European Who Loves America

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

You seem to think that if the government uses tax money that you would have to pay anyway, for healthcare that is your only option for healthcare. You can go private and use non government healthcare.[/quote]

So you mean I could have the luxury of lower overall take home pay, as tax rates in Europe are ass raping high, AND pay for quality non-government controlled healthcare too?

Golly Gee, where do I sign up?

No. I want my government and my doctor’s visits very much separate outside of some sort of standard measure that:
a) The doctor isn’t a quack and qualified
b) The doctor can’t share my info with anyone, including the government
c) The medications the doctor uses isn’t poison and if it is I have recourse in the courts.

^That is shit I don’t mind paying for. I DO mind paying for some unelected bureaucrat deciding what procedures and medications are worthwhile given some “data set”. I’m not a statistic, and that person isn’t my keeper.

You’re reading tone that isn’t there. I just write this way.

[quote]You say you are not opposed to taxation:

“The US federal price tag for the Iraq war including an estimate for veterans’ medical and disability costs into the future is about $2.2 trillion dollars. The cost for both Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan is going to be close to $4.4 trillion, not including future interest costs on borrowing for the wars.”

That could of paid for healthcare. The taxes are already there for free healthcare, no need to raise them. It is mismanagement of the money that is already paid.[/quote]

I’m done responding to “but bush” or “but Iraq war”. I’m not playing that game today, nor likely tomorrow.

82

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
The government does not use government workers central planning to build m14’s. It buys them from private companies who operate on the free market. [/quote]

I don’t think we’re buying a whole lot of M14’s anymore, but beside the point. As Beans pointed out it isn’t the same as a free market system. Companies bid for exclusive rights to provide a product knowing they’ll sell x volume of product.

[quote]
I am not saying the government should restrict and control the market I am saying the government like individuals can utilise that with common funds. [/quote]

But they typically do not. Like the link suggests instead they subsidize (Obamacare) costs in order to shift the cost burden from customers to tax payers. Even if I pay for my own healthcare (which a lot of us do with our employer) I am still paying for other people’s artificially deflated healthcare costs. When a government manipulates a market, it is not free.

BlueCross BlueShield doesn’t offer “affordable” healthcare plans for high risk individuals out of the goodness of their heart. They just get less directly from the customer and more from tax payers.

[quote]
If you mean it isn’t a free market because of the idea o universal healthcare we are not talking about the same thing. [/quote]

When the government intervenes there is no free market. That’s fact.

Only if that extra 5% tax pays for 100% of the cost of your healthcare.

83

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

You seem to think that if the government uses tax money that you would have to pay anyway, for healthcare that is your only option for healthcare. You can go private and use non government healthcare.[/quote]

So you mean I could have the luxury of lower overall take home pay, as tax rates in Europe are ass raping high, AND pay for quality non-government controlled healthcare too?

Golly Gee, where do I sign up?

No. I want my government and my doctor’s visits very much separate outside of some sort of standard measure that:
a) The doctor isn’t a quack and qualified
b) The doctor can’t share my info with anyone, including the government
c) The medications the doctor uses isn’t poison and if it is I have recourse in the courts.

^That is shit I don’t mind paying for. I DO mind paying for some unelected bureaucrat deciding what procedures and medications are worthwhile given some “data set”. I’m not a statistic, and that person isn’t my keeper.

You’re reading tone that isn’t there. I just write this way.

[quote]You say you are not opposed to taxation:

“The US federal price tag for the Iraq war including an estimate for veterans’ medical and disability costs into the future is about $2.2 trillion dollars. The cost for both Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan is going to be close to $4.4 trillion, not including future interest costs on borrowing for the wars.”

That could of paid for healthcare. The taxes are already there for free healthcare, no need to raise them. It is mismanagement of the money that is already paid.[/quote]

I’m done responding to “but bush” or “but Iraq war”. I’m not playing that game today, nor likely tomorrow. [/quote]

Are you claiming the NHS produces unqualified doctors :slight_smile: Also you can sue for negligence etc as the NHS has been on rare occasion in the past. These supposed differences don’t exist. Also you wouldn’t have to go with government healthcare, you could go private and pay what you do now. Where is the problem? If your taxes don’t go up and the taxes go on healthcare instead of foreign wars and you still have full access to private healthcare what it the issue?

So you wouldn’t wnat universal healthcare which would imprive the life of millions even if your taxes didn’t go up?

As for dismissing my legitimate point that 4.4 + trillion has been spent on two foreign wars in tax money taxpayers had no say in but to argue healthcare which would save american lives is something you never want to see seems strange.
I don’t get it.

84

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
So you wouldn’t wnat universal healthcare which would imprive the life of millions even if your taxes didn’t go up?
[/quote]

Here is the issue, you have a better chance of spotting BigFoot than this happening.

We already subsidize social security, medicare, medicaid, tuition, now healthcare, etc…

We subsidize noncompetitive farmers in America for crying out loud. My man, I’ll gladly take universal healthcare with the option to opt out and get private care if my tax rates dropped by about 5%-10% permanently. It’s about as likely as me mounting a unicorn over my fireplace though.

85

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
So you wouldn’t wnat universal healthcare which would imprive the life of millions even if your taxes didn’t go up?
[/quote]

Here is the issue, you have a better chance of spotting BigFoot than this happening.

We already subsidize social security, medicare, medicaid, tuition, now healthcare, etc…

We subsidize noncompetitive farmers in America for crying out loud. My man, I’ll gladly take universal healthcare with the option to opt out and get private care if my tax rates dropped by about 5%-10% permanently. It’s about as likely as me mounting a unicorn over my fireplace though. [/quote]

How do you feel about healthcare currently? How do you think it can be improved? Or can it be?

