Just got my E2 tests back from LEF and here’s the results.
28 pg/mL against 0-53 range. Have been off of L-Dex for over a month now. How should I dose?
[quote]nc maniac wrote:
Just got my E2 tests back from LEF and here’s the results.
28 pg/mL against 0-53 range. Have been off of L-Dex for over a month now. How should I dose?[/quote]
Whats your current supplement/script plan? HRT?
Newbie me first post. Had to praise the clearest expo on AI/E2 I’ve ever read. Being in the aged category myself with E2
aggravating BPH and my doc out of business
I’ll be going the supplement way myself.
Otta be required reading for all too many
doctors.
Look forward to hearing more from you, B S
Good Luck.
Apologies to all. I had just read the first page of this thread and thought it was the end of the thread so my previous post is way out of sequence. Live and Learn so they say.
Out the Door,
Currently on 100mg test cyp. once/week. Trying to get my Dr. to put me on HCG as well, but not there yet. I do take tribulus, creatine, BCAA’s along with the standard whey protein and a multi-vitamin. Per previous posts have been dealing with extreme fatigue which I was hoping was related to my E2 levels. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be the case.
[quote]Get out the Door wrote:
nc maniac wrote:
Just got my E2 tests back from LEF and here’s the results.
28 pg/mL against 0-53 range. Have been off of L-Dex for over a month now. How should I dose?
Whats your current supplement/script plan? HRT?
[/quote]
You can dump the tribulus, its a moot point at this stage. You would be better off with fish oil + vitamin E.
Trib causes a increase in LH which leads the testicals to produce more T. Since your testicals do not produce T anymore because your on T, its a waste of money. Tribulus in itself is not strong enough to ilicit an LH response to produce T when someone is shutdown on TRT.
Where do you inject at? It might be an issue of injection. Many do not get great responses when using a non AAS inject into the glute. You might want to shoot for the quad if your not already doing so.
You definitely need hcG soon
How are IGF-1 levels
How are FT3 and FT4
If possible, next time you need labs have your doctor go threw Rheinlabs - They use Urinary analysis, instead of blood serum, for readings. Urinary analysis is a much more superior tool labs, much more advanced and accurate than bloodwork when it comes to analysis of androgen levels.
[quote]nc maniac wrote:
Out the Door,
Currently on 100mg test cyp. once/week. Trying to get my Dr. to put me on HCG as well, but not there yet. I do take tribulus, creatine, BCAA’s along with the standard whey protein and a multi-vitamin. Per previous posts have been dealing with extreme fatigue which I was hoping was related to my E2 levels. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be the case.
Get out the Door wrote:
nc maniac wrote:
Just got my E2 tests back from LEF and here’s the results.
28 pg/mL against 0-53 range. Have been off of L-Dex for over a month now. How should I dose?
Whats your current supplement/script plan? HRT?
[/quote]
I bumped my dose up to two (2!) and my libido simply disappeared. WTH am I doing wrong? Help, anyone?
[quote]KSman wrote:
I buy in bulk too. Lipoic acid with that is of great benefit. EFAs such as fish oils are also important for the maintenance of the cell wall. These things help maintain [/quote]
I just want to bring up one minor caveat relating to Alpha Lipoic Acid. Experts on mercury detox, recommend AGAINST supplementing with Alpha Lipoic Acid, if you have mercury ( silver) amalgams in your mouth. Lipoic acid is a chelator of mercury and if you have amalgams the liver, etc, could get overwhelmed.
The hazards concerning mercury amalgams are hotly debated and the American Dental Association disagrees that they are problematic. I do think they are problematic and just wanted to raise this point about the Lipoic Acid. Check out my Mercury Detox thread, if your’re interested in more info about this.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I bumped my dose up to two (2!) and my libido simply disappeared. WTH am I doing wrong? Help, anyone?[/quote]
I believe you went past the “sweet spot”. My close friend takes one drop of liquid adex EOD, because if he takes one drop ED he loses his libido too. If I take less than ten drops a day, my libido starts to fail, so it just shows how different we all respond to adex. At least we all know it works for everybody (so far anyway) some a lot more, and some a lot less, but it always works. I know there are guys it didn’t work for, so please don’t flame this post. I am referring to the guys that had results only.
