[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
I mean after all, no one could ever get convicted of a crime committed a few years ago based on DNA evidence, because our bodies are completely different because those cells alive at the time have all been replaced by new cells…[/quote]
Heh.
I want to make it clear that I am against abortion under most circumstances. To me though, people are more important than ‘the rules’. Given the choices that that nun had, I agree with her decision. If I know that one death means one will live, but the alternative is almost certain death for mother and child, I choose the first.
I am not God and if God held me in judgment for such a decision, I would say to Him: “I’m not you. Under extreme circumstances, I did the best I could. If I am to be punished for doing the best I could, then go ahead.”
This thread brought bacl a lot bad memories. Sad I started it.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I want to make it clear that I am against abortion under most circumstances. To me though, people are more important than ‘the rules’. Given the choices that that nun had, I agree with her decision. If I know that one death means one will live, but the alternative is almost certain death for mother and child, I choose the first.
I am not God and if God held me in judgment for such a decision, I would say to Him: “I’m not you. Under extreme circumstances, I did the best I could. If I am to be punished for doing the best I could, then go ahead.”
This thread brought bacl a lot bad memories. Sad I started it.[/quote]
It did also for me to friend. God has forgiven us, but have we forgiven ourselves?
I had a friend who was diagnosted with Cervical Cancer in the first trimester of pregnancy. They told her she had to abort the baby, or she would die. The radiation or chemo would certainly kill the baby, but they needed to start the treaments right away. She prayed and fasted for 2 days. She decided to continue on with the pregnancy and not abort. The baby was born without complications, and when they started the treatments for the cancer, they noticed that the cancer was gone. I am not saying she made the right or wrong decision. For every one of the stories above there are probably 100’s that turned out the opposite. I really do not know, but I will say she understood the consequences, and everything came out alright.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
She prayed and fasted for 2 days.[/quote]
Really? While pregnant?
I thought life was sacred.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Look, let’s not beat around the bush here. You are the same individual organism that once resided in the womb.[/quote]
Really?[/quote]
Yep.[/quote]
Even the turnover of cells in our bodies… nope.[/quote]
right . . . because those replacement cells are in no connected with the cells that they replaced and do not function the same with the same system based on the same genetic coding - I mean after all, no one could ever get convicted of a crime committed a few years ago based on DNA evidence, because our bodies are completely different because those cells alive at the time have all been replaced by new cells - so even apart from a genetic POV, I’m techically not the same person who killed all those people and buried them Mak’s backyard . . .
yep, I really starting to like where Mak’s going with this one . . .
and look - no typos![/quote]
Person =/= organism.
Seriously, you have to stop pretending you understand science.
Or anything at all for that matter.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
She prayed and fasted for 2 days.[/quote]
Really? While pregnant?
I thought life was sacred.[/quote]
Yeah, dammit - praying is harmful for life!! don’t you know anything!!
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Person =/= organism.
Seriously, you have to stop pretending you understand science.[/quote]
Ohhh, so a person cannot be classified as an organism . . . got ya. Man I am so glad I have your amazing expertise on hand to clarify these murky little issues and definitions . . .
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
She prayed and fasted for 2 days.[/quote]
Really? While pregnant?
I thought life was sacred.[/quote]
Yeah, dammit - praying is harmful for life!! don’t you know anything!![/quote]
Well, I can’t fault you for poor eyesight.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Or anything at all for that matter.[/quote]
Oohhh, you are soooo right. I need to stop pretending that I understand anything at all. After all, I can barely tie my boots or refill my turn signal fluid. I need to get me one of those seeing eye dogs to read your posts to me, so that I can better understand the shallows of your intellect in a deeper and more meaningful way. Are you planning on publishing any books in the near future? I mean what with your amazing insights and Hyuuge brain, you should really be telling the whole world what to do, instead of just little old me. . . .
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
She prayed and fasted for 2 days.[/quote]
Really? While pregnant?
I thought life was sacred.[/quote]
Yeah, dammit - praying is harmful for life!! don’t you know anything!![/quote]
Well, I can’t fault you for poor eyesight.[/quote]
Yep, I can see right through your BS every time . . . does that mean I have x-ray vision or just a good BS filter . . .
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
She prayed and fasted for 2 days.[/quote]
Really? While pregnant?
I thought life was sacred.[/quote]
Yeah, dammit - praying is harmful for life!! don’t you know anything!![/quote]
Well, I can’t fault you for poor eyesight.[/quote]
Yep, I can see right through your BS every time . . . does that mean I have x-ray vision or just a good BS filter . . . [/quote]
It means I’m not tearing into you for being unable to recognize that I bolded certain parts of the quoted text.
