[quote]Beach Billy wrote:
I am, by no means, an expert on this stuff, but I would suspect the low E was an effect of the low t and not the cause - i.e., t aromatizes into e, but not vice versa. Also, total t is pretty worthless without knowing what your free t is. The adex will limit the amount of t that aromatizes.
[/quote]
Well, when I started Adex back in December, my Total T was 752 (or thereabouts) but my Free T was a little low and my E was in the low to mid 30s.
Then in March (after ADEX), my total T was around 830 and my Free T was good, my E was around 24…that was good. I don’t know what my SHBG was at either of those time as I was not measuring it. In any case, my libido was through the roof.
Given that, I don’t see how one could conclude that it is E that it too high that is converting T. It either has to be that my E levels are TOO low at 17 or some other reason.
Okay, part two: The part of the T equation that matters is FREE T, not Total.(as previously stated) You could have a T level of 3000 and if it was mostly “bound” it wouldn’t do zip.
Let’s say you E2 is too low now, and that is the cause of your loss of libido and the obvious achy joints.
Now as long as the E2 stays in check, the “only” potential issue is SHBG. There are many ways to explain SHBG actions, but use this as an example:
There are only so many androgen receptors and they all want the T molecules: as in all the locks want the key to unlock them… but if SHBG is bound to the T, the keys are the “right type” of key but they won’t unlock the lock because the key is “cut wrong”.
So even they “fit” they won’t unlock the door.
I hope this analogy makes sense. So now how to work on SHBG. I use herbs as a compliment to my adex regime.
I know a lot of my previous posts “poo-poo” certain herbs, but the last complete blood test I had (it’s in a previous post) my TT was 1000 or so, my SHBG was mid-range and my free T was sky high past the range of the test given even though my E2 was 69 at the time.
(I had lowered my adex dosage too low) In spite of the fact my E2 was high, my SHBG was good, and my Free T was still high.
So, what’s my point? Get your SHBG down and your free T will come back up, and so will your libido. If you want specifics PM me.
[quote]LeRONIN wrote:
Hey KNB. What kind of herbs are you using for SHBG. Thanks.[/quote]
I use Chasteberry,(aka Vitex) Aveena Sativa,(aka green oats), and Bioperene (aka piperene) to increase absorption of the herbs.
Okay, technically Bioperene doesn’t “increase” the absorption, it increases the half life through less oxidation, therefore increasing the “potential” of the compound to be absorbed.
All I know is; most companies add it to their herbal compounds, so I do too. Do I know the difference with or w/o? No, but it’s so cheap to buy who cares?
There is SHBG bound T and non SHBG bound T, the later is also know as bio-available T. Bio-available T consisted of FT and weakly bound T. Weekly bound T is mostly T that is bound to albumin. It is good to have serum albumin levels near the top of the range. If albumin is low, you might think that FT would be higher; but you just get more SHBG bound T.
Albumin bound T does get free and activates T receptors via a cell local process.
There is an age related decline in albumin. This effect is now known to not be a direct result of aging. Many simply eat less food as they get old and decline in albumin is from eating less foods that support albumin levels. aka malnutrition.
Many things are bound to albumin, including cholesterol, fatty acids, many or most drugs etc. All of the cholesterol derived steroids are probably transported this way.
hello
Had another round of testing come back a few days ago
T serum 782 241-827 range
free T 37 6.8- 21.5
t serum total 939 350- 1030
E 0.49 0.8-3.5
T 4 1.11 .61-1.75
tsh 1.11 .450- 4.5
My T, free T has consistently been very good, I am on 100 of T shots 2x a week.
My E is low , I am on 1 full tab of adex 2x a week, guess I should go to 1/2 tab dosages?
I have not felt quite right [ depression coming back] last week . I se my E is low, guess that could be the cause.
Shouls I ski[p a dose or two of adex to get E up? or go to 1`/2 tablets?
Hey Matt did they test your DHT? I had mine run separately and it hasn’t come back yet. My numbers look similar to your’s but I’m only on 100mg a week. What lab did the test? (Strange ranges) Just for comparison I was taking 2/3mg a week of Adex and my E2 came back at 21(range <29) I just upped it to 1/4mg every other day.
