Experiences with Recreational Drugs

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
etaco wrote:
This suggests the novelty and taboo factors may be major drivers of usage.

.

So true. I know that I started using cannabis because it was forbidden to do so. Same with the other drugs that have crossed my path.

However, alcohol and tobacco I can happily never ‘use’ again. This is because alcohol was given to me as a child (watered down wine and the odd glass of cider). My mother smoked and so I leart what a nasty habit it is. Plus if it’s freely available then it can’t be that good, quite frankly.

Bushy[/quote]

Despite my glib comment about alcohol in an earlier post, this hits home as true for me too.

It’s never really had any great hold over me. My dad used to brew beer and my brother and I were always helping out. As a ‘treat’ we were allowed to bottle some for ourselves (we both had a bottle given to us that we always used, held about 200ml).

When brewed we could drink it whenever we wanted within reason.

Wine was sometimes there at meal times and we were allowed it too (watered down).

It was never concidered a taboo thing.

Smoking and other drugs were though. As soon as I had the chance, did I go out on a bender drinking alcohol? No, I got my hands on a big fat spliff and made myself sick as hell smoking it.

Curiosity coupled with the enormous thrill of doing something forbidden are what made me do it.

Theres a comedown, yes, you feel like ass, yes. After binges you may be borderline, or not so borderline psycotic after spending that much time without sleep, i was refering to actual physical withdrawls.

[quote]SeanT wrote:
I would just like to point out that although I favor legalization, it would be severely restricted. To tell you the truth, I don’t trust the average Joe out there with many drugs. People do not know their limits and often exceed them. If they can’t handle alcohol, how could I expect them to handle ecstasy. They will go out and drink them selfs till they pass out in a bathtub and throw everything up and talk about it like it cool. Nobody researches the information about how to stay safe.[/quote]

We think alike we do.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Defekt wrote:
Theres a comedown, yes, you feel like ass, yes. After binges you may be borderline, or not so borderline psycotic after spending that much time without sleep, i was refering to actual physical withdrawls.

I see. I thought there was eventually some form of physiological adaptation to the drug, making the truly addicted, unable to function properly without their dopamine receptors stimulated through cocaine usage…?

Bushy[/quote]

From everything I’ve read, there isn’t. Although I don’t claim to be exceptionally informed. From my “real world” observations, there is some depression (probably from the dopamine issue you commented on) which is cleared up in a short time, and no physical symptoms. Although, I haven’t known enough coke addicts where I can make a blanket statement that will cover the entire population, so I could be wrong.

[quote]Defekt wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Defekt wrote:
Theres a comedown, yes, you feel like ass, yes. After binges you may be borderline, or not so borderline psycotic after spending that much time without sleep, i was refering to actual physical withdrawls.

I see. I thought there was eventually some form of physiological adaptation to the drug, making the truly addicted, unable to function properly without their dopamine receptors stimulated through cocaine usage…?

Bushy

From everything I’ve read, there isn’t. Although I don’t claim to be exceptionally informed. From my “real world” observations, there is some depression (probably from the dopamine issue you commented on) which is cleared up in a short time, and no physical symptoms. Although, I haven’t known enough coke addicts where I can make a blanket statement that will cover the entire population, so I could be wrong. [/quote]

Dopamine can be restored even quicker with a 2-3 grams of L-tyrosine a day. Just another great thing about researching responsible drug use.

After a friend of a friend of a friend got his first depressed day of drug “hangover”, he was feeling pretty crumby( Feeling about 10% of his usual mood) for around 5 hours. Remembered he had some tyrosine and 30 minutes later was feeling MUCH better(Around 50% and an hour later or so was around 90%). Next day he was back at a 100%.

[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
SeanT… you seem like a pretty alright guy. The fact of the matter is, how do you justify the negatives of drugs with the positive. This whole thread really boils down to that question.

You can question my qualifications, have I done drugs, yes. Do I regret that…the answer is still…yes. Drugs never opened my eyes. You want to call into question which drugs? K. Well acid, shrooms, extacy, coke, …all of the above. And whatever you might throw in my direction. If you want me to say that the law should legalize them all, hey, do it. Legalize drugs. All of them. I’m downright curious to know what would happen. Do you think we’d reach a sudden Utopia? What do you think would be the outcome of such a decision. What society do you think we would live in if all drugs were legal. It seems to be your dream. My dreams are different, but that doesn’t make me any less curious.

