Good to see you back, Doc.
The more I get into all of this the more I appreciate how complex our bodies are. I think medicine is still in the dark ages in many ways but we still have to do what we can.
Nice to hear from ya doc!
very good thread
no wonder I felt like sh…t with T at 350 and estrodiol at 81, !!!
This should be your source for all testing
They are much, much superior than blood testing for markers of androgens and estrogens and such
Note the entire 28 hormone panel is only 220 bucks - My insurance covered the shipping, so it was 199 out the door
They run a full spectrum of estrogens, including E1/E2/E3, 2,4,16 hyrdoxy
Note that most places, the estrdiol tests and methods are not anywhere near as accurate. Methods do not involve the ultra sensitive spectrum analysis that is often required.
Note that Rhein labs uses a 24 hour urine panel, which is beyond superior to blood draws. A blood draw is only a brief snapshot of the hormone levels at that time, say 8am. With urine testing, you urinate into a jug for 24 hours, and an average of that is taken for results.
It is comparable to getting a blood test, every hour, for 24 hours a day, and taking the average.
You can see how this method is much more accurate.
Dr. PowerClean … you have been missed!
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Trouble is, there is no great cure at the moment. Maybe we should have a dopamine thread. Didnt mean to hijack, keep the knowledge and dialogue going on estrogen, it is something we can and must fix. Doc
[/quote]
Welcome back! Could you start a thread on dopamine? Maybe with a little background on it. I tried starting a thread on neurotransmitters in the Supplement forum but it didn’t take root.
Wonderful thread. Very educational. I found it at just the right time. Just had the test done last week. My T is at 580 and E2 at 64. I don’t seem to have any “issues” but I also don’t know how long I’ve had elevated E or if it’s always been like that. Should I wait a while and have it checked again to see if it fluctuates before attacking it with an AI?
I had seemed to be sluggish much more so than I used to be, but I attributed that to being fat and out of shape. I recently started getting back into shape and am now at 11% bf (from 20+). I suppose my E2 could be on its way down from the sudden fat loss. Any thoughts would be appreciated?
You’re right. Fat makes estrogen and simply losing fat will help your T to E ratio. Plus being active and lifting weights gives your whole body a boost. Add a solid nutrition program and you’ll be well on the way to doing all the lifestyle stuff that makes a real difference.
Good luck and welcome!
1 Like
The body has a hard time clearing E from the body. E is metabolized in the liver and discharged into the gut with the liver bile.
The process in the liver requires the action of the P450 enzymes. Many drugs, some supplements some foods and alcohol also make demands on the P450 enzyme processes.
Grapefruit should not be consumed regularly, it will lead to increase E via the P450 demsnds. Cut back on alcohol consumption or eliminate. Limit vitamin E to 400-800iu per day. Review all drugs and supplements.
If using SSRI’s, try to get switched to generic Wellbutrin. Elevated E2 can be the source of depression for some, also including low T.
If on a sleep aid, try trazodone instead. This increases dopamine and also is known to increase P450 activity which can speed up E clearance.
Take 50mg/day of zinc. Front load with 100mg ED for a week.
[quote]happydog48 wrote:
socrgod wrote: I suppose my E2 could be on its way down from the sudden fat loss.
You’re right. Fat makes estrogen and simply losing fat will help your T to E ratio. Plus being active and lifting weights gives your whole body a boost. Add a solid nutrition program and you’ll be well on the way to doing all the lifestyle stuff that makes a real difference.
Good luck and welcome![/quote]
Thank you for the response. I take it that I should just wait and see if the changes I’ve made in the last few months allow my body to regulate itself to lower E before starting something I may not need. Also, any comments on the blood test vs. urine test as far as accuracy and consistency? Thanks again.
The body has a hard time clearing E from the body. E is metabolized in the liver and discharged into the gut with the liver bile.
The process in the liver requires the action of the P450 enzymes. Many drugs, some supplements some foods and alcohol also make demands on the P450 enzyme processes.
Grapefruit should not be consumed regularly, it will lead to increase E via the P450 demands. Cut back on alcohol consumption or eliminate. Limit vitamin E to 400-800iu per day. Review all drugs and supplements.
