[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Please do not try to pretend that you have a working knowledge of DNA recombination.
[/quote]
Please do not try to pretend that you have a working knowledge of where DNA came from in the first place.
[quote]tuffloud wrote:
Why is it that Shaquille O’neill and Danny DeVito have such different skeletons, yet they are both human beings? Could it mean that Danny Devito is an “ape man” and Shaquille O’neill is an “evolved” super human? If this is so, why are they both living in the same time period? Shouldn’t these two humans be “millions” of years apart? Danny DeVito is 5’1 and Shaquille Oneill is 7’1. Gee, how can they both be humans when there skeletons are so different?
If “evolutionists” found these two men’s skeletons 5 thousand years later in two different parts of the world with todays “technology”, can you imagine the stories they would come up with. [/quote]
Actually, both skeletons would be correctly identified as to their species by the taxonomists. For reasons of the range of personal variability and differences in age, they are always forced to look at size-independent characteristics when making such identifications.
Andre the Giant’s skull might give them a turn, unless they knew about acromegaly, but they would correctly identify even his skeleton.
Ditto, chump.
[quote]tuffloud wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Please do not try to pretend that you have a working knowledge of DNA recombination.
Please do not try to pretend that you have a working knowledge of where DNA came from in the first place.
[/quote]
HAHAHA! But the critical difference between the two of us is that people like me aren’t afraid to look for an answer.
Creationism = Evolution HAS to be wrong, I don’t wanna be a monkey. Find as many problems with evolution as possible. Point out every gap in our currently incomplete knowledge and trumpet that as a failure of science.
But what happens when we fill those tiny little gaps in, buddy? What will you guys do then? Oh wait… I already know:
“The bible isn’t wrong, it’s metaphorically speaking about stuff in Genesis.”
Which is the actual truth, and you guys should have just started off with that to begin with. Then, we wouldn’t have to have this same retarded thread over and over again.
But seriously, I’m wondering: When you beat your head against a wall that many times, do you get a headache right away, or does it happen after you put your helmet back on?
[quote]vroom wrote:
Please do not try to pretend that you have a working knowledge of where DNA came from in the first place.
Ditto, chump.[/quote]
vroom,
He openly says that there is no God and he doesn’t believe. This eliminates the possibility that DNA came from God in his mind. I know that DNA came from God and believe it fully.
That is why I stated “Please do not try to pretend that you have a working knowledge of where DNA came from in the first place”.
Also, is your goal here to insult me personally? You have made numerous posts that have insulted me.
Everyone here knows that I have insulted nobody with names or disrespect.
Despite our differences, I have not even insulted Lothario or Endgamer with personal name calling.
lothario1132,
which tiny little gaps in the idea of human evolution are you refering to? Do you mean the enormous gaps that you will NEVER find?
It’s funny how you have found so many bones, yet you just can’t seem to come up with what you want. Those tiny little gaps that you talk, shouldn’t they have been found by now? At least just one skeleton? No?
[quote]This eliminates the possibility that DNA came from God in his mind. I know that DNA came from God and believe it fully.
[/quote]
He knows it couldn’t come from a god or gods the same way you know it does come from your god. You both have faith that your world view is the correct one. There is no scientific evidence to support the existance of a Creator, conversely there is no evidence that proves the non-existance of a Creator. The problem lies here though, when making a positive assertion, ie. There is a God, the burden of proof falls squarely on the person making the claim and by the very nature of diety, you cannot prove this. Same with the DNA, the only person posting so far who claims to know the precise origin of DNA is you, saying it comes from your god. The others are, for the most part saying ‘we don’t know but the scientific method seems like a reasonable way to figure it out.’
The burden of proof here is on you, to prove that your God created life and specifically crafted DNA. I’d ask for your proof of this but you don’t have any, none has ever been presented, that is not to rule out that it could be at some point, after all, science and the scientific method does allow for the introduction of new evidence and for the adjustment or total rethinking of a hypothesis unlike religious dogma.
I totally respect each individual’s right to believe in whatever they want to. There are times when faith in diety can be of great benefit both to the individual and to society, just as often it can be of great detriment to both indivuals and society as a whole as well. The current islamic jihad is a prime example of religion run amok, so were the Salem Witch trials, the crusades and anything associated with Scientology.
Evolution belongs in the science class, Creationism and Intelligent Design belong somewhere in the social sciences, Humanities, History, Philosophy perhaps. They are seperate things that satisfy totally seperate needs for mankind.
[quote]tuffloud wrote:
lothario1132,
which tiny little gaps in the idea of human evolution are you refering to? Do you mean the enormous gaps that you will NEVER find?[/quote]
You have not tried clicking on even a single link I posted. That’s okay, but if you actually had done this, you would learn that those HUGE gaps you are so fond of bringing up are tiny tiny tiny ones.