Let’s hear about the world according to SeanT. [/quote]

Well I wrote a VERY long response to your first question using Ecstasy as an example, but I deleted it and figured just linking would be more effective and more knowledge.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_effects.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_effects3.shtml
ttp://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq.shtml#repeat

MDMA MYTHS:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=309463

HOLY GRAIL: MDMA FAQ
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=79027

I’ll answer your second question later, as I have work to be getting to. Don’t worry, I’m not trying to avoid the question. It just requires a long response.

[quote]Defekt wrote:
This is unrelated, but I think its funny that I can get weed, cocain, lsd, oxycontin, a bunch of other random opiates, MDMA, and DMT, easier than I can get alchohol. Something here is flawed. [/quote]

DMT easier to get than alcohol? You must live in one crazy ass town. DMT is easy to get if you extract, but from steet dealers? WTF?

I have been around people on crack, coke, weed, psychs and alcohol. You know the worst one to be around…fuckin alcohol. Crackheads sit there and itch, tweak and keep grabbing more money out of their wallets to get more rocks.

Coke people talk obsessivly about stupid shit that noone cares about all night long. Alcohol people start off ok, then shit goes south people start fighting, become belligerent, grab weapons-bad scene.

Some people can handle drinking, most can’t. Weed and psych’s are the most fun, they play games,laugh, talk about a variety of subjects(not like coke heads who like to motor mouth).
The only real danger of drugs is being arrested.

Up till 1914 all drugs were legal, society didn’t fall apart, and the level of crime and violence was nowhere close to today.
Check out LEAP(Law enforcement against prohibition)
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Intersweat wrote:
Defekt wrote:
I feel those that get addicted to coke are simply weak minded. I would be hard pressed to even call cocaine a “hard drug”, from my experience with it. (yes it was quality cocaine)

It takes a long time to get addicted to coke. At first your body doesn’t really know what it is and you don’t get the same hit that a more experienced user. I would say someone who has a coke habit has been very consistent with taking MINIMUM once or twice a week for many months - NOT weak minded.

which is exactly what I’ve said all along. The shit is formed through consistancy of habit. You don’t do coke once and become an addict. You choose to continue to do it, until you get to the point where beign sober sucks ass.[/quote]

Not really, Everyone’s brain is wired differently. I’m talking about electrical activity observed on SPECT scans. Some people can take a stimulant and use it for awhile until they get hooked as stated. But on the other hand, there are brains wired for stimulants. these people get hooked quicker and harder.

Think along the line of ADD. They give certain dosages of stimulants to normalize to maybe a better term is equalize your brain functioning. Giving these folk cocaine is a horrible idea, along with meth etc. I’m an add person and i do have to watch my caffeine consumption. Before you know it I’m doing it to much.

I’d never do coke. As for pot, I tried it three times in my life and almost started a few fights. It made me angry and nasty. Not mellow and laid back. Now most will say pot smokers don’t start fights, but I was close.

Now here’s the problem with me, if I was to smoke weed, I’m sure it would make it a little easier to do something else that might be more harmful. Lowering my resistance so to speak.

It’s not just will power, believe me. It will bite certain people on the ass before they know.

[quote]SeanT wrote:
Defekt wrote:
This is unrelated, but I think its funny that I can get weed, cocain, lsd, oxycontin, a bunch of other random opiates, MDMA, and DMT, easier than I can get alchohol. Something here is flawed.

DMT easier to get than alcohol? You must live in one crazy ass town. DMT is easy to get if you extract, but from steet dealers? WTF?[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it’s not really DMT.

DMT is an interesting drug. It’s the only endogenous psychedelic (meaning that your body actually produces it), it also is actually shuttled through the brain/blood barrier, meaning that the body actually has mechanisms already set up for it’s absorption.

It also has no negative physiological affects on the body.

Back to the original topic, I’ve done LSD, Mushrooms, ecstasy and cocaine in the past.

