[quote]lixy wrote:
Get a girlfriend.[/quote]
Sarcasm escapes the young padawan.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Oh well. When the Pakistani Muslims step up their jihad against the Hindus, maybe you’ll become less careless with your analogies. 175 innocent deaths apparently weren’t enough (notwithstanding the hundreds of thousands of Hindus killed when Pakistan split off from India in the first place, nor the millions killed under Muslim rule of India). Spengler thinks most of the jihadists from that attack are still on the loose, so we’ll have to wait and see if he’s right:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JL16Ak02.html
[/quote]
Or maybe I just accept the fact that these people are so utterly retarded and xenophobic that they’ll end up killing each other over trivial differences in the interpretation of how to kill the infidels.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Well Ephrem I do not like the idea of having to kill millions of people either. But there is a hardcore of militants that probably numbers into the millions.
They are ready to kill for what they believe in and some of them have. They are also ready to die for what they believe in. We can’t be squeamish about what needs to be done and we have to accept it.
This is absolute insanity. Are you honestly saying we “can’t be squeamish” about “killing (hundreds of) millions”???
If it is a matter of kill or be killed or slavery then what choice have the given us?
Nonsense.
They have given “YOU” the slightly increased chance of dying.
Bullshit. The Muslims don’t have the right to increase anyone’s chances of dying to any degree.
Not comparable with HFC-syrup, trans fats or even bowling, more like the chance of being killed by lightning while polka dancing.
You are delusional and completely in denial. The Jihadists would love to get ahold of WMD and kill millions. But that’s not the only threat.
If India, Pakistan or Israel, Iran have a nuclear exchange it will be an ecological disaster for the entire planet. The amount of radioactive debris that would be thrown up into the atmosphere from a thermonuclear weapon being detonated over a city the size of Mumbai, Islamabad, Tehran, Delhi, would be much worse than the tests in the desert in the fifties.
An India Pakistan nuclear war has the potential to trigger a nuclear winter. I suspect that any survivors of a nuclear winter would not want to ever have a repeat.
That gives you the right to fart in their general direction and not to commit mass murder.
Or, if that is really your guiding principle, start with the death penalty for drunk driving first.
You are completely out of touch with reality. I have no say in the matter. Threatening people with mass murder like the Islamists are doing is asking for a retaliation. Especially when it is a country like Iran threatening the Jews in Israel who have already been down that road. Unlike the last time they have the ability to do something about it.
You need to wake up and realize there are things happening in this world that the US and to a much lesser extent Europe have no control over.[/quote]
First of all, you, and all the people around you make other peoples lifes a bit riskier every day.
You probably use a car, electricity, or might even have a swimming pool!
To think that other people have no “right” to make life riskier for you means the end of civilization.
The only difference is that they do not really offer anything in return, instead of slight amusement, but that hardly changes that you will most definitely not be killed by a terrorist.
Even if the dreaded WMD attack happened, with 10 times as many casualities as 9-11, so what? 30000 is nothing compared to the 300 million Americans.
What is really interesting though is that you do not see the other side:
Some crazy Arab has killed a few Americans and a few other crazy Arabs are talking trash.
America however, has, quite officially, lead an embargo that killed 500000 children and God only knows how many sick and elderly and is regularly blowing up whole wedding parties.
Not by cowardly suicide bombers but by courageous bomber pilots on speed and American pundits are calling for an attack on Iran.
So, if someone needs some preventive killing, why them and not you?
[quote]Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
How long will it take for us non-muslims to become a minority?
That’s not what he said. It was something about “you Dutch” becoming a minority in the Netherlands, which is quite the oxymoron.
When Turkey becomes an EU member 90 million Turkish Muslims will be able to settle anywhere they want. They could easily render the Dutch a minority in the Netherlands.
[/quote]
They already can.
Actually, the most radical Islamists will probably not leave Turkey and most young Turkish Austrians would not go back to Turkey.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sifu wrote: The population of the Netherlands 16.5 million. If there are a million Muslims that makes them much more than 1.6 percent of the population. I am surprised you don’t know the demographics of your homeland. Are really a Dutchman from the Netherlands? Or are you one of Lixy’s classmates from the Madrassa?
