Evolution vs. Creation

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
203

isn’t there a possibility that the theory of creation and evolution can coexist? Think about it, maybe one of God’s so called ‘days’ isn’t exactly the same time period as ours, perhaps it’s millions upon millions of our days. Anyone who says otherwise is being rash and jumping to conclusions they do not know, it’s not that this theory is undeniably true, but it’s a nice way to be able to let both theories co-exist.

It makes sense though, God creates all animals first, and then humans. Why not derive people which symbolize Himself from that which he created? Why not show an incredible link between humanity and nature? If indeed God is a vessel of loving, this would make sense, as he would want us to love not only our own kind, but the nature that He created as well. He would want us to understand as much as fathomable with science. He probably even doesn’t mind the entire “creation vs evolution” debate because it keeps the world thinking, so that one day they can realize the true truth, and find that it comes from both theories, maybe not the way I suggested, but hey, no one else has a rational explanation to intermingle that which we know and that which we think we know.

204

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
Evidence For A Young Earth

? James Ussher (1581?1656) was Archbishop of Armagh, the highest position in the Irish Anglican Church, a product of the Reformation in England. He was also a noted historian and Hebrew scholar, highly regarded throughout Britain, both by kings and revolutionaries. Ussher was recognized as one of the greatest scholars of his time, being an expert on Semitic languages and ancient history. According to his calculations in the early 1600s, the Earth is really only about 6,000 years old. Usher, a great scholar, knew when Nebuchadnezzar lived, and he worked his way backwards through the genealogies and came up with a creation date of 4004 BC. Evolutionist Stephen J. Gould stated that if Bishop Usher was right about the Bible being true, then the date would be correct.

? Independently, Johannes Kepler (1571?1630), who formulated the laws of planetary motion, calculated a creation date of 3992 BC. Sir Isaac Newton (1643?1727), is widely regarded as the greatest scientist of all time, but he wrote more on biblical history. He vigorously defended a creation date of about 4,000 BC.

? The old ages for the Earth come primarily from the ages of rocks, which evolutionists date by the presumed ages of the fossils in them. Radioactive measurements of rocks are based on assumptions that were chosen to make the radioactive measurements agree with the presumed ages of the fossils.

? Naturalists choose an “index fossil,” one that is in a certain layer and date it by when they think it evolved - not by Carbon-14 dating, nor potassium-argon, nor by uranium-lead dating. They date the fossil by when they think it evolved. Then they date the rock by the fossil, and then they prove evolution by the date on the rock. This is circular reasoning.

? They cling to these assumptions even though there is a lot of scientific evidence for a young Earth.

? Human population can be extrapolated backwards to see how long it would have taken to achieve present-day numbers. Using conservative growth figures of one-half percent per year, Earth’s population would have been eight people about 5,000 years ago, comparing very well with the number of people on Noah’s Ark. Based on evolution’s claim for the origin of man, the same ? percent growth calculation for the human race results in a huge present day population that can not be justified by the fossil record or current statistics.

? Rivers pour tons of material every year into the Earth’s oceans. Scientists know with a fair degree of accuracy the quantity of each element’s influx as well as the current concentration of these elements in the oceans. By simple division, they can calculate the time it took to reach present levels, even accounting for sedimentation and dissipation. None of these elements give an age of the Earth even coming close to billion of years.

? Polystratic trees are fossil trees that extend through several “strata” of rock, sometimes penetrating 20 feet deep. According to evolutionists, a 20 foot deposit of rock would take place slowly and uniformly, over a great many years. However, the tops of such tree trunks would have decayed long before the new rock layers had a chance to surround them. At Katherine Hill Bay, Australia, a fossilized tree can be seen extending over twelve feet, through several sedimentary layers. This tree is testimony to the catastrophic and rapid burial that must have taken place.

? When the carbon-14 test was first created, scientists used the process to date many different things including oil and coal. Tests of these two substances by this method revealed them to be only several thousand years old instead of millions of years old, as predicted by evolutionary theory. Once this method was shown to predict recent dates for oil and coal, scientists stopped dating oil and coal using this method.

? Laboratory and field research has demonstrated that coal is formed rapidly and in vast quantities. Modern laboratories can duplicate the formation of coal formation in a matter of days - or even hours. Furthermore, massive seams of coal in the Earth remain undiluted by influxes of clay and other impurities before they thicken.

? The Biblical account of Noah’s Flood’s description of the fountains of the great deep breaking up strongly indicates volcanic activity in the pre-Flood basins. This would have provided several of the key factors needed for the production of coal, along with an explanation of how the process could have occurred at such a rapid pace.

? The pressure in modern day oil fields is too high for them to be very old. Current estimates indicate that the longest a rock layer could keep oil under pressure would be 100,000 years. Oil is simply not as old as evolutionists’ claim.

? It is well known that the interior of the Earth is very hot. For each mile you descend, the temperature increases by 118 degrees Fahrenheit. The Earth is a thousand miles in diameter; the core is so hot that the rocks are molten. Yet as Earth passes through the extreme cold of outer space, it’s losing its heat. Even with the heat it receives from the sun, Earth’s net heat loss is 1027 calories per second. This means that if it started at 190 degrees Fahrenheit on the surface, Earth would have been frozen stone cold to the center in the first 40 million years. If it were four billion years old, it should have been a huge sphere of ice over 100 times by now.

? Earth’s spin is slowing down at a rate of one third of a second every year. Extrapolating this back billions of years, we obtain an unreasonable spinning speed for the Earth.

? Earth’s magnetic field has been measured since 1835. It is growing weaker and the rate at which it is growing weaker has been calculated. If we extrapolate backwards, even to 20,000 BC, the magnetic field would have been so strong Earth would have been like a star and nothing could have lived here. Extrapolating further back, it would have been so strong it would have crushed the surface of the Earth in on itself.

? Evolutionists say that the magnetic field of the Earth has shifted from positive to negative at times - that’s how it keeps going. But observations of the sun’s magnetic field’s changing from positive to negative show it loses more energy each time instead of gaining energy. Applying the same criteria to the magnetic field of the Earth, we see is that it drops the age of our planet to about six to eight thousand years.