If using SSRI’s, try to get switched to generic Wellbutrin. Elevated E2 can be the source of depression for some, also including low T.
If on a sleep aid, try trazodone instead. This increases dopamine and also is known to increase P450 activity which can speed up E clearance.
Take 50mg/day of zinc. Front load with 100mg ED for a week.
[quote]KSman wrote:
The body has a hard time clearing E from the body. E is metabolized in the liver and discharged into the gut with the liver bile.[/quote]
Does this suggest using an AI to be necessary in lowering the E, or just make the process faster?
[quote]
Take 50mg/day of zinc. Front load with 100mg ED for a week.[/quote]
I take the Biotest ZMA supplement. Good enough?
Thanks.
I hope this helps anyone who needs:
I recently began taking Vinpocetine, a very cheap OTC med that increases blood flow to the brain, leading to better memory, mood, and actually increases intelligence. As an adjunct to TRT, I very highly recommend Vinpo. It is probably the best med I’ve ever taken.
www.nutrasanus.com/vinpocetine.html
There’s a thread in the Supplements forum about Brain Boosters. It is an excellent read.
1 Like
isent Vinpocetine the stuff thats in most ‘fat burning’ products these days ?
[quote]fightu35 wrote:
isent Vinpocetine the stuff thats in most ‘fat burning’ products these days ?
[/quote]
You may be thinking of Yohimbine; bad stuff.
[quote]socrgod wrote:
KSman wrote:
The body has a hard time clearing E from the body. E is metabolized in the liver and discharged into the gut with the liver bile.
Does this suggest using an AI to be necessary in lowering the E, or just make the process faster?
Take 50mg/day of zinc. Front load with 100mg ED for a week.
I take the Biotest ZMA supplement. Good enough?
Thanks.
[/quote]
An AI like Arimidex will deal very effectively with high or elevated E. It does not increase the clearance rate of E, it lowers the production rate of T–>E conversion.
“I take the Biotest ZMA supplement. Good enough?” I have not looked at what is in products for a while. They may work quite well in many cases. Only serum E2 tests will let you know how any of these things work… for you. The considerations for [life long] TRT and estrogen control may be different than for other situations. If a doctor wants to reduce one’s T levels, he will reach for a drug that has a known dose-response.
The use of zinc is something that I have been overlooking… picked up on that when reading books lately. When on TRT with adex, it gets the job done with or without zinc. But zinc has merits in any case.
[quote]KSman wrote:
socrgod wrote:
KSman wrote:
The body has a hard time clearing E from the body. E is metabolized in the liver and discharged into the gut with the liver bile.
Does this suggest using an AI to be necessary in lowering the E, or just make the process faster?
Take 50mg/day of zinc. Front load with 100mg ED for a week.
I take the Biotest ZMA supplement. Good enough?
Thanks.
An AI like Arimidex will deal very effectively with high or elevated E. It does not increase the clearance rate of E, it lowers the production rate of T–>E conversion.
“I take the Biotest ZMA supplement. Good enough?” I have not looked at what is in products for a while. They may work quite well in many cases. Only serum E2 tests will let you know how any of these things work… for you. The considerations for [life long] TRT and estrogen control may be different than for other situations. If a doctor wants to reduce one’s T levels, he will reach for a drug that has a known dose-response.
The use of zinc is something that I have been overlooking… picked up on that when reading books lately. When on TRT with adex, it gets the job done with or without zinc. But zinc has merits in any case.[/quote]
Thank you very much. The input from the knowledgeable people here is really helpful and much appreciated.
I have yet to find a doc that believes in E2 management…I am off all meds for 12 including test, asthma and nasal meds (cortical steroids) and a few weeks after my last test shot and my nipples havn’t quit hurting and itching since.
Anyone know if adex has any influence on cortisol? I have not found any real info on the subject and I actually had a dream about taking some of my grape flavored adex…
If you search for +anastrozole +cortisol you’ll find information telling you that anastrozole (Arimidex) has no effect on basal cortisol levels. This is easy to believe because cortisol is produced by hydroxylase enzymes and not by aromatase.
I found some more stuff last night that says about the same thing so it’s time to break out the adex.