Just one click. Try the horse fossil record that I posted a ways back. Just that one. Click it and look for yourself… don’t take my word for it, do it yourself. After that, your inquisitive nature just might bring you to look around some more, and then…
My goodness, you just might discover that there is a tidal wave of evidence which washes the “magic poof there everything is” creationism idea right down the drain.
You also do not really understand what the fossil record is, and that’s okay too. I have linked to the taxonomy and fossil record website several times in this thread. We are restricted to plants and animals which have body parts that fossilize. Marginal species may not be found due to their scarcity, etc., etc.
And the fact that there are only so many paleontologists, and they only have so much money and resources, kinda makes the field one of long hours and lots of digging. It is apparent to us all that you do not have the capacity to appreciate what these scientists do for us. You are behaving just like the caricature of creationism I posted above. You will stick your fingers in your ears and sing LA LA LA LA I’M NOT LISTENING!! But the rest of us aren’t like that.
Have you ever done one of those table-sized picture puzzles? You know, the ones that come in a box with the picture of a windmill or flowers or a bridge or whatever? Every time one of our scientists finds another fossil of an early human in Ethiopia, every time we uncover an ancient village in Australia, we get one more piece of the puzzle to put on the table. I think the problem here is that you don’t realize that we’ve pretty much figured out what the puzzle is supposed to look like already. Even though all the pieces aren’t in place, we already have a pretty damn good idea.
The creationists don’t see it as a puzzle we need to do. Y’all think it came pre-assembled. Suit yourself. You guys don’t bother us until you start taking action to stop us. Then we have problems.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
lothario1132,
which tiny little gaps in the idea of human evolution are you refering to? Do you mean the enormous gaps that you will NEVER find?
You have not tried clicking on even a single link I posted. That’s okay, but if you actually had done this, you would learn that those HUGE gaps you are so fond of bringing up are tiny tiny tiny ones.
… [followed by further eloquent rebuke][/quote]
Applause.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
lothario1132,
which tiny little gaps in the idea of human evolution are you refering to? Do you mean the enormous gaps that you will NEVER find?
You have not tried clicking on even a single link I posted. That’s okay, but if you actually had done this, you would learn that those HUGE gaps you are so fond of bringing up are tiny tiny tiny ones.
Just one click. Try the horse fossil record that I posted a ways back. Just that one. Click it and look for yourself… don’t take my word for it, do it yourself. After that, your inquisitive nature just might bring you to look around some more, and then…
My goodness, you just might discover that there is a tidal wave of evidence which washes the “magic poof there everything is” creationism idea right down the drain.
It’s funny how you have found so many bones, yet you just can’t seem to come up with what you want. Those tiny little gaps that you talk, shouldn’t they have been found by now? At least just one skeleton? No?
You also do not really understand what the fossil record is, and that’s okay too. I have linked to the taxonomy and fossil record website several times in this thread. We are restricted to plants and animals which have body parts that fossilize. Marginal species may not be found due to their scarcity, etc., etc.
And the fact that there are only so many paleontologists, and they only have so much money and resources, kinda makes the field one of long hours and lots of digging. It is apparent to us all that you do not have the capacity to appreciate what these scientists do for us. You are behaving just like the caricature of creationism I posted above. You will stick your fingers in your ears and sing LA LA LA LA I’M NOT LISTENING!! But the rest of us aren’t like that.
Have you ever done one of those table-sized picture puzzles? You know, the ones that come in a box with the picture of a windmill or flowers or a bridge or whatever? Every time one of our scientists finds another fossil of an early human in Ethiopia, every time we uncover an ancient village in Australia, we get one more piece of the puzzle to put on the table. I think the problem here is that you don’t realize that we’ve pretty much figured out what the puzzle is supposed to look like already. Even though all the pieces aren’t in place, we already have a pretty damn good idea.
The creationists don’t see it as a puzzle we need to do. Y’all think it came pre-assembled. Suit yourself. You guys don’t bother us until you start taking action to stop us. Then we have problems.[/quote]
Lothario,
My beliefs aside for a second.
If everything is so definate like you say, why isn’t evolution excepted as a fact in the science community? If everything is spelled out so clearly in the fossil record, why is it still not a fact even in science?
Also, I was raised to believe in evolution. Aside from you thinking that I am an uneducated person, why do you suppose I believe that we were created now after being taught evolution for so many years? Please, no more insults.
[quote]tuffloud wrote:
Lothario,
My beliefs aside for a second.