? Like a giant vacuum cleaner, the sun sweeps up almost 100,000 tons of inflow per day. The sun’s radiation pressure also pushes small, dust particles outward into space. This phenomenon is known as the Poynting-Robertson effect. If the solar system is really billions of years old, then the solar system should have been swept clean by now. Unfortunately for evolutionists, tons of space dust remain in our solar system.

? When spiral galaxies make one full turn they leave behind distinctive pairs of arms because the interior stars move around faster than the outer stars. These galaxies are supposed to make one full turn every hundred million years meaning they should have a pair of arms for every 100 million years. If the Earth is five billion years old, galaxies should have so many arms they couldn’t be counted. But astronomers haven’t been able to find a galaxy with more than three pairs of arms, meaning they haven’t been able to find one that’s even half a billion years old.

? A star cluster contains hundreds or thousands of stars moving, as one author put it, “like a swarm of bees,” held together by gravity. But in some clusters, the stars are moving so fast that they could not have held together for millions or billions of years. Star clusters tell us that the age of the universe should be measured in thousands of years.

? When big stars run out of fuel, they explode. Some of these “super nova remnants” are visible from the Earth. According to astronomical theory, in galaxies of our size, approximately 7,250 super nova remnants should be visible. Using the creationist age of the galaxy, we should expect to find between 125 and 200 super nova remnants. The actual number of super nova remnants visible from the Earth is 205, which is very close to the creationist numbers.

By the way, everyone keeps calling me a “creationist”. I am a “Christian”. I go by what the Bible says. Just because I believe that we were “created” doesn’t mean that I agree with what all “creationists” think. I often disagree with what certain “creationists” think and say.

There are “evolutionists” that have different opinions and ideas. Just because one “evolutionist” says something doesn’t mean that all the other “evolutionists” agree with the same opinion.

[/quote]

You are rehashing oldyoung earth creationist arguments that have been discredited 20+years ago. It is notable that the young earth creationists have not refined their “theories” (i use that term loosely) or done anything to advance their “science” in any menaingful way. No mainstream geologist buys in to any of that crap.

I also find it funny that you put Isaac Newtons calculation at the beginning of your post… what methods did he have available to him during his lifetime that would allow him to make a scientific calculation of the age of the earth?

Every one of your young earth arguments (+ several others) are debunked here-

It is pretty much pointless to argue with a creationist- all evidence for evolution is dismissed, no matter how strong it is. They also continue to repeat the same arguments no matter how fallacious tehy are and no matter how many times they are debunked (a perfect example is the “Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics” argument. This is based upon a fundamental misunderstanding of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and no physicist agrees with this flawed analysis. Yet creationists continue to use it. Why?)

205

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
If you claim to no so much about everthing. Why don’t you try proving the Bible wrong? I have looked at both sides. I was raised by evolution. Have you even cracked a Bible open? Why do you just automatically assume everything in the Bible is false?[/quote]

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Wrong, there is only one light, the sun. The moon merely reflects.

DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat. But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, And every raven after his kind, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the BAT.

Wrong, a bat is not a bird.

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Wrong, hares do not chew cud.

LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Wrong, insects have six feet, not four.

PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Wrong, snails don’t melt. (Unless you pour salt on them!)

(Gen 22:1)“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.”

God tempts someone.

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (James 1:13)

God does not tempt anyone. Which is it?

So, there, happy now?

206

[quote]tuffloud wrote:

If you claim to no so much about everthing. Why don’t you try proving the Bible wrong? I have looked at both sides. I was raised by evolution. Have you even cracked a Bible open? Why do you just automatically assume everything in the Bible is false?[/quote]

Obviously you won’t look at both sides, since every time you ask wuestions like “give just one example of a new species being formed!” or “where are the transitional fossils” and you are given an answer, you simply ignore it.

As for proving your theories wrong, creationists don’t put out an actual coherent, falsifiable theory, so that can be difficult. Can you answer teh question I posted earlier attempting to clarify what the creationist “theory” actually is? However, the assertion that "the bible must be interpreted literally, and the history of man is EXACTLY as it is written in the bible can be falsified.

A few problems with a "
literalist" interpretation of the bible:

1.) Why do men and women have the same number of ribs?

2.) How did noah fit every species of animal in an ark of the dimensions in the bible? How were all of them caged and fed? Were dinosaurs and other extinct species on the ark as well?

3.) Why doesn’t geological evidence support the throry of a catostrophic worldwide flood? What were the mechanisms of this flood? Where did the water come from?

4.) Where is the tower of Babel located? If different languages suddenly appeared as a punishment from god, why are some languages derivative and similar to each other depending on geographical locations of people? Why aren’t all languages equally unique?

Those are just a few things off of the top of my head…

207

[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
If you claim to no so much about everthing. Why don’t you try proving the Bible wrong? I have looked at both sides. I was raised by evolution. Have you even cracked a Bible open? Why do you just automatically assume everything in the Bible is false?

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Wrong, there is only one light, the
sun. The moon merely reflects.

The light from the moon is an effect of the light of the sun

DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat. But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, And every raven after his kind, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the BAT.

Wrong, a bat is not a bird.

True bats are mammals but science evolves .When I was in school the were two kingdoms (Plant) and (Animal) now there are six

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Wrong, hares do not chew cud.

Too close to call(Look it up)

LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Wrong, insects have six feet, not four.

Maybe the creeping thing are extinct. Maybe it is a misprint somwhere along the line.

PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Wrong, snails don’t melt. (Unless you pour salt on them!)

???

(Gen 22:1)“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.”

God tempts someone.

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (James 1:13)

God does not tempt anyone. Which is it?

So, there, happy now?

[/quote]

God did temp Abraham.

I think it would be foolish to totally discount the bible. It was written a long time ago. And I am sure it has some flaws due to translation. But if for no other reason it is a very good source of history. What other source education do you have? That is as old?

I do not know if it was Charles Manson or a Hollywood writer, but I heard Manson said ?the Locust that had stingers like bees were Helicopters.? He said the? the angles that rode on chariots that rumbled with thunder were the Hells Angels?. He said? the four guards with breastplates of Iron were the Beatles ?. It is an interesting interpretation of Revelations. But I believe that is how a lot of the bible was written.

