Eternal Vice Versa

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1

Consider Bramley’s God of Eden,Prince Earth and the heaven/hell, good/evil fight.

what if you had been praying to the wrong one?

this book says

the snake in the garden of Eden was the force of good

which would mean god was kicked out of heaven, and is in fact the devil…and would mean the devil is the helper of man

and the god we’ve been taught as good is the bad one, or enemy of man

I’m not good at quoting scripture but I know 2 things

the verse that makes polytheism wrongs says “let us” in god’s voice which means there are more than one in heaven, right?

and why would god, who loves us, not want us to have knowledge?

if you have to flame these questions, please just ignore this hread and take it somewhere else

thanks,

Rocky

2

Well, then there’s a group you might like where they have it that Lucifer is the god of light and good and just helping man out, you know, while who most people think is God is “Adonay” who is to blame for everything, and all you have to do is undergo some rituals to pledge your allegiance to Lucifer.

3

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, then there’s a group you might like where they have it that Lucifer is the god of light and good and just helping man out, you know, while who most people think is God is “Adonay” who is to blame for everything, and all you have to do is undergo some rituals to pledge your allegiance to Lucifer.[/quote]

I have looked into that in the past. It looks like I might be heading that way. I’m not sure though. The more I think of the term “great deciever” I just come back to that Eden story. It makes me wonder, what if.

you know?

especially as I study historical religion vs the one that is taught…and even more when I look into histsory vs actual history.

4

Well, I wouldn’t find it to be recommended as the group in question in their literature does acknowledge that their Lucifer is the same as Satan, and really Satan worshippers don’t have a good track record of well-lived lives so far as can readily be determined, and with some very nasty cases.

I’d consider it more reasonable to have a suspicion that any given religious belief is bunk rather than to assume that it is something where all you have to do is flip it 180 degrees to the opposite and then it is true, particularly where that 180 degrees involves accepting Satan as god. But I can’t advise what to do.

Really, I wrote the above post in a poorly thought out or really un-thought out way. The real intent was that I have from personal experiences an EXTREME negative view of that group and it was more a statement against that group and against that general 180-degree-flipped concept, but on seeing the post again it doesn’t accomplish anything useful.

5

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, I wouldn’t find it to be recommended as the group in question in their literature does acknowledge that their Lucifer is the same as Satan, and really Satan worshippers don’t have a good track record of well-lived lives so far as can readily be determined, and with some very nasty cases.

I’d consider it more reasonable to have a suspicion that any given religious belief is bunk rather than to assume that it is something where all you have to do is flip it 180 degrees to the opposite and then it is true, particularly where that 180 degrees involves accepting Satan as god. But I can’t advise what to do.

Really, I wrote the above post in a poorly thought out or really un-thought out way. The real intent was that I have from personal experiences an EXTREME negative view of that group and it was more a statement against that group and against that general 180-degree-flipped concept, but on seeing the post again it doesn’t accomplish anything useful.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying and agree with it. That’s my conflict. I have friends who are into that worshiping (comes with my own lifestyle i guess). Even as a person who lets “whatever happens happen” their practice shocks me at times. The other side is, I think a lot of the stuff in the current beliefs are wrong…I don’t know what to do, honestly. Its going to take a long time before I declare anything (as it should I guess).

6

Read about the Manichean Heresy, the Gnostic Religion, the writings of Madame Helena Blavatski, and The Book Of Enoch and your mind will really be tripping out.

7

You could also read Robert Heinlein’s “Job, A Comedy of Justice.” It may actually be a great book for you. If I remember correctly, it takes your line of thinking to further absurdity, such as exploring a whole hierarchy of gods, in addition to the Greek gods, Norse gods etc.

8

Oh, and on your question of why God would have not wanted Adam and Eve to have “knowledge” of good and evil: While I never learned Hebrew (or rather got scarcely anywhere with it) I recall from commentaries that in the Hebrew there are distinct words for intellectual knowledge versus experiential knowledge, and here the word refers to experiential knowledge.

