Estradiol: Why You Should Care

[quote]Elaikases wrote:
A lot of things look like a waste of money.

Androgel v. Androstenetrione v. Testim v. Andromen v. Prohormones

Andromen is a lot less expensive than Androgel. Pro-hormones would have fit the bill, except they are all pretty much illegal, though your doctor can prescribe them.

Anyway, I’m curious about mild support, the kind one could get with mild doses of pro-hormones, such as 19-norandrostenedione or 1,4-androstadienedione (1,4 AD)(which works well taken orally) when they were more legal.

cf Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition | Home page (an article discussing 6-oxo for mild support – and the fact that those taking it had better looking test results, but no actual impact in their lives).

Androgel seems to result in the drug eventually replacing your natural production as the natural production tapers off in response to the exterior support. Seems almost to be self-defeating, not to mention the estrogen level problems so many people report.

I’m not sure I see much that just offers some support rather than leeching away until it is just a replacement.
[/quote]

Hey bud,

You look like an older gent, I’m assuming 50’s or what not.

I wouldn’t mess with any OTC stuff or what not.

Go see a HRT specialist. I would recommend Dr. Crisler.

[quote]Wise Guy wrote:

Hey bud,

You look like an older gent, I’m assuming 50’s or what not.

I wouldn’t mess with any OTC stuff or what not.

Go see a HRT specialist. I would recommend Dr. Crisler.
[/quote]

Thanks.

I’m 52 and my general practice doctor is a charm. We have a number of HRT specialists who practice in the DFW area.

The problem is that usually my levels are solid. But when I cut my weight under 170, things start to drop, which annoys me. I’m only 5’5" so I want my weight down to 160, I’m just not willing to accept the drop off, so I was thinking support.

But, the OTC stuff all looks pathetic and/or useless.

I’m beginning to think you are right.

Thanks for the push. I’ll let my weight slide back down further and just follow-up with a specialist rather than either count on keeping my weight up or looking for mild OTC results.

Hmm.

Local doctors include Dr. Susan K. Linder over in Fort Worth (part of http://bodylogicmd.wordpress.com/ )

The heavy advertising guys at http://www.wwwantiagingmedicine.com/ including Aveewan Yun DO 6101 Chapel Hill Blvd. Plano, TX 75093 (Tel) 972-312-8881

By mail at $150/month http://healthgainsmd.com/home/

Jeffrey Adelglass, MD, FACS Plano Doctor in Plano Texas - AHB – who looks like a women’s make-up artist

and Dr. Kevin Light with the same group.

I liked the Dallas Morning News on the OTC stuff – basically dissing on it.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-groopman_01edi.ART.State.Edition1.441bb88.html

I’m still looking around, but appreciate the referrals and thoughts.

Chushin, when I did that last, the only fat I got in my diet was from two tablespoons of olive oil a day. Out of about 1800 calories I was getting 240 to 300 from fat or around 15%.

So if I cut the fat back to 20% or so of my calories, it could cause trouble? That would explain why the impact isn’t consistent, I’ve been introducing fat back into my diet from time to time, then letting it slide out except for the olive oil.

Thanks.

No offense but at 52 I think TRT is a good choice and beating around the bush looking for another solution is a waste of time. TRT really isn’t a big deal and it’s certainly worth it once it’s tuned in. I’m still fine tuning mine but feeling way better. By the way I’m 35 and I probably spend a total of 20 minutes a week or less dealing with my TRT. Are you afraid of making the leap?

[quote]Elaikases wrote:
Chushin, when I did that last, the only fat I got in my diet was from two tablespoons of olive oil a day. Out of about 1800 calories I was getting 240 to 300 from fat or around 15%.

So if I cut the fat back to 20% or so of my calories, it could cause trouble? That would explain why the impact isn’t consistent, I’ve been introducing fat back into my diet from time to time, then letting it slide out except for the olive oil.

Thanks.[/quote]

It helps understand the situation if you understand how testosterone is produced in the body. There are a lot of factors that go into it. On the building blocks level, testosterone is made from cholesterol which is, in turn, made from fats.

So it’s entirely possible that a diet very low in fat will hinder natural testosterone production.

It’s not really possible that the only fat in your diet is coming from two tablespoons of olive oil. Almost all foods contain some levels of fat and when it comes to protein, all animal sources contain fat.