If everything is so definate like you say, why isn’t evolution excepted as a fact in the science community? If everything is spelled out so clearly in the fossil record, why is it still not a fact even in science?[/quote]
It IS an accepted phenomenon in the science world, buddy. I honestly don’t understand how you can see this otherwise. Anybody… with even a lick of scientific sense… will look at the evidence and think:
“Well, I guess… given all this, evolution is a pretty common-sense, reasonable thing. There’s not much of a leap of faith left to make anymore.”
The only “scientists” who think evolution is bunk are not scientists at all, merely theologians with training in scientific fields who are the front guns of the creationist movement to try to discredit the obvious and accepted truth. These are the guys who come up with the young earth hypotheses which are debunked, and the world flood hypotheses which are debunked.
All because they cannot for some reason realize that the bible contains a great deal of metaphor… like this is some horrible thing. What is so bad about this? Metaphor is pretty damn cool. If it wasn’t for metaphor, we wouldn’t have poetry or imagery or persuasive analogies… literature would be incredibly boring.
I challenge you right now to think about this for just one second:
If you can accept the bible as containing metaphor, then your bible all of a sudden gains relevance in the modern world. What I mean by that is that even an avowed atheist such as myself can appreciate the contents of your book in the proper context if you guys would just drop the “bible is literal truth word for word straight from the lips of the Almighty” mantra you try to metaphorically (hehe) shove down everybody’s throats.
I cannot tell you why you have chosen to delude yourself. I do not mean that as an insult, just as an observation. Like I said before, you appear to be suffering from some idea that the bible MUST AT ALL COSTS be exact literal truth. Most of the religious people that I know don’t do this to themselves. Why would you toss your common sense away? Did it piss you off to be a normal rational person?
Maybe you think that you won’t be able to go to heaven? When you die, and you get to the pearly gates, St. Peter is going to ask you:
“So what do you think about evolution?”
You answer: “Seems pretty reasonable to me… AAAAAHHH!!!”
As he pulls the lever on the trap door to hell, and you fall down a glowing red pit into a lake of fire, St. Peter yells:
“HAH! God was fucking with you, you dumb asshole! There were no dinosaurs!Burn for all eternity, fool!”
Yeah. Makes sense. I better go find a bible… maybe I’ll go steal one from a hotel room or something.
[quote]tuffloud wrote:
If everything is spelled out so clearly in the fossil record, why is it still not a fact even in science?[/quote]
Because science never creates facts. Scientists can only create theories.
Maybe an example can help. We observe that gravitation operates, in fact, everywhere we have looked so far in the universe. When we can measure under controlled conditions we can verify Newton’s formula for gravitation, and even get values for the gravitational constant. These observations are facts.
That gravitation operates absolutely everywhere in exactly the same manner as it does near by us here, according to Newton’s formulation, and with the same gravitational constant, however, is just a theory, and it must remain a theory for all time. It can never be a fact.
Now, this particular theory is so useful to us in doing further “real science” - as you call it - that this theory may as well be a fact. We do not expect to see it violated in nature, until perhaps such time as we attain truly new means of examining nature.
And all of this is also the case with evolution.
It’s alright, you can stop helping now. We’re not committing any logical fallacies.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Yeah. Makes sense. I better go find a bible… maybe I’ll go steal one from a hotel room or something.[/quote]
Actually, I think I’ve heard the Gideons are overjoyed whenever any of their Bibles walk out with customers.
Lothario,
Why can’t you just give me a straight answer? Here, it can’t get any easier than this:
True or False - human evolution is fact.
I’ve explained the differences between scientific laws and scientific theorems, I can do it again if you like. Theories hold as much weight as laws but due to their complexity and the scientists willingness to remain open minded they don’t close the book on the bigger issues. The Law of Gravity is simply that objects fall towards the earth. There have been numerous theories as to the exact process that causes this to happen.
Newton’s Law of universal gravitation says every object in the Universe attracts every other object with a force directed along the line of centers for the two objects that is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the separation between the two objects.
This theory works great till you start looking at strong graviational forces and then along comes Einstein with his theory of general relativity which states that the presence of mass, energy, and momentum causes spacetime to become curved. Because of this curvature, the paths that objects in inertial motion follow can “deviate” or change direction over time. This deviation appears to us as an acceleration towards massive objects, which Newton characterized as being gravity. In general relativity however, this acceleration or free fall is actually inertial motion. So objects in a gravitational field appear to fall at the same rate due to their being in inertial motion while the observer is the one being accelerated.
Gravity is a Law, it happens, Newton’s Theory, while it worked for a while, doesn’t hold up under all circumstances so we find a better theory, Einstein’s theory of general relativity. See how this works?
There is not a single real scientist, anywhere who will tell you that Creation as outlined in the Christian faith is the end all be all of our origins. If he’s willing to make that statement then he’s not following the scientific method, he’s not a scientists, he’s a hack wearing a lab coat over his crucifix.