…if there are one million muslims in Holland, and the population of Holland is 16.5 million people then the number of muslims in Holland is even less 1.6% of the total population. I suck at calculus, so i could be wrong ofcourse. Please correct me if i am…
[/quote]
If think your problem is that you try to solve a simple division with calculus ;-)…
1/16,5=0,06060… → 6%
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sifu wrote: The population of the Netherlands 16.5 million. If there are a million Muslims that makes them much more than 1.6 percent of the population. I am surprised you don’t know the demographics of your homeland. Are really a Dutchman from the Netherlands? Or are you one of Lixy’s classmates from the Madrassa?
…if there are one million muslims in Holland, and the population of Holland is 16.5 million people then the number of muslims in Holland is even less 1.6% of the total population. I suck at calculus, so i could be wrong ofcourse. Please correct me if i am…[/quote]
You are. You’d have to have a 100 millions population for 1 million to represent 1%.
But I want to know where you got that “one million muslims” from. It does seem like a heavily inflated figure given the results of these guys’ poll.
http://www.motivaction.nl/153/Nieuws/Artikelen/d:319/Religie-is-niet-weg-maar-anders/
…this thread reminds me of Agent Albert Rosenfield:
Albert: You listen to me! While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is I am a nay-sayer and a hatchet man in the fight against violence! I pride myself in taking a punch and I’ll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King! My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method… is love. I love you, Sheriff Truman.
[quote]orion wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Sifu wrote: The population of the Netherlands 16.5 million. If there are a million Muslims that makes them much more than 1.6 percent of the population. I am surprised you don’t know the demographics of your homeland. Are really a Dutchman from the Netherlands? Or are you one of Lixy’s classmates from the Madrassa?
…if there are one million muslims in Holland, and the population of Holland is 16.5 million people then the number of muslims in Holland is even less 1.6% of the total population. I suck at calculus, so i could be wrong ofcourse. Please correct me if i am…
If think your problem is that you try to solve a simple division with calculus ;-)…
1/16,5=0,06060… → 6%
[/quote]
…thank you, i’ve never been good with numbers (-:
[quote]lixy wrote:But I want to know where you got that “one million muslims” from. It does seem like a heavily inflated figure given the results of these guys’ poll.
http://www.motivaction.nl/153/Nieuws/Artikelen/d:319/Religie-is-niet-weg-maar-anders/[/quote]
…according to the official bureau for statistics, the estimated number of muslims in Holland is 850.000. That about 5% of the total population. So yes, my one million was a little high (-:
Wow, I’m really amazed at all the positive aspects Islam has for the World. Who knew?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:But I want to know where you got that “one million muslims” from. It does seem like a heavily inflated figure given the results of these guys’ poll.
http://www.motivaction.nl/153/Nieuws/Artikelen/d:319/Religie-is-niet-weg-maar-anders/
…according to the official bureau for statistics, the estimated number of muslims in Holland is 850.000. That about 5% of the total population. So yes, my one million was a little high (-:
Ruim 850 duizend islamieten in Nederland [/quote]
It still does seem inflated to me by at least a couple hundred thousands. I’m guessing that CBS infers a person’s religious beliefs (or lack thereof) from ancestry.
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:But I want to know where you got that “one million muslims” from. It does seem like a heavily inflated figure given the results of these guys’ poll.
http://www.motivaction.nl/153/Nieuws/Artikelen/d:319/Religie-is-niet-weg-maar-anders/
…according to the official bureau for statistics, the estimated number of muslims in Holland is 850.000. That about 5% of the total population. So yes, my one million was a little high (-:
It still does seem inflated to me by at least a couple hundred thousands. I’m guessing that CBS infers a person’s religious beliefs (or lack thereof) from ancestry.[/quote]
…which reasons do you have for thinking the figure is considerably lower?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…which reasons do you have for thinking the figure is considerably lower?
[/quote]
As you may know, there were many Moroccans who emigrated to the Netherlands in the 60s and 70s when the latter needed labor. Most were from the Northern provinces. There were, of course, economical factors behind that but the violent repression of republicanists by the monarchy was the driving force in my opinion. I know quite a few of those whom I met in Morocco and in the Netherlands. We get to talking about religion and, provided you’re willing to dig a little, you’d be really surprised by the number of (even first generation - but mostly second generation) emigrants who go agnostic or downright into the atheist road.
Then there’s that poll I linked to. Its scope is evidently more limited than that of the census, but the methodology is more approprate in determining religious beliefs.