208

[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
So stop saying that evolusion is more scientific than creation, because it currently is not. They are both the same. You just have more FAITH in one theory over the other. THAT my friend is religion!

You can’t even spell “fossil”, why should I bandy conclusions with you? I don’t care who told you this garbage, they basically lied. There is beaucoup evidence. Perhaps you hadn’t yet read my later post.[/quote]

Sorry sport, just because you believe it doesn’t make it true. The fact that there is no evidence whatsoever of intermediate species proves the marco-evolution hypothesis false. You can have all the rhetoric you want about this, but you still come up short.

Time to revise the disproved hypothesis or join the church of Darwin, because faith is all you have to go on.

209

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Sorry sport, just because you believe it doesn’t make it true.
[/quote]

You mean, just because there is evidence that doesn’t make it true?

210

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
endgamer711 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
So stop saying that evolusion is more scientific than creation, because it currently is not. They are both the same. You just have more FAITH in one theory over the other. THAT my friend is religion!

You can’t even spell “fossil”, why should I bandy conclusions with you? I don’t care who told you this garbage, they basically lied. There is beaucoup evidence. Perhaps you hadn’t yet read my later post.

Sorry sport, just because you believe it doesn’t make it true. The fact that there is no evidence whatsoever of intermediate species proves the marco-evolution hypothesis false. You can have all the rhetoric you want about this, but you still come up short.

Time to revise the disproved hypothesis or join the church of Darwin, because faith is all you have to go on.
[/quote]

There is actually a whole crapload of evidence of intermediate species. I posted a link to a large compilation of examples transitional fossils. I am probably wasting my time because no amount of eveidence will make you stop saying that “there is no evidence” and “evolution is disproven.” Typical creationist rhetoric: ignore all contradictory evidence, repeat the same fallacious arguments ad nauseum.

211

Maybe the little bastards evolved…

212

[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
tuffloud wrote:
If you claim to no so much about everthing. Why don’t you try proving the Bible wrong? I have looked at both sides. I was raised by evolution. Have you even cracked a Bible open? Why do you just automatically assume everything in the Bible is false?

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Wrong, there is only one light, the sun. The moon merely reflects.

DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat. But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, And every raven after his kind, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the BAT.

Wrong, a bat is not a bird.

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Wrong, hares do not chew cud.

LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind. But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Wrong, insects have six feet, not four.

PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Wrong, snails don’t melt. (Unless you pour salt on them!)

(Gen 22:1)“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.”

God tempts someone.

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (James 1:13)

God does not tempt anyone. Which is it?

So, there, happy now?

[/quote]

Do you really think that you have proven the Bible wrong with these pathetic attempts?

The Bible was not written recently. The people spoke different and used different symbols and terminology. Do you really beleive that they spoke just like us?

Do you think a technical scientific explanation is going to be given to someone living in that time who has no science background? Please! To a man living in that time, there WAS a light during the day and a light at night. Just because we have science now to figure out the technicalities, doesn’t mean that you should discredit what the Bible is REALLY saying.

The bottom line is, you have a closed mind and you are not trying to hear anything the Bible is saying.

These 10 Bible prophecies were fulfilled after 1948, when Israel became an independent country for the second time in history. These prophecies find fulfillment in Israel’s stunning military victories and in its transition from a desert wasteland to a comparatively prosperous nation.

  1. Israel will ultimately prevail over its enemies
    Bible passage: Isaiah 41:12-14
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 41:12-14, the prophet proclaimed that the tiny nation of Israel ultimately will prevail over its enemies, and that although its enemies will cease to exist one day, Israel will survive. This prophecy is interesting from an historical perspective. The country of Israel has been conquered and destroyed at different times by very powerful nations and empires, such as Assyria, Babylon and the Roman Empire. Those conquests led to the exile and worldwide dispersion of the people of Israel, and to the desolation of the land of Israel. Even so, Israel is again a sovereign nation today, and the empires of Assyria, Babylon and ancient Rome have vanished long ago. The Nazis tried to destroy the people of Israel during the 1940s. But that decade saw the rebirth of the county of Israel and the destruction of the Nazi empire. From the perspective of various Christian scholars, this prophecy has found partial fulfillment so far, and will be completely fulfilled in the future when all enemies of Israel are destroyed.

Isaiah 41:12-14
Though you search for your enemies, you will not find them. Those who wage war against you will be as nothing at all. For I am the Lord, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you. Do not be afraid, O worm Jacob, O little Israel, for I myself will help you," declares the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

  1. The ruins of Israel would be rebuilt
    Bible passage: Amos 9:11, 13
    Written: about 750 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Amos 9:11, 13, the prophet said that God would restore the land of David. King David ruled Israel from about 1010 BC to about 970 BC. During that time, Israel was a united and sovereign nation. Afterwards, the land was divided into two kingdoms and later conquered by a succession of world powers. For much of the past 2000 years, the people of Israel have been living in exile in countries around the world, and the land of Israel has been in a state of ruin. During the past two centuries, however, many Jews have returned from exile and have rebuilt and reconditioned much of the land of Israel. The soil is again productive, producing food exports for many countries. And the nation is again sovereign and united.

Amos 9:11, 13
"In that day I will restore David’s fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be,‘’ ? “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills.”

  1. Ezekiel prophesied prosperity for a restored Israel
    Bible passage: Ezekiel 36:11
    Written: between 593-571 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Ezekiel 36:11, the prophet said that there would come a time when Israel would be more prosperous than it was in the past. The Bible describes Israel as being a prosperous nation during the time of King David and King Solomon about 3000 years ago. But, Ezekiel knew a very different Israel. In Ezekiel’s day (he lived about 2600 years ago), the northern part of the land had been decimated by the Assyrians, and the southern part, called Judah, was being destroyed by the Babylonians. The land of Israel suffered greatly, falling into a state of poverty and desolation that would last for many centuries. But today, Israel again is a sovereign nation. And it is a prosperous nation. In 1999, Israel had the highest per capita Gross Domestic Product of any nearby country, even though the surrounding countries have many oil resources.

