I’m just going to invent a philosophy that what is morally good gets you laid, and what’s morally bad gets you not laid. Mutually, of course.
[quote]DickBag wrote:
But one thing im glad about is, the fact that AAS is illegal means that there is a lesser chance that a misinformed person will use them, which would harm them if abused.
[/quote]
Wait…how the hell is this true?
You have more people using drugs from UNKNOWN SOURCES with questionable sterile technique BECAUSE these drugs are illegal. If people HAD to go to a doctor for them, THEN there would be far less usage from clueless people.
Keeping them illegal INCREASES the risks of using them. There would be no black market worth mentioning if they were not illegal like they are.
As it is, a high school kid can get steroids easier than they can get a prescription for Tylenol III. How is this safer?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wait…how the hell is this true?
You have more people using drugs from UNKNOWN SOURCES with questionable sterile technique BECAUSE these drugs are illegal. If people HAD to go to a doctor for them, THEN there would be far less usage from clueless people.
Keeping them illegal INCREASES the risks of using them. There would be no black market worth mentioning if they were not illegal like they are.
As it is, a high school kid can get steroids easier than they can get a prescription for Tylenol III. How is this safer?[/quote]
C’mon Doc - you know if a high school kid wants tylenol 3 they aren’t going to their doctor to try to obtain it - they are going to the kid who just had wisdom teeth removed and is now selling his leftover pills to everyone at school.
Where do you draw the line between food/supplements/drugs… they all have effects on the body, just in different concentrations. A broad definition of a drug is something that alters “normal” bodily function. Normal obviously being subjective.
If anyone in the field has more knowledge than I, please share.
My opinion on legal etc-
I don’t understand why it would ever influence someone to make a drug or substance like this illegal. (unless perhaps non-optional medicare type stuff which I know very little about so excuse my ignorance if im wrong). To restrict something that effects a person on an individual basis is a choice that belongs to the user (and inevitably still does). To say its harmful and it would effect the people that love them, that can be viewed as selfish of the family or loved ones, they should allow the user to do to themselves what they think correct.
ultimately it should be the users choice, as we know making it illegal does not make the users more informed of the drugs usually nor does it make the drug safer or harder to obtain.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
I didn’t whether to put this either here or the steroid forum, but I figured I’d get more views on this subject. I’m curious to anybody who considers themselves somewhat of a Philosopher and what their Philosophy, whether it be Deontology, Utilitarianism, Virtue Theory, etc and its view say on the use of anabolics in a competitive setting.
Hypotheticals may be used, and is encouraged. Hopefully this doesn’t get too out of hand, otherwise I’d ask the Mods to shut the thread down.[/quote]
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I eat your shit, iz niiice!
To link steroids and ethics is like linking anti depressants or anti anxiety meds to ethics.That is to say nonsensical.If they help you go through life leading a better quality of life and being a more productive human being,they are of value.No one says “Oooooh,you’re taking Xanax for anxiety?You unethical human being!Work through that shit naturally!”
firstly people are retarded. ive had people accuse me of “cheating” becuz, and i quote, “i mess around with that protein and creatine stuff”. the general public knows nothing about steroids. steroids are put in the same group as drugs like meth and crack by the media. congress has hearings on steroid use in MLB! why the hell do they care? why the witch hunt? because people do not understand steroids at all and therefor vilify them as a terrible drug. it makes me so mad when ppl go on tv and bash guys like Arod over steroids. they gave him a contract for 250 million to be the BEST in baseball. if im paying someone that much money to be the best then they should do w/e they can to be the best, including take steroids. honestly if YOU were given 250 mill to hit homeruns youd feel the immense pressure to produce. and YOU would def take w/e u could to help.
secondly only the first person to ever use steroids in the nfl, mlb, pwrlfting ect. cheated. after that everyone else was just COMPETING. the nfl condones performance enhancing drugs, yes thats right. obviously not publicly; but privately they do because they leave just enough wiggle room in their testing policy for players to do it. so if everyone else does, and u want to be competitive and keep ur job your gonna juice too. if u morally object then u should quit bcuz u wont last long. people act so shocked when players get caught. wake up america, steroids are just as important as helmets in the nfl.
and if ur a gym rat and u wanna push 500 lbs or get some 20 inch cannons so f’ing what? this is america and u should be able to do what u want. land of the free. its no different than wanting to look young and getting botox or taking viagra to keep mr johnson standing at attention.
[quote]DickBag wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]DickBag wrote:
But one thing im glad about is, the fact that AAS is illegal means that there is a lesser chance that a misinformed person will use them, which would harm them if abused.
[/quote]
Wait…how the hell is this true?