As has been said, psychadelics aren’t necessarily physically damaging (unless they’re abused), but you really need to have someone around who you trust, has done them themself and knows how to talk someone down in case you start to freak out. It’s also a good idea to really know who you are (as from my experience anyhow, you tend to “lose yourself” when you start tripping and the faster you can find yourself, the better the trip will be and the more you will enjoy it. hope that makes sense) I’m not suggesting that people do them, just that if you already have your mind made up, to take the proper precautions.

Cocaine had to be the dumbest drug I’ve ever done IMO. Granted I didn’t do it very often or regularly for any period of time. But that’s probably because I didn’t really feel anything off of it, and as a result didn’t enjoy it very much. That said, I know a number of people who loved it and became very much addicted to it. In my experience it’s not worth even taking that risk with.

Now would I suggest for any person to do drugs? No probably not. That’s a decision that I feel the individual should make for themself (an educated decision hopefully). But I agree with others that not all of them are evil incarnate like some might have you believe.

You know while I have never tired the drugs but I have used the legal drugs, beer mainly and tobaco, I do have to say that most of the people who do bad shit like beat their wife, drive drunk, etc. would probably do the same things on the drugs. The people that are hard core alcoholics would have been the same with another drug. As well as the fact that the alcohol deaths alot of them are from young people that abuse teh shit out the them.

You go to a party and are encouraged to drink obsence amounts and do dumb shit. It is glorified to the extremem to drink extreme amounts. You all like using the european model and it is the same for alcohol. You teach kids how to drink responsibly then they wont get in to the dumb shit. euro has less car wrecks and alcohol related deaths. But you know the thing with alcohol is that it has been a part of human history to as far back as you can trace. We have been making beer since before 10000 bc and it has been a valuable part of our existence and at times was even better than water to drink. It would be very hard to get rid of the alcohol.

[quote]AllerCuzine wrote:
You know while I have never tired the drugs but I have used the legal drugs, beer mainly and tobaco, I do have to say that most of the people who do bad shit like beat their wife, drive drunk, etc. would probably do the same things on the drugs. The people that are hard core alcoholics would have been the same with another drug. As well as the fact that the alcohol deaths alot of them are from young people that abuse teh shit out the them.

You go to a party and are encouraged to drink obsence amounts and do dumb shit. It is glorified to the extremem to drink extreme amounts. You all like using the european model and it is the same for alcohol. You teach kids how to drink responsibly then they wont get in to the dumb shit. euro has less car wrecks and alcohol related deaths. But you know the thing with alcohol is that it has been a part of human history to as far back as you can trace. We have been making beer since before 10000 bc and it has been a valuable part of our existence and at times was even better than water to drink. It would be very hard to get rid of the alcohol. [/quote]

Alcohol brings out the worst in people. You never hear about people beating their wives while high on marijuana? Your driving is not impaired to a large degree. You can’t make the generalizations you are making. You are comparing apples and oranges. They are both fruits, but VERY different in nearly every way.

[quote]http://www.jackherer.com/chapter01.html
�??The earliest known woven fabric was apparently of hemp, which began to be worked in the eighth millennium (8,000-7,000 B.C.).�?? (The Columbia History of the World, 1981, page 54.)

The body of literature (i.e., archaeology, anthropology, philology, economy, history) pertaining to hemp is in general agreement that, at the very least:

From more than 1,000 years before the time of Christ until 1883 A.D., cannabis hemp, indeed, marijuana was our planet�??s largest agricultural crop and most important industry, involving thousands of products and enterprises; producing the overall majority of Earth�??s fiber, fabric, lighting oil, paper, incense and medicines. In addition, it was a primary source of essential food oil and protein for humans and animals.

[/quote]

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
SeanT wrote:
Defekt wrote:
This is unrelated, but I think its funny that I can get weed, cocain, lsd, oxycontin, a bunch of other random opiates, MDMA, and DMT, easier than I can get alchohol. Something here is flawed.

DMT easier to get than alcohol? You must live in one crazy ass town. DMT is easy to get if you extract, but from steet dealers? WTF?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it’s not really DMT.