This isn’t to say that your diet can’t be low in fat, it’s just to say that if you really want to know, you have to do the research and fond out the true composition of the foods you’re eating. Sites like http://www.nutritiondata.com/ are a good place to go for that.

At the testicle level, there’s your HPTA controlling the release of hormones that signal your testes to produce testosterone and there’s your testicles themselves whose ability to make testosterone may be compromised by age and blood flow.

Let’s not also forget that fat produces estrogen and aromatase, both of which inhibit testosterone, so no matter how it seems now, lowering stored fat levels on your body will improve your hormone profile.

Chushin is right, proper levels of fat in your diet will actually help you lose body fat. Fish oil is known to improve blood flow which will help in lots of ways, so don’t skimp on the fish oil. It’s my number one favorite supplement.

The phrase “testosterone booster” is completely meaningless unless you understand how they work. However they work (or claim to work), it’s important to understand that they MUST work within the confines of your body’s natural systems.

This is just one more reason why it pays to study the workings of the HPTA and how your body really works.

So, testosterone boosters can either work on the control side of the equation or the production side of the equation. They either stimulate or inhibit the workings of the HPTA or they support testicular function.

Supporting testicular function is a dietary thing like the proper amounts of fats in your diet and supporting blood flow and arterial health. Think about that for a minute. Almost all the supplements that “support cardiovascular health” will also support testicular health by keeping your blood flowing.

The vast majority of natural testosterone boosters work on the control side of the equation and that overwhelmingly means aromatase inhibition. Well, aromatase inhibition can, indeed raise testosterone levels.

It’s solid in both theory and practice under the proper circumstances. Whether or not a particular substance really is a good aromatase inhibitor is a separate issue from whether or not aromatase inhibition is a valid strategy for boosting testosterone.

I think I’ve said enough for now. The take away message is keep reading and keep studying because THERE ARE WAYS TO INCREASE YOUR TESTOSTERONE SHORT OF TRT.

There are no easy answers, so go for the complicated ones.

[quote]happydog48 wrote:

when I did that last, the only fat I got in my diet was from two tablespoons of olive oil a day. Out of about 1800 calories I was getting 240 to 300 from fat or around 15%.

It’s not really possible that the only fat in your diet is coming from two tablespoons of olive oil. Almost all foods contain some levels of fat and when it comes to protein, all animal sources contain fat.

This isn’t to say that your diet can’t be low in fat, it’s just to say that if you really want to know, you have to do the research and fond out the true composition of the foods you’re eating. Sites like http://www.nutritiondata.com/ are a good place to go for that.

At the testicle level, there’s your HPTA controlling the release of hormones that signal your testes to produce testosterone and there’s your testicles themselves whose ability to make testosterone may be compromised by age and blood flow.

I think I’ve said enough for now. The take away message is keep reading and keep studying because THERE ARE WAYS TO INCREASE YOUR TESTOSTERONE SHORT OF TRT.

There are no easy answers, so go for the complicated ones.
[/quote]

Thanks, I’ll keep learning.

On my diet, I was mostly eating non-fat yogurt, sweetened with sugar. A few grams of fat here and there I’m sure (especially in the supplements and vitamins), but not very much more than those two tablespoons.

I’ve since read the studies about the health problems of non-fat milk and low-fat diets, so I’ve made adjustments, dropped all the sugar out (I was using about a cup a day while losing weight) and I’ve been working fat back in.

I’m going to pay attention to the complicated answers then. Thanks. My blood flow remains good, I still do not bruise from hits that pick me off my feet. All my recent blood work labs were within the target goals (triglycerides at 50 for example).

But, I’ve moved my fish oil up to 3 grams a day, and I’ll do a lot more reading. There is just so much garbage out there. Arghhh.

Thanks again though!

I am a 32 year old male and I think that I have many of the symptoms that are associated with High Estradiol levels.

Anyway…to the point. After considerable effort I managed to persuade the NHS doctor (I live in the UK) to get me checked for testosterone and estradiol levels. I wanted to check free testosterone as well and did mentioned it but he ignored me. Anyway I was just happy that he agreed to test test & estr. and did not want to push my luck.

I just got the results:
Serum testosterone 24.3 nmol/L
Serum oestradiol level 74 pmol/L

The doc reassures me that everything is fine and within the acceptable levels and he is not willing to invistigate anything futher.
I am trying to do some research on my own but I find it hard. First of all I dont understand that nmol/l & pmol/L.
Is that a different metric system?