Ezekiel 36:11
I will increase the number of men and animals upon you, and they will be fruitful and become numerous. I will settle people on you as in the past and will make you prosper more than before. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

  1. Trees would flourish again in a desolate Israel
    Bible passage: Isaiah 41:18-20
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 41:18-20, the prophet’s talk of a future restoration of Israel coincides with an occurrence in modern Israel - the construction of a vast irrigation system to improve farming. The lack of available water, including rain, is one reason why Israel had been a desolate, unproductive land during much of the past 2000 years. But, during the 1900s, when many Jews returned to their ancient homeland, they built a network of irrigation systems. And during the past century, more than 200 million trees have been planted in Israel.

Isaiah 41:18-20
I will make rivers flow on barren heights, and springs within the valleys. I will turn the desert into pools of water, and the parched ground into springs. I will put in the desert the cedar and the acacia, the myrtle and the olive. I will set pines in the wasteland, the fir and the cypress together, so that people may see and know, may consider and understand, that the hand of the Lord has done this, that the Holy One of Israel has created it.

Note: The Jewish National Fund web site, at www.jnf.org, has information about how people can contribute to the effort to reforest Israel.

  1. Isaiah said Israel’s fruit would fill the world
    Bible passage: Isaiah 27:6
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 27:6, the prophet said Israel would one day blossom and fill the world with fruit. This prophecy has been at least partially fulfilled so far, literally and spiritually. Today, the land of Israel, which had been barren for centuries, is a leading producer of agricultural products, exporting food to many countries. This prophecy also has been fulfilled spiritually with the worldwide spread of Christianity, which began with Jesus in Israel.

Isaiah 27:6
In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit.

  1. Jerusalem would become the world’s most important religious site
    Bible passage: Micah 4:1
    Written: sometime between 750-686 BC
    Fulfilled: Partially in modern times
    In Micah 4:1, the prophet said that the Temple mount in Jerusalem would become the focal point of the world. Various Christian scholars regard this as a prophecy that is to be fulfilled in the future. But it is interesting to note that Jerusalem is, and has been for centuries, the world’s most important religious site. Christians and Jews have always regarded the city as important. Followers of Islam later adopted Jerusalem as an important city in their beliefs. No other city in the world is a religious focal point to as many people.

Micah 4:1
In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.

  1. Egypt would never again rule over nations
    Bible passage: Ezekiel 29:15
    Written: between 593-571 BC
    Fulfilled: 1967, etc.
    In Ezekiel 29:15, the prophet says that Egypt would recover from a desolation (perhaps Babylon’s attack about 2600 years ago), but that it would never again rule over other nations. Up until the time of Ezekiel, Egypt had been a world power for centuries, dominating many nations, including Israel. But for most of the past 2500 years, Egypt has been controlled by foreign powers, including the Romans, Ottomans and Europeans. Today, Egypt is an independent nation again. In 1948, 1967 and 1973, Egypt tried to dominate Israel but was unsuccessful each time, despite the fact that Egypt is 10 times larger than Israel. Egypt today, in many respects, is an impressive nation. But since the time of Ezekiel, it no longer rules over other nations.

Ezekiel 29:15
? I will make it so weak that it will never again rule over the nations.

  1. Zechariah prophesied the Jews return to Jerusalem
    Bible passage: Zechariah 8:7-8
    Written: between 520 and 518 BC
    Fulfilled: 1967, etc.
    In Zechariah 8:7-8, the prophet said God would bring the Jews from exile back to their homeland (Israel) and that they would be able to live in the city of Jerusalem again. This prophecy has been fulfilled more than once. About 2600 years ago, Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and took many Jews as captives to Babylon. But many Jews later returned from Babylon. The Jews rebuilt Jerusalem but the city was destroyed about 1900 years ago by the Romans. The Romans killed more than 1 million Jews and forced many more into exile. And, the Romans banned Jews from living in Jerusalem. More than 1800 years passed before the Jews had control of Jerusalem again. They reclaimed control of their ancient capital during the Six Day War of 1967.

Zechariah 8:7-8
This is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west. I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.”

  1. Israel’s deserts will become like the Garden of Eden
    Bible passage: Isaiah 51:3
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: Being fulfilled now
    In Isaiah 51:3, the prophet said that God will restore Israel and make it a paradise, like the garden of Eden. This foreshadows what is currently happening in Israel. The Jews have been irrigating, cultivating and reconditioning the land during much of the 1900s. Many of the country’s swamps, which had been infested with malaria, have been converted into farmland. And water from the Sea of Galilee has been channeled through portions of the deserts, allowing some of the deserts to bloom. Much work remains, but parts of Israel are blooming again. Although it was described as a wasteland as recently as the late 1800s, Israel is now a food source for many countries. And at least 200 million of trees have been planted there during the past century.

Isaiah 51:3
The Lord will surely comfort Zion and will look with compassion on all her ruins; he will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the Lord. Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing.

  1. Isaiah foretold of the worldwide return of Jews to Israel
    Bible passage: Isaiah 43:5-6
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 43:5-6, the prophet said that the people of Israel would return to their homeland from the east, the west, the north and the south. Isaiah lived 2700 years ago. Beginning at that time, a succession of empires conquered the land of Israel and forced many into exile. This led to a worldwide scattering of Jews. But, during the past century, millions have returned to Israel.

From the east: Many Jews living in Middle East countries moved to Israel during the 1900s. After Israel reclaimed independence in 1948, more Jews moved to their ancient homeland after being forced out of various Arab countries in which they had been living for centuries.

From the west: During the mid-1900s, hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West (Europe and the United States) began moving to Israel to escape various persecutions, most notably, the Holocaust in Nazi Germany.

From the north: Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the former Soviet Union have moved to Israel since the 1980s.

From the south: During the 1980s and 1990s, Israel struck a deal with Ethiopia’s communist government to allow Jews of Ethiopia to move to Israel. On the weekend of May 25, 1991, for example, 14,500 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel.

Isaiah’s prophecy was also correct in saying that the north (Russia) and the south (Ethiopia) would have to be persuaded to allow their Jews to move to Israel. Many countries pressured Russia for years before it began to allow its Jews to leave. And Ethiopia had to be paid a ransom to allow its Jews to leave.