DMT is an interesting drug. It’s the only endogenous psychedelic (meaning that your body actually produces it), it also is actually shuttled through the brain/blood barrier, meaning that the body actually has mechanisms already set up for it’s absorption.

It also has no negative physiological affects on the body.

Back to the original topic, I’ve done LSD, Mushrooms, ecstasy and cocaine in the past.

As has been said, psychadelics aren’t necessarily physically damaging (unless they’re abused), but you really need to have someone around who you trust, has done them themself and knows how to talk someone down in case you start to freak out. It’s also a good idea to really know who you are (as from my experience anyhow, you tend to “lose yourself” when you start tripping and the faster you can find yourself, the better the trip will be and the more you will enjoy it. hope that makes sense) I’m not suggesting that people do them, just that if you already have your mind made up, to take the proper precautions.

Cocaine had to be the dumbest drug I’ve ever done IMO. Granted I didn’t do it very often or regularly for any period of time. But that’s probably because I didn’t really feel anything off of it, and as a result didn’t enjoy it very much. That said, I know a number of people who loved it and became very much addicted to it. In my experience it’s not worth even taking that risk with.

Now would I suggest for any person to do drugs? No probably not. That’s a decision that I feel the individual should make for themself (an educated decision hopefully). But I agree with others that not all of them are evil incarnate like some might have you believe.[/quote]

Many people don’t get high off cocaine their first(maybe even first few) times.

[quote]SeanT wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
SeanT wrote:
Defekt wrote:
This is unrelated, but I think its funny that I can get weed, cocain, lsd, oxycontin, a bunch of other random opiates, MDMA, and DMT, easier than I can get alchohol. Something here is flawed.

DMT easier to get than alcohol? You must live in one crazy ass town. DMT is easy to get if you extract, but from steet dealers? WTF?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it’s not really DMT.

DMT is an interesting drug. It’s the only endogenous psychedelic (meaning that your body actually produces it), it also is actually shuttled through the brain/blood barrier, meaning that the body actually has mechanisms already set up for it’s absorption.

It also has no negative physiological affects on the body.

Back to the original topic, I’ve done LSD, Mushrooms, ecstasy and cocaine in the past.

As has been said, psychadelics aren’t necessarily physically damaging (unless they’re abused), but you really need to have someone around who you trust, has done them themself and knows how to talk someone down in case you start to freak out. It’s also a good idea to really know who you are (as from my experience anyhow, you tend to “lose yourself” when you start tripping and the faster you can find yourself, the better the trip will be and the more you will enjoy it. hope that makes sense) I’m not suggesting that people do them, just that if you already have your mind made up, to take the proper precautions.

Cocaine had to be the dumbest drug I’ve ever done IMO. Granted I didn’t do it very often or regularly for any period of time. But that’s probably because I didn’t really feel anything off of it, and as a result didn’t enjoy it very much. That said, I know a number of people who loved it and became very much addicted to it. In my experience it’s not worth even taking that risk with.

Now would I suggest for any person to do drugs? No probably not. That’s a decision that I feel the individual should make for themself (an educated decision hopefully). But I agree with others that not all of them are evil incarnate like some might have you believe.

Many people don’t get high off cocaine their first(maybe even first few) times. [/quote]

Maybe, but I did A LOT of it my first time, and did a fair amount of it several other times. I think that my perspective was somewhat jaded, as I had tripped hard off LSD before then, and in comparison cocaine was lame (at least I thought it was), especially since the high lasted so little time. I exaggerated when I said I didn’t feel anything, maybe I should have said I didn’t feel anything special.

You know I say that is true that I am being broad but just as you are your damn right there has been plenty of accidents becasue of weed I know more people who drive high, work high go to school high and frankly live their lives high because they say that it doesnt affect them the same way.

NO NEGAVTIVES only positives. But you know that alcohol is more demonized in the american we hate alcoholics more than we hate the problems that come with drugs. I have to say that I would rather have the car crashes the the mindles gang wars and death that has been caused by drugs now.

I know people who lives have been ruined by drugs. As I am sure you know of alcoholics. But you know in the end neither is the best for us when abused.Both can be beneficial to us. But i know if some one drinks and does drugs then goes and gets in an accident believe me they wont be saying that you were hight they would say it is the alcohol.