How do U.S tax rates compare to British ones?

Would you be paying more tax in the uK or America with your rate of earning?

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/tax-rates

86

These are the current rates.

87

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

Are you claiming the NHS produces unqualified doctors :slight_smile: Also you can sue for negligence etc as the NHS has been on rare occasion in the past. These supposed differences don’t exist.[/quote]

Re-read my post. You don’t get it.

And pay for it twice. WFT, no. Even if my current rate doesn’t change, I’m still paying for it twice. Fuck, that.

Assumptions on your part: it would improve anyone’s life & taxes wouldn’t go up.

[quote] As for dismissing my legitimate point that 4.4 + trillion has been spent on two foreign wars in tax money taxpayers had no say in but to argue healthcare which would save american lives is something you never want to see seems strange.
I don’t get it.
[/quote]

Refusing to entertain typically lefty “but Bush” and “but Iraq” arguments isn’t dismissing anything legitimate. It’s dismissing fallacy.

88

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
So you wouldn’t wnat universal healthcare which would imprive the life of millions even if your taxes didn’t go up?
[/quote]

Here is the issue, you have a better chance of spotting BigFoot than this happening.

We already subsidize social security, medicare, medicaid, tuition, now healthcare, etc…

We subsidize noncompetitive farmers in America for crying out loud. My man, I’ll gladly take universal healthcare with the option to opt out and get private care if my tax rates dropped by about 5%-10% permanently. It’s about as likely as me mounting a unicorn over my fireplace though. [/quote]

How do you feel about healthcare currently? How do you think it can be improved? Or can it be? [/quote]

It’s way over priced especially for some that doesn’t use it.

[quote]
How do U.S tax rates compare to British ones? [/quote]

I’d have to look. I know my wife and I are over 35% between federal, state, and local. Not sure what my effective rate is.

[quote]
Would you be paying more tax in the uK or America with your rate of earning?

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/tax-rates[/quote]

I have no idea.

89

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]
What the dollar to pound conversion rate?

90

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]

I just threw up in my mouth.

My tax rates would double. Include my losses on conversion rates…

Fuck that.

91

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
How do you think it can be improved? Or can it be?[/quote]

Competition across state lines for one thing. Cost transparency for another. We really have no idea how much a procedure really costs or should cost. We really have no idea what equilibrium is for healthcare services.

92

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]
What the dollar to pound conversion rate? [/quote]

.65 ish right now I believe. As in 1 dollar is worth .65 pounds.

Then keep in mind a gallon of gas is a fuck ton more there too, lol Gasoline: fuel prices around the world 2021 | Statista

You’d end up ass boned like me.

93

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Cost transparency for another. We really have no idea how much a procedure really costs or should cost.
[/quote]

You get invoices you know.

94

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]

I just threw up in my mouth.

My tax rates would double. Include my losses on conversion rates…

Fuck that. [/quote]

I’m not 100% sure what the chart represents, but I believe I’d be in the 40% bracket, which is more than I pay now in fed, state, and local.

95

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Cost transparency for another. We really have no idea how much a procedure really costs or should cost.
[/quote]

You get invoices you know. [/quote]

Yes and those costs are not necessarily what they’d be without gov intervention.

96

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]

I just threw up in my mouth.

My tax rates would double. Include my losses on conversion rates…

Fuck that. [/quote]

I’m not 100% sure what the chart represents, but I believe I’d be in the 40% bracket, which is more than I pay now in fed, state, and local.[/quote]

Would what you get for that tax in your eyes make it worth paying for the services?

Free dental up to 18 for your children
Free healthcare
Free education
Free public transport when 60+
Free housing if needed
Living benefits if made redundant
Waste disposal and heating instillation

97

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]

I just threw up in my mouth.

My tax rates would double. Include my losses on conversion rates…

Fuck that. [/quote]

I’m not 100% sure what the chart represents, but I believe I’d be in the 40% bracket, which is more than I pay now in fed, state, and local.[/quote]

Higher tax rate, higher cost of living, less freedom, worse teeth, more racism, more government control and an utter lack of understanding of history, economics and self defense…

What’s not to love about Europe?

98

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]
What the dollar to pound conversion rate? [/quote]

.65 ish right now I believe. As in 1 dollar is worth .65 pounds.

Then keep in mind a gallon of gas is a fuck ton more there too, lol Gasoline: fuel prices around the world 2021 | Statista

You’d end up ass boned like me. [/quote]

Can I ask you the same question beans? What would you like to see change with the U.S healthcare system, if there is anything?

99

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]

I just threw up in my mouth.

My tax rates would double. Include my losses on conversion rates…

Fuck that. [/quote]

I’m not 100% sure what the chart represents, but I believe I’d be in the 40% bracket, which is more than I pay now in fed, state, and local.[/quote]

Would what you get for that tax in your eyes make it worth paying for the services?

Free dental up to 18 for your children
Free healthcare
Free education
Free public transport when 60+
Free housing if needed
Living benefits if made redundant
Waste disposal and heating instillation

[/quote]

You don’t understand what “free” means. IT ISN"T FREE IF HE IS PAYING FOR IT!

100

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]YamatoDamashii92 wrote:
These are the current rates.[/quote]
What the dollar to pound conversion rate? [/quote]

.65 ish right now I believe. As in 1 dollar is worth .65 pounds.

Then keep in mind a gallon of gas is a fuck ton more there too, lol Gasoline: fuel prices around the world 2021 | Statista

You’d end up ass boned like me. [/quote]

Can I ask you the same question beans? What would you like to see change with the U.S healthcare system, if there is anything?
[/quote]

Let’s repeal the ACA for a start.