I’m not suggesting that the above was a representative sample, but if it is, it puts off that figure you posted by hundreds of thousands.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
How long will it take for us non-muslims to become a minority?
That’s not what he said. It was something about “you Dutch” becoming a minority in the Netherlands, which is quite the oxymoron.
When Turkey becomes an EU member 90 million Turkish Muslims will be able to settle anywhere they want. They could easily render the Dutch a minority in the Netherlands.
Even without Turkey joining immigration from other Muslim countries and a birthrate that is several times higher than the Dutch makes small countries like Holland very vulnerable to demographics change.
You know damn well that if things don’t change that will happen. Which is what you want to see happen. Because then your people will be able to force your religion on everyone.
…are you really this scared to think that a [our] government will allow such a massive immigration of one nation’s people to the extend that the natives become a minority? When do you expect Turkey to become a EU member state?
[/quote]
Again you have resorted to using prejudicial statements as a rhetorical tactic in order to try and compensate for the inherent weakness in your counterargument and your distinct lack of debating skills.
When one sees an idiot set a chain of events in motion that has a predictable, negative outcome and points out the obvious the idiot will usually try to defend their idiocy by accusing their critic of being scared. Or in other words if you can’t attack the message attack the messenger.
It is happening in my ancestral homeland and Britain has a lot more people than Holland. When the border with Poland was dropped over a million Poles flooded into Britain. So it has already been shown that mass migrations within the EU are likely to happen, because of the disparities in wealth.
I personally hope that Turkey doesn’t become an EU member, but it is being pushed on the Europeans by the EU. British foreign secretary David Milliband has said he wants to see it happen soon and they don’t want to stop there either. Milliband says he wants to bring the entire Mahgreb and middle east in as well.
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…which reasons do you have for thinking the figure is considerably lower?
As you may know, there were many Moroccans who emigrated to the Netherlands in the 60s and 70s when the latter needed labor. Most were from the Northern provinces. There were, of course, economical factors behind that but the violent repression of republicanists by the monarchy was the driving force in my opinion. I know quite a few of those whom I met in Morocco and in the Netherlands. We get to talking about religion and, provided you’re willing to dig a little, you’d be really surprised by the number of (even first generation - but mostly second generation) emigrants who go agnostic or downright into the atheist road.
Then there’s that poll I linked to. Its scope is evidently more limited than that of the census, but the methodology is more approprate in determining religious beliefs.
I’m not suggesting that the above was a representative sample, but if it is, it puts off that figure you posted by hundreds of thousands.[/quote]
…if i read you correctly, you’re saying that the number of immigrants from islamic countries maybe 850.000 people, but those who practise Islam is far less? To be honest, i don’t think that matter much. It is my experience that people will favor their culture and heritage over the host countries culture, if forced to make a choice. Then it doesn’t matter if they’re practising muslim or not, but a matter of “own kind first”…
…once again, i’m not denying there’s a problem with islam fundamentalism, and that the religion itself is geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy…
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Again you have resorted to using prejudicial statements as a rhetorical tactic in order to try and compensate for the inherent weakness in your counterargument and your distinct lack of debating skills.
When one sees an idiot set a chain of events in motion that has a predictable, negative outcome and points out the obvious the idiot will usually try to defend their idiocy by accusing their critic of being scared. Or in other words if you can’t attack the message attack the messenger.
It is happening in my ancestral homeland and Britain has a lot more people than Holland. When the border with Poland was dropped over a million Poles flooded into Britain. So it has already been shown that mass migrations within the EU are likely to happen, because of the disparities in wealth.
I personally hope that Turkey doesn’t become an EU member, but it is being pushed on the Europeans by the EU. British foreign secretary David Milliband has said he wants to see it happen soon and they don’t want to stop there either. Milliband says he wants to bring the entire Mahgreb and middle east in as well. [/quote]
…the fact that Poles flooded Europe is a result of the free market, and i happen to like Poles. They work hard, they are cheap and even replace north african or Turkish migrant workers in many workplaces. A win-win situation. What we do need is governments putting in place certain restrictions, as they have done when Poland joined, on immigration, and then it’ll be allright…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…if i read you correctly, you’re saying that the number of immigrants from islamic countries maybe 850.000 people, [/quote]
Not even that. You need to appreciate the difference between “islamic countries” and “majority-Muslim countries”.