Isaiah’s prophecy was also correct in saying that the Jews would return “from the ends of the earth,” and Isaiah said that many centuries before the Jews had been scattered to the ends of the earth. During the past 100 years, Jews living as far east as China, as far west as the West Coast of the United States, as far north as Scandinavia, and as far south as South Africa, Australia and South America, have moved to Israel.

Isaiah 43:5-6
“Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, Give them up!' and to the south, Do not hold them back.’ Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth?”

Do you see, you have to seek the answers in the scripture. “Seek and you shall find”.

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[quote]tuffloud wrote:
JonP wrote:
Anyone else notice that creationists never try and “prove” creation but instead try and bring down evolution instead? Do they not realize that even if they somehow disproved evolution that there still isn’t any evidence to support creation?

The problem is that you are blind and close minded.

Look all around you. Your proof that God created us is all around you. You breathing air into your lungs is proof. Think about it.

Evolutionists try to argue that people that believe in creation are not logical. Well if they are so logical, then they should explain to me where something as undeniably amazing as DNA came from. DNA is so far beyond human comprehension and nobody can deny that. How can anyone possibly deny that there is not intelligent design in DNA?

I have given my answer to where it came from - God. God created it all. Why can’t scientists create one simple cell? Why? Because God is the only one that can do it, period.

Intelligent design = God

God is the logical answer.

[/quote]

Tuffload
Do you believe the bible in the literal sense? Do you believe the Bible speaks in Symbolism, Analogies or metaphorically? I believe in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. But how he did it is a Metaphor.

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These 10 Bible prophecies said that Israel would become a country, that it would be destroyed, that its people would be scattered worldwide and persecuted, that they would have a worldwide impact, and that they would return to Israel. Each of these prophecies have been fulfilled or are being fulfilled.

  1. Abraham’s descendants would have their own country
    Bible passage: Genesis 15:18
    Written: perhaps 1400 BC
    Fulfilled: 1400 BC and in 1948
    The Bible?s book of Genesis explains that about 4000 years ago, the Lord found a man who had strong faith. That man?s name was Abraham. In Genesis 12:1-3, the Lord calls out to Abraham and chooses to reward him.

In Genesis 15:18, the Lord said that Abraham?s descendants would have their own country, and that this country would be between the river of Egypt and the Euphrates River. (People sometimes call this the Promised Land.)

Genesis also explains that this promise of land to the descendants of Abraham was inherited by Abraham?s son, Isaac, and then by Abraham?s grandson, Jacob. Jacob is the father of the 12 Tribes of Israel. (This web site uses the terms Jews, Israelites, people of Israel, and Hebrews, interchangeably.)

This prophecy of nationhood has been fulfilled more than once. About 3400 years ago, the Hebrew descendants of Abraham first established Israel. The Bible?s book of Joshua explains how Joshua led the Israelites into the land that had been promised to them, as descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and established the nation of Israel.

The nation of Israel was later divided into two kingdoms, called Judah and Israel, about 2900 years ago. The kingdom of Israel lost its independence when it was conquered by Assyria about 2700 years ago. Judah lost its independence about 2600 years ago when it was conquered by Babylon.

Then, about 2000 years ago, the Romans scattered the Jews (or Israelites, or Hebrews) throughout the Roman Empire.

But, in 1948, after many Jews from around the world had returned to the land of Israel, the Jews issued a declaration of independence.

That was the first time in 2900 years that Israel was both united and independent.

Genesis 15:18
On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates?”

  1. Jacob saw a vision of Israel’s future
    Bible passage: Genesis 28:10-15
    Written: perhaps 1400 BC
    Fulfilled: Throughout history
    In Genesis 28:10-15, the Bible says that Jacob, who lived about 4000 years ago, received a vision from God about the future of his descendants (the Israelites, who today are commonly called “Jews”). The vision accurately foretold their future. Here is our summary:
  2. Jacob’s descendants would have Israel as their own country. (Gen. 28:13). This was fulfilled about 3400 years ago when the Israelites first established Israel.
  3. The Israelites would be like dust, spreading out to the east, west, north and south. (Gen. 28:14). Throughout history, the Jews have been scattered worldwide. They are the first and only group of people to be scattered worldwide.
  4. The Israelites would have a worldwide impact. (Gen. 28:14). Jews have had a tremendous worldwide impact in science, art, literature, economics, music and theology. The worldwide spread of Christianity began 2000 years ago by Jews who were followers of Jesus.
  5. Jacob?s descendants would be brought back to Israel. (Gen. 28:15). This began to be fulfilled during the late 1800s when many Jews worldwide began returning to their ancient homeland. They re-established Israel’s independence in 1948.

Genesis 28:10-15
Jacob … had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There above it stood the Lord, and he said: “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”

  1. Counting Abraham’s descendants would be like counting the stars
    Bible passage: Genesis 15:5
    Written: perhaps 1400 BC
    Fulfilled: Throughout history
    In Genesis 15:5, the Bible said that Abraham would have many descendants and that counting them would be like counting the stars. Today, scientists say it is impossible to count the stars because the universe is too vast. Today, we also know that counting Abraham’s descendants is also impossible. There are about 20 million Jews in the world today. But, it is impossible to know how many other people today are descendants of Abraham because many of the Israelites were scattered by Assyria during ancient times and history has lost track of them.

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of this prophecy is that Abraham, today, is still widely revered as being the father of many descendants. That in itself is unusual. Very few, if any, other people from ancient times are still revered today by their descendants.

Genesis 15:5
He took him outside and said, “Look up at the heavens and count the stars - if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”

  1. The people of Israel would be scattered worldwide
    Bible passage: Deuteronomy 28:64
    Written: perhaps 1400 BC
    Fulfilled: 721 BC, 586 BC, 70 AD, 135 AD, modern times
    In Deuteronomy 28:64, the Bible said the Jews would be scattered worldwide. This prophecy has been fulfilled in detail. Take a look at the explanation of the Jewish “Diaspora,” which means “scattering,” from the Columbia Encyclopedia, Fifth Edition: “? by 70 A.D. Jewish communities existed in Babylonia, Syria, Egypt, Cyrene, Asia Minor, Greece, and Rome. Jews followed the Romans into Europe and from Persia and Babylonia spread as far east as China. In modern times, Jews have migrated to the Americas, South Africa, and Australia. The Jewish population of Central and Eastern Europe, until World War II the largest in the world, was decimated in the Holocaust. Despite the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, the vast majority of the Jewish people remains in the Diaspora, notably in North America, Russia, and Ukraine.”