[quote]KNB wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I bumped my dose up to two (2!) and my libido simply disappeared. WTH am I doing wrong? Help, anyone?
I believe you went past the “sweet spot”. My close friend takes one drop of liquid adex EOD, because if he takes one drop ED he loses his libido too. If I take less than ten drops a day, my libido starts to fail, so it just shows how different we all respond to adex. At least we all know it works for everybody (so far anyway) some a lot more, and some a lot less, but it always works. I know there are guys it didn’t work for, so please don’t flame this post. I am referring to the guys that had results only.[/quote]
No one should flame that. What you wrote is spot on: I forgot that I react A LOT to meds and usually take half-doses. Guess it was my brain-fart time.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
KNB wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I bumped my dose up to two (2!) and my libido simply disappeared. WTH am I doing wrong? Help, anyone?
I believe you went past the “sweet spot”. My close friend takes one drop of liquid adex EOD, because if he takes one drop ED he loses his libido too. If I take less than ten drops a day, my libido starts to fail, so it just shows how different we all respond to adex. At least we all know it works for everybody (so far anyway) some a lot more, and some a lot less, but it always works. I know there are guys it didn’t work for, so please don’t flame this post. I am referring to the guys that had results only.
No one should flame that. What you wrote is spot on: I forgot that I react A LOT to meds and usually take half-doses. Guess it was my brain-fart time.
[/quote]
I’m right between the two of you at 5 drops ED
Great thread btw. I hope to see more threads like this i.e. focus on SHGB or LH or DHT etc. so that we can all link them together as need be. Thanks for putting the work in HD.
I have never seen such high use of adex before. Can you guys PM me with details, mg/ml, pill or liquid, manufacturer or lab?
What TRT, ester, transdermal etc?
I am always looking for more material for my book.
[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
happydog48 wrote:
Don’t forget that your body is programmed to act in different ways at different ages. When you’re a young adult, your body is programmed to keep T high and E low. The amount of aromatase you naturally produce is low. As you get older, you naturally produce more aromatase which starts to drive T down and E up.
Hey, “Amused K-9”: I am definitely on the older side of the house. I’ve been using a mild AI this month and have been feeling more density in the muscles and having more productive workouts than in many months, so you are obviously on to something here!. Now this coming month (May) I’m going to run a “natural” protocol based on the recent “Question of Strength” article by Poliquin, specifically the section “No More Moobs”. I’ll be sytematically introducing what he suggests: ZMA, extra fiber, DIM, D-Glucarate & grape seed, as well as whats left of my REZ-V stash, on top of my usual supps. We’ll see if this works, at least for me, and review/evaluate such at the end of the month…[/quote]
Reporting in for update: Using the compounds mentioned above, I can say that it appears that I have “maintained” more than anything else over the last month. No dramatic reduction of moob-fat, but no gain either. I’m going to keep in the ZMA & fiber, add in liver tabs & BCAAs, and run the Anti-E again this month. Hoping for some good results (crossing fingers & toes)/
That’s it for now, kids…
Hey man, great article, very helpful… In sort of an odd situation here myself Very much in shape, low body fat, never on steriods but am just starting to get a small amount of fat around the nipple area. Now in doing some reasearch, there are so many things I am taking that contribute to this. Sustia (hiv drug) my hair loss pill, propecia, my antidepressant lexpro,and temazepam (sleeping pill)
Just had my labs done to check the hormones which very well may be normal,(will know next week) my testosteone always comes out normal, so I think its the meds causing this. In which case, I do not know if an antiestrogen will help. I am kinda worried cause my doc although one of the best for hiv, knows very little and is even wary of steriod related products.
Anyway do you know if there are any gay folks on here that might be in the same situation? Just looking for a course of treatment to talk over with my doc. The things that would normally work may not work in my situation.
What scares me is some of the info I have come across seems to say after a year or so of the gynecomastia the fatty areas can become fibrous and only removeable with surgery…
propecia: Kills DHT levels and saves hair. Libido can suffer mild or high damage. You need DHT to maintain you sex organs and virility. You need to make a hard decision.