So the meaning was that they were a given a condition where they had no experience of evil and could have continued in that, and were instructed to do so, but chose to acquire experiential knowledge of good and evil, with of course evil having undesirable consequences.

9

It is at least interesting that Lucifer (the carrier or the bringer of light) is seen as a villain.

Prometeus whose crime also was that he brought light to all men was also punished by the gods but the Greeks embraced him as a hero and their champion.

It kind of fits in with the different cultures, whereas the Greeks embraced knowledge the Jews back then were illiterate dildos.

Yes, they were analphabetic fake penises.

10

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was symbolic of God’s Sovereignty.
( There was also a tree of Life which symbolized eternal life without evil)

Knowledge of good and evil meant the capacity to judge good from bad.

In that scenario it would have been like sending our young children into the world without any guidance.

Because of respect for free will, mankind was allowed to chose to guide themselves.
( Mankind was warned that the capacity to judge good from bad didn’t belong to them: “But as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you it from it you will positively die”. Genesis 2:17 )

That is what the tree of knowledge of good and bad symbolized.

Authority.

Complete authority: Judgement and guidance.
( Notice how we make brilliant scientific discoveries have not the capacity to judge exactly how, where or when down the line it is going to go bad on us - that capacity is always missing no matter how genius - so it is not common knowledge and intelligence - it’s wisdom. Wisdom is missing. It is logical, since mankind, aka Adam and Eve, would have been at infancy at that point in their development. Genetic inheritance ensures we developed in many ways yet fall short of achieving our fullest potential because mankind left before finishing their schooling )

Having replaced Love with sloth we basically replaced God with government.

Rejected, God has left the building.

“All of this I have seen, and there was an applying of my heart to every work under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his own injury” ( Ecclesiastes 8:9 )

11

[quote]orion wrote:
It is at least interesting that Lucifer (the carrier or the bringer of light) is seen as a villain.

Prometeus whose crime also was that he brought light to all men was also punished by the gods but the Greeks embraced him as a hero and their champion.

It kind of fits in with the different cultures, whereas the Greeks embraced knowledge the Jews back then were illiterate dildos.

Yes, they were analphabetic fake penises.

[/quote]

What does that mean? It is well known that the ancient Hebrews possessed literacy during the Greek Dark Ages where writing was entirely forgotten, and all accounts of it (such as Homer’s epics) weren’t written until the 6th or 7th century BC. Ignoring the bible there are third party archeological references to Israelite literacy, leaving the only question being “of course they possessed literacy since before the 10th century BC, but how widespread was it?” For example, the Siloam inscriptions.

But I gather by your insult that you were probably kidding, right?

12

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Consider Bramley’s God of Eden,Prince Earth and the heaven/hell, good/evil fight.

what if you had been praying to the wrong one?

this book says

the snake in the garden of Eden was the force of good

which would mean god was kicked out of heaven, and is in fact the devil…and would mean the devil is the helper of man

and the god we’ve been taught as good is the bad one, or enemy of man

I’m not good at quoting scripture but I know 2 things

the verse that makes polytheism wrongs says “let us” in god’s voice which means there are more than one in heaven, right?

and why would god, who loves us, not want us to have knowledge?

if you have to flame these questions, please just ignore this hread and take it somewhere else

thanks,

Rocky[/quote]

…what might be more beneficial to you is to take these stories as allegory. Then the stories tell about the inner struggle between knowing [gnosis] and superficial thought [innocence]…

…we are thought, and thought is a tricky bastard. It will make you believe it’s your biggest friend, when in fact it’s your greatest enemy. Watch “Revolver” by Guy Ritchie more than once, and it’ll become clear to you…

…so, thought disguises itself as something that is beneficial to you, when in reality thought simply wants to remain in control. That’s simply the nature of the beast, and most people live their lives without ever realising this…

…if you want to break free from Eden [ignorance], still the mind. Practice all day everyday, and you’ll know what these stories mean…

13

[quote]jglickfield wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
It is at least interesting that Lucifer (the carrier or the bringer of light) is seen as a villain.