It is just the thing we as americans love to drink but at the same time we dont like those who abuse it. Drugs are bad for you they are you all are fooling youselfs if you believe that their is no negatives to your drug use.

[quote]AllerCuzine wrote:
You know I say that is true that I am being broad but just as you are your damn right there has been plenty of accidents becasue of weed I know more people who drive high, work high go to school high and frankly live their lives high because they say that it doesnt affect them the same way.
[/quote]

Not really… I’m not saying it’s okay to drive high, I’m just stating it is not that dangerous.

I am assuming you meant to say weed causes a lot of accidents… I said weed does not cause that many…

STUDY FINDS CANNABIS NOT CAUSE OF AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENTS

The AGE pA5, CANBERRA TIMES p4, 21 October 1998

The largest study ever done linking road accidents with drugs and alcohol has found drivers with cannabis in their blood were no more at risk than those who were drug-free.

In fact, the findings by a pharmacology team from the University of Adelaide and Transport SA showed drivers who had smoked marijuana were marginally less likely to have an accident than those who were drug-free.

A study spokesman, Dr Jason White, said the difference was not great enough to be statistically significant but could be explained by anecdotal evidence that marijuana smokers were more cautious and drove more slowly because of altered time perception.

The study of 2,500 accidents, which matched the blood alcohol levels of injured drivers with details from police reports, found drug-free drivers caused the accidents in 53.5 per cent of cases.

Injured drivers with a blood-alcohol concentration of more than 0.05 per cent were culpable in nearly 90 per cent of accidents they were involved in. Drivers with cannabis in their blood were less likely to cause an accident, with a culpability rate of 50.6 per cent.

The study has policy implications for those who argue drug detection should be a new focus for road safety. Dr White said the study showed the importance of concentrating efforts on alcohol rather than other drugs.

Report finds dope doesn’t drastically impair driving

ABC News Online 14 Oct 1998

A report has found marijuana use has little or no effect on the cause of car accidents.

A study funded by the South Australian and Federal Governments involved blood testing 2,500 drivers injured in such accidents.

The report has been released at a forensic science symposium in Adelaide.

But, one of the authors, Jason White from Adelaide University, says he is not suggesting it is alright for people to smoke and drive.

“I don’t know if they’re better drivers but they don’t seem to contribute in a major way to road accidents in the manner that alcohol does,” he said.

"We have shown, as other people have, that alcohol has a huge effect on driving in impairing driving.

"We don’t find the same effect with cannabis.

“Whether it’s that people compensate for any impairment caused by cannabis, or they simply don’t drive when they are markedly under the influence, we don’t know. But there is certainly not the effect that alcohol has.”

He says the study which was released in May, has been kept under wraps until now, because of fears the public could get the wrong message from the finding.

Marijuana report ‘too hot to handle’

ABC News Online 14 Oct 1998

A report has found marijuana use has little or no effect on the cause of car accidents.

However, the study has been kept under wraps until now because of fears the public could get the wrong message from the finding.

The Forensic science report commisisoned by the South Australian and Federal Governments tested the blood of 2,500 drivers injured in car accidents.

The report found that marijuana use played very little part while reinforcing the dangers of drink driving.

But it seems the report has been too hot to handle. The New South Wales Government has made it difficult to obtain since its May release perhaps fearing that drivers may get the wrong idea.

But co-author Jason White says the report does not say that it is okay to smoke and drive.

2 Apr 1998

DRIVING - One in five drivers injured in road accidents in South Australia have drugs in their system, a State Government report has revealed (Advertiser 2 March p7).

Prepared by the SA Office of Road Safety, it shows more than 20 per cent of injured drivers have cannabis, stimulants or tranquillisers in their blood - compared to 8.5 per cent with alcohol.

The rpeort, based on blood tests of 1795 injured drivers admitted to hospitals across the State in 1995 and 1996, found:

  • 10.4 per cent of men had alcohol in their blood compared with 3.5 per cent of women
  • 12.6 per cent of men had cannabis in their blood compared with 6.3 per cent of women
  • 6.3 per cent of women had tranquillisers (benzodiazapine) in their blood compared with 3.8 per cent of men
  • 6.3 per cent of women had stimulants in their blood compared to 4.5 per cent of men.

