Well, Afghanistan has certainly been a static place of the features I’ve mentioned since it became Islamic. I’m not saying it can’t change, I’m just saying it’s highly unlikely. I’d say you’d have a much greater chance of winning the lottery than Afghanistan has of maintaining democracy without our military presence. Of course, we need to look no further than Pakistan to see how democracy plays out amongst such people. Yippeee!
Well, Muhammad was, after all, an Arab. As the prototypical jihadist, ultimately he is responsible for the kernel of jihadism everywhere. I thought that the fact that oil-monied ARabs pay to spread jihad everywhere was no surprise, even for you. Perhaps your head is just stuck too far below the sand to absorb any facts in that regard. You’d certainly benefit from beginning to study(!) the Qur’an and Hadith, as well as representative juridical writings from each of the 4 Schools on such texts. I suspect hell will freeze over before you attempt to know what you’re talking about.
What are the differences and distinctions that you’re referring to here and what are their effects?
Yeah, I just maintain that there are hardly any positives, which is why lixy lives in Sweden and Muslims (and especially non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries, such as Copts, Jews, Darfureans and Chaldeans) are moving by the boatload into non-Muslim countries, especially to the United States and Europe. When the flow of immigration reverses, perhaps I’ll re-examine. These “positives” you vaguely refer to are probably a figment of your imagination or don’t play out in reality. It would be unsurprising to me if you can’t actually think of any.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Again you take the Islamic world and create some sort of monolithic conceptualization of “evil”; ignoring any positives and focusing on all negatives.[/quote]
[quote]pookie wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Again you take the Islamic world and create some sort of monolithic conceptualization of “evil”; ignoring any positives and focusing on all negatives.
What are the positives of the Islamic world? [/quote]
[quote]pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Who said ethnically cleanse?
It’s better to think of it in term of “afterlife express travel arrangements” for a lucky population.
[/quote]
I’m just confused where the ethnic cleansing deal came from. If it’s from that quote, I read it as a “we aren’t going to be able to democratize the place” statement. That he was actually opposing, or at least calling into question, the idea we should should be trying to democratize the nation, is what I got out of it.
The other confusion seems to revolve around a huge attack against us, or another nuclear capable nation, by terrorists using wmd (nuclear was the example used, but it could be bio). At least, that’s the scenario as I read it. From there, it was implied that boat loads would be killed from the retaliatory strike(s). And yes, I don’t believe Bush, Obama, or Israel, or India, etc., would hold back. It would be a game changer. It would totally change the rules, and a lot…a lot…of people would die.
I provided a link in this thread predicting a terrorist wmd strike in this country within the next 5 years. That report isn’t from a right wingnut congress, either. Such an attack would make 9-11 pale in comparison.
Chances are, it will happen. Maybe not here in the US, but they’ll get their hands on some bad stuff, and they won’t hesitate to use it. It won’t matter who is in power, the gloves would be completely off. Right now the US and it’s allies are bogged down trying to democratize these nations. A high caliber wmd attack would turn that into a victory at any cost conflict.
The highest bid on this thread so far is 100 million dead muslims. It deserves ridicule. Predicting the amount of muslims that has to be killed to curb jihad is good for nothing. It just tells you about a morbid character.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Well Ephrem I do not like the idea of having to kill millions of people either. But there is a hardcore of militants that probably numbers into the millions.
They are ready to kill for what they believe in and some of them have. They are also ready to die for what they believe in. We can’t be squeamish about what needs to be done and we have to accept it.
…so you haven’t been attacked by Jihadists then? [/quote]
Until twenty years ago the cheapest airline flight from London to Detroit was Pam Am Flt 103. My whole family had flown on it at one time. My Mother flew on it was a week before it was blown up over Lockerbie Scotland. That was too close for my liking. I have friends who escaped from the World Trade center on 9/11. I have friends who have died in Afghanistan.
If someone tries to kill my family or kills my friends I take it even more personally than I do when I am the one who was attacked.
[quote]
Why don’t you join the military to fight the terrorists? [/quote]
So now you resort to worn out cliches. I am 45 years old, the military stops taking new recruits at age 36. That train left the station a long time ago.
[quote]
Perhaps it’s easier for you to beat the shit out of a Paki with a bunch of your mates, eh? [/quote]
Not content to use worn out cliches you then amateurishly try to disguise a prejudicial statement as a question to try to humiliate me and intimidate me into silence. This is a typical tactic and it isn’t going to work. But I will answer your question.
Beating up some random “Paki” isn’t going to accomplish anything. Getting arrested for assault with an additional hate crime charge is for idiots. Trust me I have seen a hate crime go terribly wrong for the perpetrators.
More important is this. Nowhere in any of my posts have I ever stated that I support or advocate going out and committing hate crimes.
This isn’t the first time in this thread you have used histrionics to misrepresent what I am saying in order to try and make me look bad. Which is another typical tactic. So I am going to set the record straight.