[quote]brentf13 wrote:
Hey Matt did they test your DHT? I had mine run separately and it hasn’t come back yet. My numbers look similar to your’s but I’m only on 100mg a week.
What lab did the test? (Strange ranges) Just for comparison I was taking 2/3mg a week of Adex and my E2 came back at 21(range <29) I just upped it to 1/4mg every other day. [/quote]
never had DHT tested
It was lab corp tests, I think I can multiply by ten to get to the range you are at, some my E2 is 4.5
There is SHBG bound T and non SHBG bound T, the later is also know as bio-available T. Bio-available T consisted of FT and weakly bound T. Weekly bound T is mostly T that is bound to albumin. It is good to have serum albumin levels near the top of the range. If albumin is low, you might think that FT would be higher; but you just get more SHBG bound T.
Albumin bound T does get free and activates T receptors via a cell local process.
There is an age related decline in albumin. This effect is now known to not be a direct result of aging. Many simply eat less food as they get old and decline in albumin is from eating less foods that support albumin levels. aka malnutrition.
Many things are bound to albumin, including cholesterol, fatty acids, many or most drugs etc. All of the cholesterol derived steroids are probably transported this way.
[/quote]
I don’t mind being corrected by you (KSman) at all. I kinda lumped the Free T and bio-available as being the same thing, and you’re right they are not. Just like Free T is the “only” important one, when it’s not.
Thank you for clearing up my mistake, I do appreciate it, as well as clearing up my error for anyone I may have confused.
The metabolizm and clearance of anastrozole is stated to be 83% in the liver. There is some good research about how some drugs are much more potent for some individuals than others. They have genetic variations in the action of liver enzymes. I found some information on how this effects tamoxiphen, stating that 8% of caucasions have the related variation.
But I cannot find information on the specifics of things like this for anastrozole. There is a research paper out there, published this year that looks like it might get into this, but it is not free.
The anastrozole over-reponders would seem to be genetic variation in liver processing. We just do not know the specifics for this drug. For now we can simply say that these people have are “low metabolizers” in some fashion and that they probably can have simular problems with other drugs. In some cases this means that drugs do not clear as fast and a smaller dose is required. And for some other drugs where the drug needs to be metabolised into its active form, the drug may have reduced effectiveness.
HCG is available, but many pharmacists can not get it due to supplier contracts. For example, Costco Pharm could not get it and I was told by them to check other sources. I Did, and found it. Easy to have your scrip transferred. Do a google for HRT pharmacys or compounding pharmacys and you will find it. A lot of these guys are hoarding the supply, to make some extra $$.
These guys had it last time I checked: http://hallandalepharmacy.com/custom_comp.html
There are lengthy discussions about “over/under” responders to adex, and we know about the livers’ part in this, but I needed to explain about Estrogen clearing to a friend last night. Here is the analogy I used:
The Estrogen/Androgen receptors are holding on to the E2 that has been in the bloodstream because the level of E2 in the bloodstream, and the level of the receptors is somewhat equal. (statement for example only)
Introduce an AI (or some SERMS)and the blood serum level of circulating E2 drops rapidly, yet “why don’t I feel it?” is still asked…
The example I used was to fill a sink with salty water (salt equating to Estrogen) and drop in a sponge, after the sponge fills with the saturated “salt” solution, drain the sink w/o touching the sponge (the sponge is the “full” receptors).
Now fill the sink with fresh water (a lowered E2 serum level) and still don’t touch the sponge (because you can’t wring out your cells). It will take time, but eventually the saturated solution in the sponge will give up it’s high concentration of “salt” to the surrounding “water” and will dilute with the “fresh water” in the sink and the two will effectively be at the same level once again.
Before I get flamed here, I realize I overstated the examples intentionally. Yesterday was not the first time I explained how Estrogen clearing works, but I thought this example would make sense to those that are still a little confused.
Yes, you are correct. I’ve talked to the nurse twice and he’s like the doctor said your levels looks fine. Ummmm…ok, but I feel like shit. Could something be stopping the uptake of test? I’m not getting very far here.