You need E2, TT and FT numbers. I expect that your E2 is getting out of control. Anastrozole can deal with that. Use anastrozole and short term SERM to tackle the gyno, maintain anastrozole long term as required to control E2. E2 in the lower twenties [0-53] is considered optimal for libido and mental functioning. Elevated E2, in the upper 30’s can create serious problems, even with high T levels, leading to ED, low libido, moodiness, depression, low energy, emotional outbursts etc. Lowering E2 to lower 20’s [0-53pg/ml] resolves all of that. This could have some connection to your depression.
SSRIs [lexapro] have major side effects. Try switching to [generic] Wellbutrin which increases dopamine for more energy, no sexual sides and better mood. For sleep, try trazodone [also increases dopamine]. 50mg might work to start, but soon you may need 100mg then later 150mg.
TRT is used with HIV to avoid or recover from muscle wasting, perhaps a concern limited to AIDs.
If you start TRT, add 250iu hCG SC EOD to maintain your testes, this will prevent the loss of the largest single source of pregnenolone in the body [do not confuse with progesterone]. Pregnenolone is used in the brain to create neural steroids that are vital to proper brain functioning.
Print two copies to take to your doc’s for talking points and research these issues on your own.
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KSman ,I printed some of the reports & replys you sent me…Im going to dr. and he will read them…and while I watch ! hey Im paying for the visit…so…lol I know alot of people thank people.so hope this is not watered down…so just want to say
THANK YOU to KSman. His help is worth alot more then the $100 plus doctor visits…
Wow your awesome! Thanks so much!
Wow, it was well written.
Between Happy & KS you guys COULD write a Hormone Therapy for Dummies.
Thanks again for this great article. I suspect something is converting my testosterone into estrogen, I will talk to my doc about the anastrozole, and get her other suggestions once my labs are back.
If she is gonna be super conservative and wait till I really grow “Man Boobs” I will look up anastrozole as a “research chemicle” online and get it myself. In the mean time I am going to go off as many of the meds as I can, I mean something had to give.
It was way to easy just to take a pill for sleeping, stress etc etc. After 20 years almost, its time to give my liver a break. I will not be changing the hiv meds right now so hopefully stopping the others will do the trick, along with adding a little of that anastrozole to get the process sped up.
I am off the propecia right now and will continue off of it only using Rogaine for a while and see how long it lasts. I have great hair, but if I was not on these two meds I would lose a good bit.
I know its a hard decision I am hoping I can go off of everything but the hiv meds and once things resolve I can maybe add a very low dose of the propecia and even do it three months on three months off, to give my body a break.
Came across an article the other day that scared me about propecia and male breast cancer (its already top of the list for gynecomastia) but also I am hearing it may not be the long term testosterone in mens bodies that over the years effects prostate cancer but that it may be the gradual lowering of testosterone thats normal with aging. Just the opposite of what I had heard.
As far as Trazodone, I am on that one as well already, I know, I know I am way over medicated… I usually use a combo of the trazodone and xanax or temazepam for sleep, so i will knock it down to just the trazodone. (did not know that it ups the Dopamine, pretty sure thats a good thing).
As far as the TRT I am one of the lucky few to have never had any problem, cept some side effects from the hiv meds, no muscle wasting although some fat wasting, under control now.
Thanks again for all your help, you are a wealth of knowledge, you rock! Roscoe
,
I’ve come out of my cave and not only started living again but posting and reading again. Shout out to Happydog, KSman and HH for keeping the faith and cutting edge knowledge on HRT.
I'm currently doctorless, last two disappeared on me (anti-aging docs lie on a spectrum from heroes to demons). I've found I do well in the main areas T helps with .5 cc T cyp qweek and 1 mg adex per week, gives me levels of about 800 ish T and E2 about 25-30. I also learned how sensitive sexual function is to overaggressive adex, twice a week killed my erections.
The more I look at my own field (psychiatry), the more I look at dopamine as the other holy grail of male functioning besides testosterone. Just because Big Pharma spent the last two decades raking in billions over the "Serotonin is the key to depression" dogma, SSRI's have only helped half of the depressions I see, and usually with major side effects. Low dopamine usually goes hand in hand with poor sexual health and drive, symptoms which obviously mimic those of low T.
Trouble is, there is no great cure at the moment. Maybe we should have a dopamine thread. Didnt mean to hijack, keep the knowledge and dialogue going on estrogen, it is something we can and must fix. Doc
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