I know to you this is just one big threat, but thankfully those here who actually deal with defense aren’t as dense as you are.

Why don’t you pull out some more quotes from the Qur’an to “prove” how similar Malaysians are to Syrians? You seem to think yourself educated when you do so. Or maybe you can “prove it” by showing that people from the developing world are moving to the developed world again, that was a good one!

Your repeated “argument” of “racist!” is a logical fallacy. I will attempt to demonstrate it for those reading this thread who haven’t completely lobotomized themselves with PC groupthink as you have.

Let’s say that I’m the next incarnation of A. Hitler and I go outside, look at the sky, and say, “It’s blue!” Does that make me wrong? After all, the statement was made by a racist. What if I stated some other fact, like that the earth revolves around the sun. Is that now untrue because the statement was made by a racist?

Let’s now say, as I have, that, “Muslims believe X according to and do Y according to X.” Is the statement now untrue because I’m a racist? Of course not. It’s a logical fallacy to say that a statement is true or false based on who’s making it. If a person is a known liar, then you would obviously want to look up the facts yourself to see whether or not they’re true, but you haven’t even attempted that. No, you’ve screamed, “Racist!” at everything I’ve said without attempting to verify what I’ve said for yourself or present counter-facts that weaken my original case. Some people may buy your argument. Some may want to chip in for a drool pan and a mouth diaper for your verbal diarrhea.

So, in summary, the question is not whether PRCalDude is a “Racist!” but whether PRCalDude is speaking the truth. If I’m such a benighted racist - blinded by my own bigotry, arrogance, and sense of racial supremacism - one would think it would be rather trivial to refute my arguments.

Well, at least you admit your biases now, albeit yet in a convoluted way.

Once again, big thinker, I’m arguing that your conceptualization of Islamic peoples as a monolithic entity is absurd (and most probably based upon your bigotry, although motive is hard to tell). Further, it detracts from the actual, multiple, threats that America faces. Your continued attempts to call Muslims on this board “terrorists” is a further distraction (as well as evidence of your biased thinking).

It’s not that you should be discounted solely because you’re a racist twat, it’s also because your “arguments” are laughable at best. “They’re all the same” was, I hope, put to a close when Nixon went to China. [/quote]

You have failed to make a rational case in support of what you are saying. The ummah is supposed to be a monolithic entity and in the most important ways it is.

All you are doing is focusing on minor regional differences between Muslim groups and saying see they are not all the same. You are focusing in on and nitpicking minor details while ignoring the big picture.

158

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
yeah, but it’s also centuries old…and the only pro they ever seem to come up with.

oh yeah, that and the fact that they were in a period of enlightenment while Europe was in the dark ages. Yet, before Rome fell, the opposite could easily be said for Arab culture.

This period of “enlightenment,” upon closer inspection, involved a distant 2nd class citizenship of non-Muslims and a system of slavery. Non-Muslims paid a crushing jizya and were subjected to floggings when they couldn’t come up with the money to pay it. They were subjected to constant harassment for being non-Muslims and were forced to wear special clothing (have special haircuts even), to house Muslims upon demand, and were under penalty of death for various things including spreading their religion.

Really, Islamic civilization became the backwater we see today as they began to run out of dhimmis, who were the ones responsible for paying most of the taxes and doing most of the Muslim’s work. Once that tax base eroded due to constant persecution, forced conversion, and emigration, the Muslims were forced to come up with their own discoveries and generate their own tax revenue. There are various Islamic presuppositions that counteract the pursuit of scientific knowledge amongst Muslims.

[/quote]

The dark ages is a prime example of the bad that Islam has done to the world and the general ignorance that westerners have about their history.

The dark ages occurred when western civilization lost the knowledge and advancement of Rome. The cause of this was the Muslim conquest of the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) empire.

Today we are told the Muslims kept the knowledge of Rome alive during the dark ages. The fact that the Muslim theft of that knowledge caused the dark ages is something that gets ignored.

159

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

Funny, I thought conceptualizing multiple threats as one monolithic one was relevant…silly me. [/quote]

Whether “conceptualizing multiple threats as one monolithic one” is relevant or not, “conceptualizing multiple threats as one monolithic one” is not the same thing as “ethnic cleansing”.

Is amateur hour ever over?

Ethnic cleansing entails a very specific goal of eliminating an ethnic minority to clear the way for an ethnic majority.

By the definition of “ethnic cleansing” you try and foist upon PRCalDude or Sloth here, our response to the Axis powers in WWII - total war against different countries with different peoples and ethnicities but who operated by essentially the same murderous ideology that needed to be stopped - was “ethnic cleansing”.

Preposterous. As I said earlier, it is a diversion to avoid having to answer tough questions - much like the reflexive reply of “racist!!!” anytime dares to criticize affirmative action.

[quote][i]Don’t worry, thunderbolt23. The Jews of Israel and America will soon poke us Muslims enough that we will respond. Since we’re the ones with all the brainpower on our sides, perhaps places like Israel will go from “most populous” to “least populous” in a relatively short period of time. No doubt you’ll use some nuke on Pakistan or Iran or the Syria, which will cause us Muslims to respond in kind.

I’ve noticed that the American CIA are also active in newly ascendent China. I’m not the brightest man, but it seems to me that it’s unwise for you all to be aggravating the ChiComs as well as the Pakistanis, Iranians, Middle Easterners, etc. Political correctness hasn’t had an opportunity to work its way into the psyches of the Chinese political class, if you know what I mean.

Perhaps, instead of constantly raging about what you perceive everyone else is doing to the poor Jews, you Christians could introspect and start making something of the wreck that is your civilization. Perhaps not though, right? [/i] [/quote]

Not sure where you quote came from, but what is the point?

One major flaw is that with mere reversal of parties to show a point, it assumes a moral equivalent between the positions - an “apples to apples” comparison. It isn’t, and it never has been.

Oh, and by the way, whatever the source of your quote, the meat of it isn’t a hypothetical - many Muslims already see the mere existence of Israel as worthy of extinction: the mere existence of Israel is “poking” enough to illicit an attempt to push Israel into the sea.

Your problem is you don’t ask and anwser a harder question - is that right or wrong? You simply provide a moral equivocation and skip away whistling.

160

Not sure that it fits this thread. But, I didn’t want to start a new post up, and this is somewhat related to SOME of the discussion here.

Anyways, a second look at tolerance and immigrants. From the left?!

From the left, a call to end the current Dutch notion of tolerance

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/29/europe/politicus.php?page=1