You have more people using drugs from UNKNOWN SOURCES with questionable sterile technique BECAUSE these drugs are illegal. If people HAD to go to a doctor for them, THEN there would be far less usage from clueless people.
Keeping them illegal INCREASES the risks of using them. There would be no black market worth mentioning if they were not illegal like they are.
As it is, a high school kid can get steroids easier than they can get a prescription for Tylenol III. How is this safer?[/quote]
If steroids were made legal there would still be black market steroids, catering to guys in the gym that want more than the doctor will safely prescribe.
Not everyone will want to use aas under the guidance of a doctor. Anyways, I feel that making them legal will just mean more people using them, which means more ill informed people using them.
Women would be taking them to lose weight, Men who never even lift will suddenly have as much right to use steroids as anyone else, and then eventually go to the dealers in the gym because if hes got a noob enough attitude to use aas without ever training, then chances are hes silly enough to think more equals better and the big guys in the gym got big by taking their own cycles, not the ones made for them by conservative docs.
I mean, If i were a doctor, I would prescribe very safe cycles just to make sure I don’t get any trouble coming back to me! Surely people using Aas would be thinking this as well, and these thoughts would be reinforced in the gyms by all the big users who think that docs dont know shit, and just want to make sure their job is safe.
I mean, responsible advice is always going to be conservative.
As well, I believe that if steroids were made legal, then highschool kids would not be able to get a prescription, so they would go to the black market anyways.
There will probably always be a black market for steroids, just like illegal ciggerettes and so on. Look at cigerettes, they are legal but every morning I walk by a couple women who are trying to sell them on the street.
Increasing the availibility of powerfull hormones just seems to be a bad idea. If they were made legal then only over 25 year old’s should be allowed to use, and only those with a training age of about 5 years or more.
Another thing to add, theres enough angry chaps walking around as it is. I don’t believe in roid rage but I do believe in dominance. And the more people using aas means that more than likely there is going to be an increase in the amount of pricks using, which would just be unstable.
I want to say again that I don’t believe in roid rage, I just heard the phrase " if your a dickhead before the gear, your an even biggger dickhead on the gear"
Just my opinions.[/quote]
I think you are completely wrong about the greater chance for widespread abuse but
I think youre right that the black market wont disappear. AAS are legal to posses in the UK and there is still an underground market there simply because it is so much cheaper to make the stuff personally than to buy pharmacy grade stuff. Most people in the UK arent going to doctors to get stuff.
The truth is that the people who are willing to take the risks to use the stuff don’t really care that theyre breaking the law. I think only a very small percentage of non users would say that the ONLY reason they choose not to use is becuase of the illegality.
Evolutionary arguments cannot influence our views of morality. I say this as a guy who works everyday with evolutionary biologists, and this comes form them, textbooks and real world scientific research.
In an evolutionary system, altruism (i.e taking something away from yourself, to give to another) to anyone but a close relative makes your genes less likely to spread.
That is why creatures that heard, heard with their immediate family, and will often harm their family for themselves an their own offspring.
Whenever you bring genetics and evolution into a debate about morality you have to bare in mind that acording to darwininian science mother nature does not want you to be good, she wants you to kill off men weeker than you, and rape until your offspring dominate.
I am not saying that I agree with rape and murder, just that anyone who says that somehow roids are allowing you to cheat on the biological playing field, or are against mother natures plan, doesn’t understand either.
It’s legal to chop of your wiener and fill your body with female hormones, which is obviously tenfolds of times more harmful. But enchancing yourself with your own natural sex hormone in a controlled fashion? HELL NO MAKE THAT SHIT ILLEGAL
I don’t think I’ll ever use any sort of drugs myself, but as far as my attitude goes as long as you’re not in some sort of competition where the rules clearly state no steroid use, I can’t see any logical reason for self-use being bad, immoral, unethic or some other bullshit hugely subjective description.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Morals have to come from a higher being than yourself, which means no man can “make up” morals, they have to be founded in something greater. Therefore, God.[/quote]
You weak, pathetic, fool.
This is the foundation of true evil, if there ever is such a thing, in the human world:
Deliberately building a system of structural ignorance.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Morals have to come from a higher being than yourself, which means no man can “make up” morals, they have to be founded in something greater. Therefore, God.[/quote]
You weak, pathetic, fool.
This is the foundation of true evil, if there ever is such a thing, in the human world:
Deliberately building a system of structural ignorance.
[/quote]
Yeah, and like people have done so much great by ignoring god. Kind of like your buddy who was responsible for , oh, 6,000,000 or so deaths in a genocide. Like man made stuff is so much better.
You’re the pathetic weak fool.
Only fools drag God by his holy beard into every dicussion and only even greater fools do that with Hitler.
