Regarding programs, I think it requires experimentation. Our bodies respond quite differently to different protocols. And our personalities are often better suited to one program over another. I can honestly say that I don’t think 5/3/1 would work for me since the program seems to focus on rep PRs and is so long term. And that’s just not appealing to me.
I tend to be a program jumper. When something doesn’t appeal to me or I don’t see results or I get bored, I change it up pretty quickly. But since the body adapts and then plateaus, I think mixing it up is probably a good thing for me.
snap, thanks! I’ll keep recording what I learn fwiw. It’s pretty great to have a community here to share our experiences.
Today’s training included failing to meet my goal twice (!)
1/12/2011
Squat: 5x5 85 (65% RM)
Military Press: 1x5 1x4 1x3 60 (83% RM)
Deadlift: 1x3 1x1 175 (88% RM)
Chinups: 1x5 124 (bw + 8lb) (88% RM)
I was a little disappointed not to get 2x5 on the opress since I got there last week, but ok.
I was trying for 1x5 at 175 on the deadlift. ^%#$ that was heavy. We’ll call that a 3 RM.
The squats were good, and I’ll add weight Friday.
Then, the facilities manager cussed me out for awhile for only squatting 10 lbs more than I overhead press. I tried babbling some crap about hip instability and working my way up but he wasn’t buying it.
Heh, my military press is better than my squat. My hip mobility is awful. I have flexibility, but not mobility, if that makes any sense. Too many years in front of a computer has turned me into a chair-shaped person.
I’m a 5x5er, mostly because I’m a total newb, but also because I’m too lazy to read 5/3/1 and well, 5x5 is pretty self explanatory. And like Snap said, maybe one day i’ll be looking to experiment too!
Great training madame! Chinups +8 lbs is good stuff!
bear, is it wrong I think of you whenever I wear a button down shirt? This is because my back has gotten wide and my shirts are tight now. It always makes me think of a post over on FA where you ripped apart a girl for asking how to make her lats smaller. I won’t be asking that.
Cal, I’m glad to see someone else much stronger on the opress than squat. I’m so embarrassed by my squat sometimes I just can’t stand it.
Masch, nice to see you! I think 5x5 is solid for me right now. As Snapper said, it’s hard to have the patience for 5/3/1. I’m also interested in some of the protocols here:
@Kimba: ^ here’s where Cressey made some suggestions.
oh i’ve bitched at so many psychos over there… but i do think i remember what you’re talking about.
one of my FAVORITES was the, “how do i make my ankles bigger.” and then getting into an anatomy fuckall with one of the “i’m gettin my degree in exercise science (or some other bullshit” retards.
not that i think a degree in exercise science is bullshit, but degree or not, i own 2 anatomy books and i can read. even interpret pictures. you wont be able to convince me that its possible to make your achilles tendon smaller. or bigger. or whatever the fuck it was.
ok. /rant.
as far as your program choices, i wouldnt use cressey’s article as a guideline for anything.
each one of those programs has helped hundreds of thousands of people get stronger, and his ignorant interpretation of 5/3/1 made me angry.
but he’s in business and he’s selling something, even if its himself, so whats a guy gotta do.
i’m still gonna follow you around some, so deal with it.
[quote]arachne12 wrote:
Kimba, Nadia, I’d like to continue this discussion!
Nadia, many things puzzle me about lifting reps and ranges. Just as an example: what is the use of building a strength endurance base if the goal is the 1 RM? It seems like the percentages in 5/3/1 and the high reps directly contradict a lot of the advice to train at a higher % of RM. I get the concept that stronger is stronger. God knows I was leaner and harder from doing bodyweight training in taekwondo than I was this past year. But being able to do 100 pushups didn’t mean I could bench more than 100 lbs.
[/quote]
I don’t know shit about training; therefore, I can’t articulate why 5-3-1 works. But it has worked for me, and my implementation of it has been less than perfect. Indeed my training instincts are god awful terrible. But still, I was able to pull 225 for 1, with a training max that was never higher than 185. I did this after about 18 months on 5-3-1, with no other significant strength training background and at a bw of about 120.