No argument there.
But maybe, just maybe, you fail to realize that there’s not much in common in terms of “culture and heritage” between an Arab, a Berber, a Kurd, a Turk or a Pashtun once you take Islam out of the picture.
Whoever said anything about being “practising muslim or not”? I wrote that quite a few were atheists.
That’s like saying Professor X is a non-practicing vegetarian.
A problem? No. More like many problems.
I don’t think anyone can do squat about it though. Majority-Muslim countries have been dealing with the nutjob groups for a long time, and despite emergency rules and other aberrations, all of them are still operating. They became ever more dangerous once they got underground.
No. The religion itself is not “geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy”. That is preposterous. The Quran is explicit in that regard. Not even Ben Laden would ever argue otherwise.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Well Ephrem I do not like the idea of having to kill millions of people either. But there is a hardcore of militants that probably numbers into the millions.
They are ready to kill for what they believe in and some of them have. They are also ready to die for what they believe in. We can’t be squeamish about what needs to be done and we have to accept it.
This is absolute insanity. Are you honestly saying we “can’t be squeamish” about “killing (hundreds of) millions”???
If it is a matter of kill or be killed or slavery then what choice have the given us?
Nonsense.
They have given “YOU” the slightly increased chance of dying.
Bullshit. The Muslims don’t have the right to increase anyone’s chances of dying to any degree.
Not comparable with HFC-syrup, trans fats or even bowling, more like the chance of being killed by lightning while polka dancing.
You are delusional and completely in denial. The Jihadists would love to get ahold of WMD and kill millions. But that’s not the only threat.
If India, Pakistan or Israel, Iran have a nuclear exchange it will be an ecological disaster for the entire planet. The amount of radioactive debris that would be thrown up into the atmosphere from a thermonuclear weapon being detonated over a city the size of Mumbai, Islamabad, Tehran, Delhi, would be much worse than the tests in the desert in the fifties.
An India Pakistan nuclear war has the potential to trigger a nuclear winter. I suspect that any survivors of a nuclear winter would not want to ever have a repeat.
That gives you the right to fart in their general direction and not to commit mass murder.
Or, if that is really your guiding principle, start with the death penalty for drunk driving first.
You are completely out of touch with reality. I have no say in the matter. Threatening people with mass murder like the Islamists are doing is asking for a retaliation. Especially when it is a country like Iran threatening the Jews in Israel who have already been down that road. Unlike the last time they have the ability to do something about it.
You need to wake up and realize there are things happening in this world that the US and to a much lesser extent Europe have no control over.
First of all, you, and all the people around you make other peoples lifes a bit riskier every day. [/quote]
No homeboy people it’s like you who are a huge problem. For this sake of argument I will assume that like a lot of people you mean well and have good intentions.
The huge problem with people like you is because you consider yourself to be a “good person” who has “good intentions” you don’t waste your time or tax your mental capacity evaluating how you are going about pursuing your “good intentions”. Your thought process is “why should I bother to think, I have good intentions”, “there are other good people like me who think what we are doing is correct so it must be right” which is the herd mentality.
Then you defend your lack of thinking by assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is a “bad person” who has “bad intentions”. Then you wheel out your particular herds slogans and prepackaged gripes to defend your lack of thinking.
But then you came up with this gem.
[quote]
You probably use a car, electricity, or might even have a swimming pool! [/quote]
To think that other people have no “right” to make life riskier for you means the end of civilization.
WOW! So you believe that if I use modern conveniences my life or my freedom should be put in jeopardy. Now you are spouting the Radical ideology of a European Anarchist with a heavy dose of Green.
[quote]
The only difference is that they do not really offer anything in return, instead of slight amusement, but that hardly changes that you will most definitely not be killed by a terrorist. [/quote]
I use electricity at work so I can earn a living to clothe, house and feed myself. Plus I need a car to get there. You are definitely a Green, probably an extremist, that explains a lot.
I have used the London mass transit system of the tube and buses that was attacked on 7/7, I have been in the World trade center, I have flown over Lockerbie Scotland aboard Pan Am Flt 103. I know for a fact that I am only here today because of good luck and you are “most definitely” full of shit!