Deuteronomy 28:64
Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. ?

  1. God will never forget the children of Israel
    Bible passage: Isaiah 49:13-18
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: Throughout history
    In Isaiah 49:13-18, the Lord makes it clear that even though the people of Israel are to be exiled from their land, the Lord will not forget them, and they will brought back to their land.

Isaiah lived about 2700 years ago. At about that time, the Assyrians invaded the northern part of the land of Israel and had scattered many of the people. More than a century later, the Babylonians would do the same to the people in the southern part of the land of Israel.

Many returned after the fall of Babylon, but the Romans later exiled and scattered the people again. And many remain scattered throughout the world today. Given the exile, the scattering, and the persecutions of the past 19 centuries, it is easy to understand the sentiment of Verse 14 (NIV translation): “The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me.”

But Verses 15 and 16 show that the Lord will never forget. In fact, it says that even if a mother could forget her child, the Lord will not forget his children, for they are “engraved” on the palms of His hands. Verses 17 and 18 show that the sons of Israel will return to Israel.

Although there has always been at least a small number of Jews living in the land of Israel, millions have returned from around the world during the past 2 centuries, allowing Israel to reclaim independence in 1948, a few thousand years since the previous time that the nation had independence.

Isaiah 49:13-18
Shout for joy, O heavens; rejoice, O earth; burst into song, O mountains! For the LORD comforts his people and will have compassion on his afflicted ones. But Zion said, “The LORD has forsaken me, the Lord has forgotten me.” “Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me. Your sons hasten back, and those who laid you waste depart from you. Lift up your eyes and look around; all your sons gather and come to you. As surely as I live,” declares the LORD, "you will wear them all as ornaments; you will put them on, like a bride.

  1. The people of Israel would have a worldwide impact
    Bible passage: Genesis 12:2-3
    Written: perhaps 1400 BC
    Fulfilled: Throughout history
    In Genesis 12:2-3, and in Genesis 28:10-15, the Bible said that the descendants of Abraham and the descendants of Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, would be a blessing for people worldwide. Jacob is the father of the 12 Tribes of Israel (the Jews). In 1898, Mark Twain wrote an essay for Harper’s New Monthly Magazine that discussed how the Jews have had an impact on the world:

" ? the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of stardust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly, the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world’s list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world, in all the ages; and had done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all? All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?"

Genesis 12:2-3
“I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

  1. Israel would be partitioned by other nations
    Bible passage: Joel 3:2
    Written: about 400 BC
    Fulfilled: 1900s
    In Joel 3:2, the prophet said that the nations of the world will be judged for having scattered the people of Israel and for having “divided up” (or “parted” or “partitioned”) the land of Israel. Christian scholars believe that this is a prophecy that will be fulfilled during the End Times. But portions of the prophecy already have been fulfilled. The Jews have been scattered to nations throughout the world, and the nations of the world have divided up the land of Israel. On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly approved a motion to partition the land into two separate states, one for Jewish people and another for Arab people.

Joel 3:2
I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
(NOTE: “Jehoshaphat” means “the Lord judges.”)

  1. Israel would be restored and repopulated
    Bible passage: Ezekiel 36:8-10
    Written: between 593-571 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Ezekiel 36:8-10, the prophet Ezekiel said that the people of Israel would return, rebuild and repopulate their fallen cities. Ezekiel, according to the Bible, lived about 2600 years ago during the time of the Babylonian Captivity, when many Jews, including Ezekiel, were taken as captives to Babylon. After the Babylonian Captivity ended, many Jews returned to their homeland. But about 1900 years ago, the Jews again were forced into exile, this time by the Romans. However, since the late 1800s, millions of Jews have returned to their ancient homeland. And, once again, they have been rebuilding and repopulating their ancient cities. In 1948, there were about 600,000 Jews living in Israel. Today there are about 6,000,000.

Ezekiel 36:8-10
"`But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will soon come home. I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown, and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt.

  1. Jesus’ life was foreshadowed by the prophet Isaiah
    Bible passage: Isaiah 42:1-9
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: About 2000 years ago
    In Isaiah 42:1-9, the prophet Isaiah speaks of a servant of God who will be a light to the Gentiles (non-Jews) and bring justice to the world. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of this promise. Jesus’ teachings govern the lives of Christians throughout the world. Some estimates claim that there are as many as 2 billion Christians worldwide. More people follow the teachings of Jesus than those of any other person in history.

Isaiah 42:1-9
"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations. ? In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. ? "I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness. “I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you.”

  1. Jesus said His words would never be forgotten
    Bible passage: Luke 21:33
    Written: about 30 AD
    Fulfilled: At this very moment
    In Luke 21:33, Jesus said that regardless of what happens to the world, His words will never be forgotten. Here we are 2000 years later and the words of Jesus are all around us: Christianity has spread to people around the world and the Bible is the world’s most circulated book. Of all the people who have ever lived, can you think of a single person who could have made this claim more effectively than Jesus - that his words would never be forgotten?

Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

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These 10 Bible prophecies from Jesus, Zechariah and the Bible’s book of Revelation deal with the End Times, Apocalypse, or Last Days, when Jesus is to return and judge the living and the dead.

  1. Jerusalem would become an international problem
    Bible passage: Zechariah 12:1-5
    Written: between 520 and 518 BC
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Zechariah 12, the prophet said that there would come a time when the surrounding nations would besiege Jerusalem and Judah (the area around Jerusalem), and that all the nations of the world would gather against Jerusalem, but that God ultimately would save the city and its people. This is widely regarded as an End Time prophecy to be fulfilled in the future.

Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of this prophecy is that it is predicated on Jerusalem being a city of critical interest to the rest of the world. And it just so happens that Jerusalem is the only city in the world that is of interest to the rest of the world.

For Jews, it is their ancient capital, founded by King David about 3000 years ago. Many Arab Moslems, however, believe that the city should be part of an independent state for Palestinian Arabs. The issue of who should control Jerusalem has been a cause of the Arab-Israeli wars during the past century.

And, the conflict between Arabs and Jews has been a primary reason as to why the international community has taken an interest in Jerusalem. In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly approved a plan to carve up the ancient land of Israel into a state for Jews and another for Arabs. This plan would have established Jerusalem as an international city to be governed by the United Nations.

This extremely unusual proposal, suggesting that a city be governed by the United Nations, simply shows the unique status that Jerusalem already has in the world: It is the only city in the world that is of interest to the rest of the world.

Given the history of the city, the volatile conflict between Israel and the surrounding Arab nations, and the unusual interest that the international community has shown in regards to Jerusalem, it seems clear that the groundwork for the future fulfillment of this prophecy is in place.

Zechariah 12:1-5
This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, `The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

  1. When Israel blooms again, the Kingdom of God will be near
    Bible passage: Luke 21:29-31
    Recorded: about 30 AD
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Luke 21:29-31, Jesus said that when the fig tree blooms again, people will know that the End Times and Kingdom of God is near. Some Christian scholars believe that the fig tree represents the nation of Israel. This passage is sometimes interpreted to mean that the End Times would not begin until sometime after the nation of Israel regains sovereignty. When Jesus delivered this prophecy about 2000 years ago, Israel was ruled over by the Roman Empire. The people of Israel did not have sovereignty over their own land during that era. But, after centuries of exile, the Jews were able to return to Israel and reclaim sovereignty, in 1948.

Luke 21:29-31
He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

  1. The Messiah will appear after the Jews return to Israel
    Bible passage: Jeremiah 23:3-6
    Written: sometime from 626 to about 586 BC
    Fulfilled: end times
    In Jeremiah 23:3-6, there is a prophecy that indicates when the Messiah is to appear in the land of Israel. Jeremiah said that it would be after the exiled people of Israel return to their homeland. From a Christian point of view, this is of special interest because Jesus is supposed to appear twice. And this coincides with the fact that the people of Israel have been expelled from their homeland twice, and that they are currently in the process of returning after the second expulsion.

More than 2500 years ago, the Assyrians and Babylonians forced the people of Israel out of their homeland. Many returned during the centuries that followed and then Jesus appeared, about 2000 years ago, and announced that he is the Messiah. Later, the people of Israel were again forced out of their land (by the Romans in 135 AD) and scattered to countries throughout the world.

But, during the past few centuries, millions of exiled Jews around the world have returned to their ancient homeland. And this is one of the reasons why Christians say that the world is being prepared for the return of Jesus Christ. Because, as Jeremiah had prophesied long ago, the Messiah is to appear after the people of Israel return to their land.

The phrase, in Jeremiah 23:5, “I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King,” refers to the Messiah, and that he will be a king and a descendant of King David, who reigned over Israel about 3000 years ago. Christians believe that when Jesus returns, he will establish a kingdom of peace and righteousness.

Jeremiah 23:3-6
“I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the Lord. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness.

  1. The Gospel will be preached to the entire world
    Bible passage: Matthew 24:14
    Recorded: about 30 AD
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Matthew 24:14, the Bible says that the Gospel (the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) will be preached throughout the world. The Bible also says that after this happens, the end times will come. The Bible has been preached throughout the world for a long time. But now, with the increasing worldwide availability of television and the Internet, there is greater potential for the Gospel to be preached to everyone, everywhere.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

  1. The world would be able to simultaneously witness events
    Bible passage: Revelation 11:9-10
    Written: sometime between 54 and 95 AD
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Revelation 11:9-10, the Bible gives a prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled, at least not in a literal sense. But, perhaps for the first time in history, it can be fulfilled. The prophecy says that people all over the world will be able to simultaneously witness a particular event (the death of two prophets). This of course would have been difficult before the popularization of television and the Internet. But it is now common for people worldwide to simultaneously witness events via television and the Internet.

Revelation 11:9-10
For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

  1. Zechariah foreshadowed modern warfare
    Bible passage: Zechariah 14:12
    Written: between 520 and 518 BC
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Zechariah, chapter 14, the prophet says a time will come when nations gather to attack Jerusalem. In Zechariah 14:12, the prophet says the nations that attack Jerusalem will be struck with a “plague” that will cause their flesh to rot while they are still standing. This might be a fitting description for modern warfare if it were described by a person who lived 2500 years ago, as Zechariah did. Chemical weapons are capable of causing rapid deterioration of flesh. And a blast of heat from a nuclear weapon could have a similar affect. Some Bible scholars, however, believe that this plague could refer to a supernatural event from God to protect the Holy Land.

Zechariah 14:12
This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

  1. Many people will go to Jerusalem to seek God’s favor
    Bible passage: Zechariah 8:22
    Written: between 520 and 518 BC
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Zechariah 8:22, the prophet said 2500 years ago that a time will come when many people go to Jerusalem to seek and honor God. This prophecy has been at least partially fulfilled already. The Jews recaptured Jerusalem during the Six Day War in 1967. Since then, people from around the world have toured Jerusalem to visit various sites that are important to the history of Judaism and Christianity. Jerusalem is also an important city to Moslems.

Zechariah 8:22
And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him."

  1. Book of Revelation envisioned an army of 200 million
    Bible passage: Revelation 9:16
    Written: sometime between 54 and 95 AD
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Revelation 9:16, the Bible says that an army of 200 million will one day march toward Israel. Of course, this prophecy hasn’t been fulfilled yet, at least not literally. But, as the world’s population rises above 6 billion, it is increasingly possible for a coalition of countries to amass an army of 200 million, and this would have been unthinkable even 100 years ago.

Revelation 9:16
The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number.