I also squatted 150x1 (although it was arguably a little high) in a little bit longer time frame and with a training max never higher than 110.
But, the bottom line is you have to do the program that you believe in. I like 5-3-1 because there are a lot of different ways to see and measure progress. I’m a whore for rep prs. They keeps me engaged and motivated over the time period necessary to make the max effort gains. Maybe there is straight road up the mountain. 5-3-1 is most certainly a program of switchback trails. But, I think it is going to get me where I want to go.
i’ve really enjoyed the discussion about 5/3/1. I’m going to have to look into precisely what it involves…
I’ve been doing (my version of) 5x5 (still beginner and the sets and reps seemed good for strength and greasing good movement). I just do… Whatever weight I can do. Once it starts to feel a bit easier then I’ll add 2.5kg to one set… Then 2 sets… Then 3… etc.
But: I also care about bringing up my 1RM (for the purpose of standing up a squat clean / squat snatch - my main goals).
So every now and then I’ll mix it up a bit by trying a couple sets of 3 (where I couldn’t do 5) and go for a heavy single or two. I guess I figured that was 5/3/1 - but sounds like the program is actually a lot more complicated than that ha!
I was interested to hear your version of 5x5.
I like autoregulating deloads because I think it is helping me listen to my body (good for injury prevention). Dunno…
bear, I’m pretty disappointed to hear I can’t build up my ankles. I have the ankles of a new born colt with skinny calves they make me look like a mutant (direct quote).
alexus, it sounds like we’re are doing roughly the same version of 5x5. Let’s keep the discussion going and see how we are doing in 3 months.
I’ve been doing a lot of inverted rowing in the Smith Machine lately (feet on floor, bar in 6th or 7th peg from the top). I think this is responsible for me getting better at chin-ups (only explanation I can think of). They say that it can help with benching. Perhaps?
alexus, I’m not sure. I get the impression that pushing and pulling don’t translate well to each other. It does make sense they’d help you get your pullups, being a semi-horizontal pull vs a vertical pull. I’m certainly willing to try it, since I only do dumbbell rows right now.
1/13/11
Taekwondo (classes: 3)
Sparring: conditioning workout. stations included woodchoppers, bear crawl/crab walk/spidermans, ab wheel, heavy bag kicking, paddle kicking.
Class: all hapkido-ish wrist locks. I’m loving the second degree self-defense curriculum.
1/14/2011
Squat 1x5 90 lb (70% 1RM) (78% bw) < some lurching, but not difficult.
Bench 4x5 80 lb (80% 1RM) (70% bw) < might have done another set of 3. Will try to complete 5x5 next week
Db rows 5x5 40 lb (80% 1RM) < done with this weight. Will move to 45s next week.
I was thinking of your comment on how you barely squat more than you pushpress today. I refused to stop at 95lbs even though it felt so heavy. Just pushing through and ignoring my brain once in while.
I notice something similar in my squats, nimain. find it hard to judge when my body is telling me that heavier isn’t a good idea, and when my body is trying to trick me about what it is capable of.
I’m not sure about the push-pull relationship either, arachne. i have certainly found that i’ve made gains on one (e.g., chin-ups) without making gains on the other (e.g., military press). I did read somewhere (sorry i’m hopeless at remembering sources) that sometimes (not always) if one is stuck on one then progressing the other can help, though. I’ve found this to be true for me in the sense that I was having trouble getting better external femur rotation. Working really hard on it… Not really getting any better… Then I thought I’d try working on internal femur rotation for a bit. In a couple of days… My external femur rotation improved. Not a lifting case… But could be worth a try. Could be the magic simply came from backing off what I had worked the hardest for a little bit to give it a chance for the muscles to recover properly so that it was improved when I came back to it. Dunno.
My squat and bench are closer than they should be too. For a very long time, I did not add weight to my squats because they were so unexplosive–even with just the bar on my back I am a painfully slow squatter. I thought slow= weak. I kept waiting to feel strong. Never did. Finally read, slow is just slow. So, now I’m doing what Frenchie recommends and just adding weight. Every rep feels like a grind, but I’ve suprised myself at what I can do if I just hang with it.
I’m with you.