I don’t expect you to understand why either.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Look, let’s not beat around the bush here. You are the same individual organism that once resided in the womb.[/quote]
Really?[/quote]
Yep.[/quote]
Even the turnover of cells in our bodies… nope.[/quote]
right . . . because those replacement cells are in no connected with the cells that they replaced and do not function the same with the same system based on the same genetic coding - I mean after all, no one could ever get convicted of a crime committed a few years ago based on DNA evidence, because our bodies are completely different because those cells alive at the time have all been replaced by new cells - so even apart from a genetic POV, I’m techically not the same person who killed all those people and buried them Mak’s backyard . . .
yep, I really starting to like where Mak’s going with this one . . .
and look - no typos![/quote]
Person =/= organism.
Seriously, you have to stop pretending you understand science.[/quote]
Answer the question with a yes or no.
Let’s presume that since Mak is a good scientist, he’d say that the embryo is an organism. Life.
So let’s go to the next question.
The human embryo is a
A) Frog
B) Dog
C) Human
Choose one
[quote]Makavali wrote:
It means I’m not tearing into you for being unable to recognize that I bolded certain parts of the quoted text.
I don’t expect you to understand why either.[/quote]
LMAO - you tearing into me? for not paying attention to your “bolding” the word fasted? WHy would I pay attention to something that you obviously (by your post) have demonstrated that you do not understand? You obviously think fasting means not injesting any type of sustenance . . . which just goes to highlight your own ignorance . . . so no, I purposefully skipped it ans ridiculed you anyways . . .
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Let’s presume that since Mak is a good scientist, he’d say that the embryo is an organism. Life.
So let’s go to the next question.
The human embryo is a
A) Frog
B) Dog
C) Human
Choose one[/quote]
The question is not whether a human fetus is alive, or whether or not it is human.
The question is when a human becomes a person, and therefore deserves the natural rights of a person.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Let’s presume that since Mak is a good scientist, he’d say that the embryo is an organism. Life.
So let’s go to the next question.
The human embryo is a
A) Frog
B) Dog
C) Human
Choose one[/quote]
The question is not whether a human fetus is alive, or whether or not it is human.
The question is when a human becomes a person, and therefore deserves the natural rights of a person.[/quote]
Your statement would then suggest you’d pick C.
My next quesstion follows
Is this now established human life;
A) an individual human life?
B) One of the mother’s cells. Like a cell from a fingernail (commonly used).
Hint. A quick review of haploid (gametes) and diploid (the embryo), and a comparison of genome between embryo and pregnant mother would answer this.
Hang in there, guys. We draw to close to the end!
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Let’s presume that since Mak is a good scientist, he’d say that the embryo is an organism. Life.
So let’s go to the next question.
The human embryo is a
A) Frog
B) Dog
C) Human
Choose one[/quote]
The question is not whether a human fetus is alive, or whether or not it is human.
The question is when a human becomes a person, and therefore deserves the natural rights of a person.[/quote]
Why? What else does a fetus become? I’ve never seen a fetus be born as an end table or a bookcase. Certainly never seen one born as a cyborg - though I’m still holding out for that one . . . A human fetus is a human at an early life stage. We have no trouble understanding the life stages of every other species on the planet, but somehowwe can’t undertsnad our own?
It’s a patently ridiculous argument - an unborn fetus is merely the earliest life stages of a human being with all of the natural rights inherent upon its own existence. What? is there some forms the infant has to sign to gain its natural rights? maybe he needs to get a thorough background check and drving record . . .
come on, seriously? you’re really having trouble with this?
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
It means I’m not tearing into you for being unable to recognize that I bolded certain parts of the quoted text.
I don’t expect you to understand why either.[/quote]
LMAO - you tearing into me? for not paying attention to your “bolding” the word fasted? WHy would I pay attention to something that you obviously (by your post) have demonstrated that you do not understand? You obviously think fasting means not injesting any type of sustenance . . . which just goes to highlight your own ignorance . . . so no, I purposefully skipped it ans ridiculed you anyways . . .[/quote]
No, I guess you’re right. A pregnant woman fasting, that’s totally healthy for a developing baby.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
I’ve never seen a fetus be born as an end table or a bookcase.[/quote]
Where have I heard this type of argument before? Oh that’s right - “If humans are descneded from monkeys…”.
What a joke.