I never said or implied that we need to go out and randomly start killing large numbers of Muslims or act like Hitler. Which is what you have tried to characterize me as saying. If you look back through this thread and read my posts the point I have been making is they are going to bring destruction upon on themselves. The Jihadists won’t give up until they have achieved that and the so called moderates may not fundamentally change their view of their religion until it has happened either.
Coming from someone in Holland that is ironic. Holland is the most liberal country in the world. You Dutch are so liberal that your ideology will not allow you to protect your liberal culture. ie.
When Pim Forteyn said Holland needed to put some kind of limit on the numbers of Muslim immigrants who are flooding into the country he was wrongfully branded a right winger, a racist and was murdered by a leftist because a lot of people agreed with him.
All Pim Fortuyn did was point out the truth that Holland has such a small population that unrestricted immigration of Muslims who are culturally conservative was a threat to Holland remaining a culturally liberal country. Because you Dutch are going to become a minority in your homeland.
[quote]Sifu wrote: Until twenty years ago the cheapest airline flight from London to Detroit was Pam Am Flt 103. My whole family had flown on it at one time. My Mother flew on it was a week before it was blown up over Lockerbie Scotland. That was too close for my liking. I have friends who escaped from the World Trade center on 9/11. I have friends who have died in Afghanistan.
If someone tries to kill my family or kills my friends I take it even more personally than I do when I am the one who was attacked.[/quote]
…and because of this you advocate the murder of millions of people. What do you do when someone on the street pisses you off?
[quote]Why don’t you join the military to fight the terrorists?
So now you resort to worn out cliches. I am 45 years old, the military stops taking new recruits at age 36. That train left the station a long time ago.[/quote]
…you’re like HeadHunter’s little brother. That’s good to know…
…i think that advocating the murder of millions of people out of fear equals hate crime, but that’s just me…
…carpet bombing millions of people, which you have to do to kill those numbers, will always lead to random killings. If the war in Iraq taught us anything, and it seems you haven’t learned anything from that war, it’s that bombing the shit out of people leads to innocent deaths. Over a half a million already…
[quote]All Pim Fortuyn did was point out the truth that Holland has such a small population that unrestricted immigration of Muslims who are culturally conservative was a threat to Holland remaining a culturally liberal country. Because you Dutch are going to become a minority in your homeland.
…Pim Fortuyn was a very intelligent man, and would never have proposed your idea of th en mass slaughter of millions of people so we can feel secure in our little country. There are roughly one million muslims of many nationalities in Holland. That’s 1.6 percent of the population. How long will it take for us non-muslims to become a minority?
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Well Ephrem I do not like the idea of having to kill millions of people either. But there is a hardcore of militants that probably numbers into the millions.
They are ready to kill for what they believe in and some of them have. They are also ready to die for what they believe in. We can’t be squeamish about what needs to be done and we have to accept it.
This is absolute insanity. Are you honestly saying we “can’t be squeamish” about “killing (hundreds of) millions”???
If it is a matter of kill or be killed or slavery then what choice have the given us? [/quote]
Nonsense.
They have given “YOU” the slightly increased chance of dying.
Not comparable with HFC-syrup, trans fats or even bowling, more like the chance of being killed by lightning while polka dancing.
That gives you the right to fart in their general direction and not to commit mass murder.
Or, if that is really your guiding principle, start with the death penalty for drunk driving first.
lixy’s obfuscation has been particularly bad since his return, so I thought I’d post a few quotes from the Hadith (Sahih Muslim) for him to try to explain away:
[quote]lixy wrote:
pookie wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Again you take the Islamic world and create some sort of monolithic conceptualization of “evil”; ignoring any positives and focusing on all negatives.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Sifu wrote: Until twenty years ago the cheapest airline flight from London to Detroit was Pam Am Flt 103. My whole family had flown on it at one time. My Mother flew on it was a week before it was blown up over Lockerbie Scotland. That was too close for my liking. I have friends who escaped from the World Trade center on 9/11. I have friends who have died in Afghanistan.
If someone tries to kill my family or kills my friends I take it even more personally than I do when I am the one who was attacked.
…and because of this you advocate the murder of millions of people. What do you do when someone on the street pisses you off?
[/quote]
You have done a cut and paste hack job on my reply in order to continue your rhetorical tactic of using histrionics.
I have not advocated murder. I clearly addressed these issues in my last reply which you have deliberately edited in order to continue misrepresenting what I have said.
[quote]
Why don’t you join the military to fight the terrorists?
So now you resort to worn out cliches. I am 45 years old, the military stops taking new recruits at age 36. That train left the station a long time ago.
…you’re like HeadHunter’s little brother. That’s good to know…
More important is this. Nowhere in any of my posts have I ever stated that I support or advocate going out and committing hate crimes.
…i think that advocating the murder of millions of people out of fear equals hate crime, but that’s just me… [/quote]
Again you are trying to misrepresent what I have written.