Twenty two per cent of injured motorcyclists had cannabis in their blood.
Drug Testing of Motorists

HERALD SUN p13, The AGE pA2, 19 February 1998

Proposed Victorian Government legislation to allow police to take blood and urine samples from motorists suspected of drug use faces objections from doctors and civil libertarians.

Under legislation which is due to go before Parliament in this session, police could force drivers to undergo a roadside impairment test. If necessary, they could then seek blood and urine samples to analyse the presence of drugs.

A New offence called “driving while impaired” will be made law when parliament formally adopts a report of the Victorian Road Safety Committee. However, Australian Medical Association State president Gerald Segal said people reacted to different drugs in different ways and “Science has not found an objective threshold of impairment using blood and urine levels”.

Liberty Victoria’s Dr Jane Hendtlass said blood and urine tests were too invasive, especially when there was no correlation between drug levels and driving impairment.

Crash Characteristics and Injuries of Victims Impaired by Alcohol vs. Illicit Drugs

From Accident Analysis and Prevention, Volume 29, Number 6, November 1997.

Researchers studied blood samples from 894 patients admitted to two emergency rooms with injuries from automobile crashes. The presence of alcohol in blood was associated with more severe injury than in the case of patients who were alcohol and drug free.

Patients who had other drugs in their blood (including marijuana AND opiates and cocaine) without alcohol showed injuries no worse on average than patients who had no alcohol and no drugs.

…“When other relevant variables were considered, these (everything besides alcohol) drugs were not associated with more severe crashes or greater injury.”

The title of the article is Crash Characteristics and Injuries of Victims Impaired by Alcohol vs. Illicit Drugs. The study was sponsored by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. The main author is Pat Waller of UMTRI, the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute.

ANTI-ANXIETY DRUGS LINKED TO INCREASE IN CAR CRASHES

Associated Press, 1997.

LONDON (AP) – Drivers taking commonly prescribed anti-anxiety drugs, such as Valium, are more than twice as likely to be involved in traffic accidents as those not taking the drugs, a new study says.

The risk of accidents for people under the age of 45 is more than three times as great for those who take the drugs, according to the research, published in today’s edition of the British medical journal The Lancet.

“The current warnings are that if you feel drowsy, don’t drive. That needs to be changed,” said Dr. Tom MacDonald, a clinical pharmacologist from the University of Dundee in Scotland who led the study.

“I would say: If you use these drugs, don’t drive.”

Thousands of lives could be saved worldwide every year, and hundreds of thousands of traffic accidents avoided, if people who use such drugs did not drive while on medication, the researchers said.

Tranquillizers such as Valium, the drug generically known as diazepam, are commonly used to treat anxiety, other stress-related disorders and muscle spasms.

They are the most commonly prescribed type of tranquilizers, with 18 million prescriptions in Britain alone in 1997.

Worldwide figures were not available.

http://www.norml.org.nz/Marijuana/Driving.htm

[quote]SeanT wrote:

Alcohol brings out the worst in people. You never hear about people beating their wives while high on marijuana? [/quote]

I think most people underestimate the negative effects of marijuana. Most of my friends smoke, and all of those who smoke regularly (once a week or more) are agressive and have unpredictable behaviour.

Other than the weed their lives are quite normal but I have noticed the change in there personalities over time. Also most of these guys are introverted and don’t seem to have much motivation.

I know these are broad generalisations and it is not the same for everyone but it is just what I have observed in about six of my close friends who fit into that category.
I do however have one freind who smokes several times a week and is a stand up bloke in every way.

Also ALOT of weed can contribute to mental health problems and loss of memory and function. Another of my friends droped out of UNI and spent 6 months lying around at home even after she stopped.

She had some kind of mental breakdown and lots of memory loss (like weeks of time she doesn’t remember) marijuana was the only drug (other than alcahole) she took in the lead up to this episode.

Often the real stories are not told to everyone because it is embarrassing. I think often the dangers of drugs are over stressed but there are certainly very real dangers with any regular drug use including “softer” drugs or legal ones.