[quote]
Even if the dreaded WMD attack happened, with 10 times as many casualities as 9-11, so what? 30000 is nothing compared to the 300 million Americans. [/quote]
Thank you for sharing your world view with us thoroughly debunking my first assumption. You are not motivated by good intentions. You are an extremist. That is the real motivation behind your complaints about American policy.
Finally you have bared your ass for all to see.
[quote]
What is really interesting though is that you do not see the other side:
Some crazy Arab has killed a few Americans and a few other crazy Arabs are talking trash. [/quote]
You are only calling them crazy in order to mislead people about your beliefs. You see nothing wrong with what they are doing, that is why you express such extreme double standards.
[quote]
America however, has, quite officially, lead an embargo that killed 500000 children [/quote]
I assume you are referring to the U.N. sanctions against Iraq.
So now you want us to believe that the reason why you spew such venom at America is you do it for the children. Where have we heard that before.
You do not give a fuck about “the children”. The ONLY reason why you bother to mention them now is because they are a good way to inject emotion into the debate which reduces peoples ability to reason.
That is the kind of rhetorical tactic Herman Goering would use.
You Anarchists didn’t care to complain or engage in marches and mass protests against Saddam, despite the fact that he was the one starving “the children”. To trot them out now and blame it on America is not only rank hypocrisy it is a lie.
[quote]
and God only knows how many sick and elderly [/quote]
Ditto
[quote]
and is regularly blowing up whole wedding parties. [/quote]
So now you want us to believe the US is deliberately targeting weddings. Without giving us any reason why the US would do such a dastardly thing.
[quote]
Not by cowardly suicide bombers but by courageous bomber pilots on speed and American pundits are calling for an attack on Iran.
So, if someone needs some preventive killing, why them and not you? [/quote]
You are just spewing the Anarchist propaganda today.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
How long will it take for us non-muslims to become a minority?
That’s not what he said. It was something about “you Dutch” becoming a minority in the Netherlands, which is quite the oxymoron.
When Turkey becomes an EU member 90 million Turkish Muslims will be able to settle anywhere they want. They could easily render the Dutch a minority in the Netherlands.
They already can. [/quote]
Not like they could if Turkey was a EU member.
[quote]
Actually, the most radical Islamists will probably not leave Turkey and most young Turkish Austrians would not go back to Turkey. [/quote]
This is exactly why EU membership for Turkey is wrong. The only way that Turkey has been able to stay a somewhat secular state has been through direct intervention by the military.
One of the EU demands for Turkish membership is that this mechanism for preventing an Islamist takeover be removed. With no secular safeguard and an open border to let all the secular Turks out Turkey will become an Islamist state in the EU.
It won’t be good for Turkey and it won’t be good for Europe. But it will benefit the Saudis who more than likely own a good number of EU politicians.
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…if i read you correctly, you’re saying that the number of immigrants from islamic countries maybe 850.000 people,
Not even that. You need to appreciate the difference between “islamic countries” and “majority-Muslim countries”.
To be honest, i don’t think that matter much. It is my experience that people will favor their culture and heritage over the host countries culture, if forced to make a choice.
No argument there.
But maybe, just maybe, you fail to realize that there’s not much in common in terms of “culture and heritage” between an Arab, a Berber, a Kurd, a Turk or a Pashtun once you take Islam out of the picture.
Then it doesn’t matter if they’re practising muslim or not, but a matter of “own kind first”…
Whoever said anything about being “practising muslim or not”? I wrote that quite a few were atheists.
That’s like saying Professor X is a non-practicing vegetarian.
…once again, i’m not denying there’s a problem with islam fundamentalism,
A problem? No. More like many problems.
I don’t think anyone can do squat about it though. Majority-Muslim countries have been dealing with the nutjob groups for a long time, and despite emergency rules and other aberrations, all of them are still operating. They became ever more dangerous once they got underground.
[/quote]
That is because the ideology and traditions of Islam are highly conducive to producing nutjobs.
[quote]
and that the religion itself is geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy…
No. The religion itself is not “geared towards a totalitarian society instead of a democracy”. That is preposterous. The Quran is explicit in that regard. Not even Ben Laden would ever argue otherwise.[/quote]
Yes the religion is geared towards a totalitarian society. You are such a liar. At one time I might have though that you were just completely in denial, but your pattern has been to consitent. Everything you write is just Taqqiya for the Kuffar.