[quote]
I never said or implied that we need to go out and randomly start killing large numbers of Muslims or act like Hitler. Which is what you have tried to characterize me as saying. If you look back through this thread and read my posts the point I have been making is they are going to bring destruction upon on themselves. The Jihadists won’t give up until they have achieved that and the so called moderates may not fundamentally change their view of their religion until it has happened either.
…carpet bombing millions of people, which you have to do to kill those numbers, will always lead to random killings. If the war in Iraq taught us anything, and it seems you haven’t learned anything from that war, it’s that bombing the shit out of people leads to innocent deaths. Over a half a million already… [/quote]
The Indians and the Israelis don’t have heavy bombers so they aren’t going to be carpet bombing anyone. But they do have nukes.
Your death toll for Iraq is a made up load of bullshit.
[quote]
All Pim Fortuyn did was point out the truth that Holland has such a small population that unrestricted immigration of Muslims who are culturally conservative was a threat to Holland remaining a culturally liberal country. Because you Dutch are going to become a minority in your homeland.
…Pim Fortuyn was a very intelligent man, and would never have proposed your idea of th en mass slaughter of millions of people so we can feel secure in our little country. There are roughly one million muslims of many nationalities in Holland. That’s 1.6 percent of the population. How long will it take for us non-muslims to become a minority?[/quote]
Again you are deliberately trying to misrepresent what I have said by making something up and saying it is my idea.
The population of the Netherlands 16.5 million. If there are a million Muslims that makes them much more than 1.6 percent of the population. I am surprised you don’t know the demographics of your homeland. Are really a Dutchman from the Netherlands? Or are you one of Lixy’s classmates from the Madrassa?
[quote]orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Well Ephrem I do not like the idea of having to kill millions of people either. But there is a hardcore of militants that probably numbers into the millions.
They are ready to kill for what they believe in and some of them have. They are also ready to die for what they believe in. We can’t be squeamish about what needs to be done and we have to accept it.
This is absolute insanity. Are you honestly saying we “can’t be squeamish” about “killing (hundreds of) millions”???
If it is a matter of kill or be killed or slavery then what choice have the given us?
Nonsense.
They have given “YOU” the slightly increased chance of dying.
[/quote]
Bullshit. The Muslims don’t have the right to increase anyone’s chances of dying to any degree.
[quote]
Not comparable with HFC-syrup, trans fats or even bowling, more like the chance of being killed by lightning while polka dancing. [/quote]
You are delusional and completely in denial. The Jihadists would love to get ahold of WMD and kill millions. But that’s not the only threat.
If India, Pakistan or Israel, Iran have a nuclear exchange it will be an ecological disaster for the entire planet. The amount of radioactive debris that would be thrown up into the atmosphere from a thermonuclear weapon being detonated over a city the size of Mumbai, Islamabad, Tehran, Delhi, would be much worse than the tests in the desert in the fifties.
An India Pakistan nuclear war has the potential to trigger a nuclear winter. I suspect that any survivors of a nuclear winter would not want to ever have a repeat.
You are completely out of touch with reality. I have no say in the matter. Threatening people with mass murder like the Islamists are doing is asking for a retaliation. Especially when it is a country like Iran threatening the Jews in Israel who have already been down that road. Unlike the last time they have the ability to do something about it.
You need to wake up and realize there are things happening in this world that the US and to a much lesser extent Europe have no control over.
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
How long will it take for us non-muslims to become a minority?
That’s not what he said. It was something about “you Dutch” becoming a minority in the Netherlands, which is quite the oxymoron.
[/quote]
When Turkey becomes an EU member 90 million Turkish Muslims will be able to settle anywhere they want. They could easily render the Dutch a minority in the Netherlands.
Even without Turkey joining immigration from other Muslim countries and a birthrate that is several times higher than the Dutch makes small countries like Holland very vulnerable to demographics change.
You know damn well that if things don’t change that will happen. Which is what you want to see happen. Because then your people will be able to force your religion on everyone.
…if there are one million muslims in Holland, and the population of Holland is 16.5 million people then the number of muslims in Holland is even less 1.6% of the total population. I suck at calculus, so i could be wrong ofcourse. Please correct me if i am…
[quote]Sifu wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
How long will it take for us non-muslims to become a minority?
That’s not what he said. It was something about “you Dutch” becoming a minority in the Netherlands, which is quite the oxymoron.
When Turkey becomes an EU member 90 million Turkish Muslims will be able to settle anywhere they want. They could easily render the Dutch a minority in the Netherlands.
Even without Turkey joining immigration from other Muslim countries and a birthrate that is several times higher than the Dutch makes small countries like Holland very vulnerable to demographics change.
You know damn well that if things don’t change that will happen. Which is what you want to see happen. Because then your people will be able to force your religion on everyone.
[/quote]
…are you really this scared to think that a [our] government will allow such a massive immigration of one nation’s people to the extend that the natives become a minority? When do you expect Turkey to become a EU member state?