Prometeus whose crime also was that he brought light to all men was also punished by the gods but the Greeks embraced him as a hero and their champion.

It kind of fits in with the different cultures, whereas the Greeks embraced knowledge the Jews back then were illiterate dildos.

Yes, they were analphabetic fake penises.

[/quote]

What does that mean? It is well known that the ancient Hebrews possessed literacy during the Greek Dark Ages where writing was entirely forgotten, and all accounts of it (such as Homer’s epics) weren’t written until the 6th or 7th century BC. Ignoring the bible there are third party archeological references to Israelite literacy, leaving the only question being “of course they possessed literacy since before the 10th century BC, but how widespread was it?” For example, the Siloam inscriptions.

But I gather by your insult that you were probably kidding, right?[/quote]

No, I am deeply convinced that they were plastic sex toys.

Then, just because some of them could read and write does not exactly make them enlightened. It is one thing if you use literacy to spread ideas and quite another to use it to supress them and resist change.

14

I look at the story as an example of the failure of prohibition. God showing man that Prohibition does not work for man even through God. God knew the choice his creation would make. It’s done to tech the powers that be to NOT forbid.

Nothing tastes as good as the forbidden fruit. That is the lesson.

The pain and suffering is not real. It is the product of the awakening from an innocent childlike state to a suddenly aware and intelligent creation. This caused Adam and Eve to see and feel all the evil of the world for the first time. They felt Cold, Heat, Anger, Love …everything. For the first time.

15

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Read about the Manichean Heresy.[/quote]

I was thinking about that. In order to have these fears you have to actually believe that God and Satan are of equal power to oppose one another (as in dualism). In which case, I guess it wouldn’t matter who you align yourself with as either one of these deities could reward its servants equally.

16

[quote]jglickfield wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Read about the Manichean Heresy.[/quote]

I was thinking about that. In order to have these fears you have to actually believe that God and Satan are of equal power to oppose one another (as in dualism). In which case, I guess it wouldn’t matter who you align yourself with as either one of these deities could reward its servants equally.
[/quote]

This seems to make sense to me right now. If I chose Hell, its ruler would show favor to me rather than punishment, right?

17

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]jglickfield wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Read about the Manichean Heresy.[/quote]

I was thinking about that. In order to have these fears you have to actually believe that God and Satan are of equal power to oppose one another (as in dualism). In which case, I guess it wouldn’t matter who you align yourself with as either one of these deities could reward its servants equally.
[/quote]

This seems to make sense to me right now. If I chose Hell, its ruler would show favor to me rather than punishment, right?[/quote]

Unless your side loses the final war…

18

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]jglickfield wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Read about the Manichean Heresy.[/quote]

I was thinking about that. In order to have these fears you have to actually believe that God and Satan are of equal power to oppose one another (as in dualism). In which case, I guess it wouldn’t matter who you align yourself with as either one of these deities could reward its servants equally.
[/quote]

This seems to make sense to me right now. If I chose Hell, its ruler would show favor to me rather than punishment, right?[/quote]

Unless your side loses the final war… [/quote]

How would that be possible? With all the versions of Christianity that evolved, there has to be more “wrong” worshipers that have been “damned” for deviance. Heaven would have a loss due to numbers, right?

19

You seem like a satanist freak.I don’t really believe in any of it at the moment,but am fascinated by the occult and satanism.If you come across any more interesting reading material or actually join a group,please send me a PM as I’d love to talk to someone who is actually involved with that sort of stuff rather than just reading about it online.

20

[quote]wigsa wrote:
You seem like a satanist freak.I don’t really believe in any of it at the moment,but am fascinated by the occult and satanism.If you come across any more interesting reading material or actually join a group,please send me a PM as I’d love to talk to someone who is actually involved with that sort of stuff rather than just reading about it online.[/quote]

I will, if I do.

Why would you say “freak” though? Would the label go to a Christian too?