Can we expect scientific statements made in the Bible to be accurate?
The Bible says, “Thy word is true from the beginning.” Psalm 119:160. “The Spirit . . . will guide you into all truth.” John 16:13.
Answer: Yes, the Bible is true. The Holy Spirit, who guided the Bible writers, always speaks the truth. Here are a few Bible statements that have been confirmed by science:
A. “He . . . hangeth the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7. This scientific fact is from Job, the Bible’s oldest book.
B. “He . . . sitteth upon the circle of the earth.” Isaiah 40:22. The Bible said the earth is round centuries before man found out.
C. “To make the weight for the winds.” Job 28:25. Long before scientists knew, God said air has weight.
D. “By Him [Jesus] all things consist.” Colossians 1:17. The word “consist” here literally means “hold together” or “cohere.” Many Bible translations put it “hold together.” This is the answer to the nuclear physicists’ worrisome question about the atom. The real mystery of the atom does not involve its benumbing mega-power, but rather, “Why doesn’t the atom fly apart?” Scientific knowledge says it should, but it doesn’t. Some scientists are wondering what puzzling power, completely unknown to them, is holding it together. The Bible says that mysterious power is the Creator, God Himself.
stated that the presence of mass, energy, and momentum causes spacetime to become curved. Because of this curvature, the paths that objects in inertial motion follow can “deviate” or change direction over time. This deviation appears to us as an acceleration towards massive objects, which Newton characterized as being gravity. In general relativity however, this acceleration or free fall is actually inertial motion. So objects in a gravitational field appear to fall at the same rate due to their being in inertial motion while the observer is the one being accelerated.
Lothario,
You just can’t seem to answer my question. I’ll make it really simply, a one word answer.
Human evolution in the science community is proven to be fact. True or False.
What crucial world happenings have brought the power and appeal of the Bible into sharp focus?
When communism collapsed, its adherents turned to the Bible as
the only hope for people.
Answer: The failure and collapse of communism and the weakening and inconsistency of the theory of evolution have spotlighted the Bible.
Note: The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics tried communism, atheism, and also evolution, which is Marxism’s number one tenet. They all failed. The resultant new democracies realize that only one thing will work, and they are almost with one voice crying out to Christendom: “Bring us the Bible and Christian preaching and teaching. We must now build on the unshakable foundation of prayer and the Christian faith. Nothing else compares. Nor will anything else answer life’s great questions and bring peace to the hearts of our people. Please don’t keep us waiting! We desperately want and need the Bible, God, and Christianity now.” Once again, God’s Word triumphs.
Evolution, like communism, is losing its grip and credibility. We must remember that it is nothing more than an unproved, shaky theory. We will mention three items only:
True science is always in harmony with the Bible because God is the author of both.
-
Robert Gentry’s book Creation’s Tiny Mystery has unsettled many evolutionists with its apparent, clear evidence of instant creation. (Mystery in the Rocks, an easy-to-understand book based on his research, may be purchased from Amazing Facts.)
-
Molecular biology’s recent demonstration that the single cell is vastly complex makes the accidental origin of life in a single cell a mathematical absurdity.
-
The widely different ages now being assigned to the Grand Canyon layers by current scientific measurements, as opposed to those assigned previously, make evolutionists and their prior measurements seem reckless and irresponsible. The atheistic theory of evolution that humans and apes came from common ancestors scorns the concept that people were created in the image of God. It denies the existence of God, totally disavows Jesus as Saviour, negates the Bible, and ridicules the truth of an eternal home in heaven. Satan loves the evolution theory because it destroys the credibility of salvation. Communists are learning. Will we?
[quote]tuffloud wrote:
Lothario,
You just can’t seem to answer my question. I’ll make it really simply, a one word answer.
Human evolution in the science community is proven to be fact. True or False.[/quote]
I’m at work right now. Give me a second, okay?
An answer to your question:
Evolution, in the science community, is the most tangible reason for the origin of species, the development of life over time, and the best possible explanation for how and why the human being came to be.
It is not a fact in the scientific sense, but in common sense. There is a difference between the two, which you seem to not understand. The mechanism to describe Gravity, as pointed out by endgamer and Xvim, is not even a so-called FACT in the scientific sense, and yet, if I let go of my beer, it will drop on the ground and I will be pissed off. Just like if I let some planet in the right conditions somewhere hang around for a few billion years, I will come back and find life everywhere. It happens. What we are trying to figure out, much like Newton and Einstein, is how exactly it does.
As I have posted a bunch of other times, there is some debate still raging in the genetic research fields about this. Whether or not evolution actually takes place is a given.
This is the part where I say “Duh!”