And by the way, the nazis were overwhelmingly christian. I hope you know what was etched into the German GI’s belt? Not even the US would go that far.
If you cannot summon the strength to make your rules or accept manmade rules, don’t come to me if you feel powerless or hide behind your false gods.
The intellectual and moral impotence lies with systematic ignorance.
[quote]AzCats wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
AzCats wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
If it is banned and you use it against people who arent using and youre winning its cheating, if youre using and losing its not cheating.
My beef with steroids being illegal is whats the difference between steroids and creatine, or Surge or Anaconda.Besides the obvious of course.But really what the fuck is the difference, at the end of the day im using creatine and beta-alanine and Surge and protien to get bigger and stronger.That is the same reason people use AAS, AAS just works better and faster.
It’s kind of like saying whats the difference between Cocaine and whiskey. One is illegal and the other isn’t, but both will get you high. Steroids on the other hand are far more dangerous than creatine. Steroids were given a bad rap because of those who have abused them. I don’t agree with legalizing steroids because there are too many out there that would do just that…Abuse them!
Your post makes no sense.
In fact, anyone anywhere who acts like legalization of a substance or drug equals no regulation seems to be living outside of reality.
If they were “legal” and not hunted down like they are currently, doctors could return to being the ones in control of their use…instead of having things like they are where doctors are vilified and tracked down if they prescribe them to patients at will.
If people were truly concerned about health, they would eradicate the black market but not continuing to make these and some other drugs illegal.
This country could deal with quite a bit of debt by the simple act of legalizing marijuana and taxing it…yet people are dumb enough to let their self righteousness keep that from happening.[/quote]
I understand your point X, but if Steroids were legal there would have to be some High levels of regulation. What types of regulation would keep any teenage kid from walking into a Wallgreens and pulling 3 vials of Deca or test E off the shelf? Age limit? We all know that doesn’t work.
I am all for legalizing marijuana, but marijuana never killed anyone either. I live here in Mexico now after spending 30yrs in the states and it’s much easier to see your point being here. I can and have walked into any Farmacia and said “I will take 10 of those loaded Sustanon 250’s” without any prescription or questions. I’m not sure exactly what it is that makes the USA so much different than down here. Education, Media?
I have been to 5 different gyms here in the small town I live in and not one person I have trained with or talked to takes steroids or really even knows anything about them. I saw and knew many that took the juice in the states, It was everywhere. So I do see your point that making them legal would put a stop to certain crimes and hunting down those that prescribe for whatever reason. It’s legal here without a script and knowbody wants it and illegal in the USA and many other countries and people want it. It’s really hard to say what would happen if they were legalized there until they actually are, but i don’t think that’s gonna happen anytime soon with the bad rap they get from the media making steroids out to be this BAD BAD drug. Just curious what types of regulations that could prevent anyone from walking into any tienda and buying them OTC if they were legalized? [/quote]
Sorry if I misread your post, but in your first two paragraphs, you seem to imply that Steroids do kill people. That documentary “Bigger, Faster, Stronger” presented evidence contrary to that implication.
women have been legally taking female hormones for a better quality of life for decades, but men who do the same are vilified and threatened with incarceration. do you know how many kids under the age of 16 that i treat in the ED that all already on xanax, lexapro, aderall, prozac? poly-pharmacy for children is rampant. and their parents will actually ask for a script for vicodin or norco for these kids for minor lacerations, bumps and bruises. But an old guy like me cant take testosterone?
My take on things
2 cars on nitric oxide is fair in a race.
1 car on nitric oxide, and another that isn’t, is not fair.
Just like
Guys juicing up in non tested competitions is fair
Guys juicing up in drug free competitions is not fair
As far as the legalization conversation , I think make it all legal, and allow pharmaceutical grade products to be sold. At least then people know what they are getting, and let survival of the fittest come into play. If you can’t act responsibly without someone telling you not to do something, you probably don’t deserve to pass on your genetics anyway. If people want something, they will get it anyway. Weed, coke, steroids, pills… people get anything they want. I am in college, and it is crazy to me how much shit these kids get, and how the richest kids in the frats are generally the ones selling it. In the gym, and all through the world of strength athletics, how many guys in the top 5 do you think are clean? How many of the ones using are getting everything they use from a doctor?
Making laws against drugs is ineffective IMO. Legalizing everything would eliminate a black market full of questionable products, and allow safer use, without over burdening the prison system, for a category of crimes that regulations will never win against anyway.
Closing quote, although I forgot who said it
“If you aren’t cheating, you aren’t trying hard enough”
May have messed up that quote a little, but whatever.
Kind of odd views maybe, but thats just me.