  1. The troops would cross the Euphrates
    Bible passage: Revelation 16:12
    Written: sometime between 54 and 95 AD
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Revelation 16:12, the Bible says there will come a time when the Euphrates River becomes dry so that an army can cross it and march into Israel. When the book of Revelation was written 1900 years ago, it would have taken a great natural disaster, or a great amount of labor to divert the flow of the Euphrates so that an army could cross it. (In 539 BC, Cyrus and his army diverted the flow so that his troops could march across the riverbed and conquer Babylon). But, today, there are a series of dams that would make it much easier to divert the flow of the powerful river.

Revelation 16:12
The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East.

  1. People would be forced to receive the mark of the beast
    Bible passage: Revelation 13:16-18
    Written: sometime between 54 and 95 AD
    To be fulfilled: End Times
    In Revelation 13:16-18, the Bible says that there would come a time when a powerful leader would force people to receive a “mark” on or in their right hand or forehead, and that no one would be able to buy or sell unless they had that mark. When the book of Revelation was written about 1900 years ago, it would have been nearly impossible for a world leader to force everyone to receive such a mark. But, today, with modern technology, it would be much easier. Today, for example, it would be possible to implant under a person’s skin a small microchip that could be used like a credit card.

Revelation 13:16-18
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

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Tuffloud, none of the crap you spew actually proves anything.

You at the same time will reject anything that doesn’t match your viewpoint.

There is no point to this. Take your belief and be happy with it.

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[quote]tuffloud wrote:

Do you really think that you have proven the Bible wrong with these pathetic attempts?

The Bible was not written recently. The people spoke different and used different symbols and terminology. Do you really beleive that they spoke just like us?

Do you think a technical scientific explanation is going to be given to someone living in that time who has no science background? Please! To a man living in that time, there WAS a light during the day and a light at night. Just because we have science now to figure out the technicalities, doesn’t mean that you should discredit what the Bible is REALLY saying.

The bottom line is, you have a closed mind and you are not trying to hear anything the Bible is saying.

[/quote]

So you are saying that the bible is not a scientific document, and it should be looked at in the context that it was written for people with no scientific knowledge? I can buy that. But if this is the case WHY ARE YOU READING IT AS A LITERAL, SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT DOCUMENT WHEN IT COMES TO EVOLUTION, THE AGE OF THE EARTH, AND THE ORIGINS OF LIFE???

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[quote]juerocalvo wrote:
tuffloud wrote:

Do you really think that you have proven the Bible wrong with these pathetic attempts?

The Bible was not written recently. The people spoke different and used different symbols and terminology. Do you really beleive that they spoke just like us?

Do you think a technical scientific explanation is going to be given to someone living in that time who has no science background? Please! To a man living in that time, there WAS a light during the day and a light at night. Just because we have science now to figure out the technicalities, doesn’t mean that you should discredit what the Bible is REALLY saying.

The bottom line is, you have a closed mind and you are not trying to hear anything the Bible is saying.

So you are saying that the bible is not a scientific document, and it should be looked at in the context that it was written for people with no scientific knowledge? I can buy that. But if this is the case WHY ARE YOU READING IT AS A LITERAL, SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT DOCUMENT WHEN IT COMES TO EVOLUTION, THE AGE OF THE EARTH, AND THE ORIGINS OF LIFE???

[/quote]

No, you miss the point completely. I am saying that people back then spoke differently than people today. There are symbols and metaphors that have to be translated in “today’s” world.

The Bible is literal in it’s meaning. Just because a symbol or metaphor is used to describe the meaning, the meaning remains the same.

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[quote]juerocalvo wrote:
So you are saying that the bible is not a scientific document, and it should be looked at in the context that it was written for people with no scientific knowledge? I can buy that. But if this is the case WHY ARE YOU READING IT AS A LITERAL, SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT DOCUMENT WHEN IT COMES TO EVOLUTION, THE AGE OF THE EARTH, AND THE ORIGINS OF LIFE???
[/quote]

Because that is the nature of a creationist, to not make any sense at all.

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[quote]vroom wrote:
Tuffloud, none of the crap you spew actually proves anything.

You at the same time will reject anything that doesn’t match your viewpoint.

There is no point to this. Take your belief and be happy with it.[/quote]

How does the Bible predicting world wide events that have happened in the past and are happening today not prove anything?

Also, what you are saying is the Bible is crap, even though it is the most widely used book in the history of mankind.

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The day that a man creates life out of nothing is the day that I will stop believing in God.

Evolutionists:

You still cannot prove that the skeletons found to be “ape men” are actually early descendents of human beings. Could it be possible that they are other kinds of primates that have gone extinct? Is it possible that they are human beings with abnormalities? There are holes in the idea everywhere. It is not taught as a FACT.

Why is it that Shaquille O’neill and Danny DeVito have such different skeletons, yet they are both human beings? Could it mean that Danny Devito is an “ape man” and Shaquille O’neill is an “evolved” super human? If this is so, why are they both living in the same time period? Shouldn’t these two humans be “millions” of years apart? Danny DeVito is 5’1 and Shaquille Oneill is 7’1. Gee, how can they both be humans when there skeletons are so different?

If “evolutionists” found these two men’s skeletons 5 thousand years later in two different parts of the world with todays “technology”, can you imagine the stories they would come up with.

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[quote]tuffloud wrote:
juerocalvo wrote:
So you are saying that the bible is not a scientific document, and it should be looked at in the context that it was written for people with no scientific knowledge? I can buy that. But if this is the case WHY ARE YOU READING IT AS A LITERAL, SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT DOCUMENT WHEN IT COMES TO EVOLUTION, THE AGE OF THE EARTH, AND THE ORIGINS OF LIFE???

No, you miss the point completely. I am saying that people back then spoke differently than people today. There are symbols and metaphors that have to be translated in “today’s” world.

The Bible is literal in it’s meaning. Just because a symbol or metaphor is used to describe the meaning, the meaning remains the same.

[/quote]

You fail to maintain any kind of logical consistency. You say that the bible is your proof against evolution, then several factual errors are pointed out. You then backpedal and say that the bible is not a scence book, and soem things were written metaphorically for the people of teh time period. Which one is it? Is teh bible a word for word, scientific document taht must be interpreted literally, or are soem things metaphorical? If parts of the bible are metaphors rather than actual events, does evolution even go against the bible at all?