The reference ranges in most of the articles are in ng/dl & pg/mL.
I would appreciate any help.
Thanks in advance.

mols are a count of molecules, in this case [n|p]mols per Liter. This is better than weight per unit volume, but many are not familiar with the use of mols.

Did the lab report also list the lab ranges? That context is important. Please post that. You should always get copies of the original lab resports.

http://enotes.tripod.com/hypogonadism.htm

“The most available and commonly used blood measurement of testosterone is serum total testosterone. The normal range of a young adult male population varies for different laboratories but should be in the general range of 300 to 1000 ng/dL (10 to 38 nmol/L).”

elsewhere: “Serum estradiol was within the normal range (73�??275 pmol/l [20�??75 pg/ml])”

Your numbers look to be ok. Note that different labs and methods produce different results. This can create problems.

Thanks KSman

The reference ranges for serum testosterone according to NHS is 8.6-35.0 nmol/l (mine was 24.3)
They do not provide reference ranges for estradiol in males at all.

I don’t know about the numbers but something just doesn’t feel right. I can ‘tick’ many of the symptoms that are associated with high estrogen levels. I also have a mild case of gynecomastia from my teens that never got away…And no, I am not fat.

Far from it…I am 5’11 and weight 71kgs. I can see my abs but I have noticeable fat in my hips and hamstrings. (Female fat distribution pattern)
I guess I just need to keep investigating and pushing the doctors.

[quote]solepurpose wrote:
Thanks KSman

The reference ranges for serum testosterone according to NHS is 8.6-35.0 nmol/l (mine was 24.3)
They do not provide reference ranges for estradiol in males at all.

I don’t know about the numbers but something just doesn’t feel right. I can ‘tick’ many of the symptoms that are associated with high estrogen levels. I also have a mild case of gynecomastia from my teens that never got away…And no, I am not fat.

Far from it…I am 5’11 and weight 71kgs. I can see my abs but I have noticeable fat in my hips and hamstrings. (Female fat distribution pattern)
I guess I just need to keep investigating and pushing the doctors.
[/quote]

You can try Anastrozole/Arimidex, but you will not get that from a doctor for a ‘non-existent’ problem. You will need to go underground for that. As a trial, it will make you feel better or worse and is of diagnostic value in that regard.

If you have low energy and perhaps feel cold at times that does not seem right, you could have low thyroid levels. Hypogondism and hypothyroidism share many symptoms. If you get some anastrozole, start with .5mg/week in divided doses. The puzzing thing is that your E2 is at the low end of the range now, but others familiar with E2 labs there might have a different view of things.

Do you get iodine in your diet?
-seafood
-iodized salt

[quote]KSman wrote:
solepurpose wrote:
Thanks KSman

The reference ranges for serum testosterone according to NHS is 8.6-35.0 nmol/l (mine was 24.3)
They do not provide reference ranges for estradiol in males at all.

I don’t know about the numbers but something just doesn’t feel right. I can ‘tick’ many of the symptoms that are associated with high estrogen levels. I also have a mild case of gynecomastia from my teens that never got away…And no, I am not fat.

Far from it…I am 5’11 and weight 71kgs. I can see my abs but I have noticeable fat in my hips and hamstrings. (Female fat distribution pattern)
I guess I just need to keep investigating and pushing the doctors.

You can try Anastrozole/Arimidex, but you will not get that from a doctor for a ‘non-existent’ problem. You will need to go underground for that. As a trial, it will make you feel better or worse and is of diagnostic value in that regard.

If you have low energy and perhaps feel cold at times that does not seem right, you could have low thyroid levels. Hypogondism and hypothyroidism share many symptoms. If you get some anastrozole, start with .5mg/week in divided doses. The puzzing thing is that your E2 is at the low end of the range now, but others familiar with E2 labs there might have a different view of things.

Do you get iodine in your diet?
-seafood
-iodized salt

[/quote]

I will probably try Arimidex at some point. Yes, I have come to realise that I am not going to get that from a doctor.

I must confess that I don’t eat much seafood except from the occasional farmed salmon. (I cannot afford wild salmon at the moment).
I don’t use sea salt either, in fact I do not use any kind of salt. Am I missing something? I thought food had enough sodium on its own.

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
Elaikases wrote:


The vast majority of natural testosterone boosters work on the control side of the equation and that overwhelmingly means aromatase inhibition. Well, aromatase inhibition can, indeed raise testosterone levels.

It’s solid in both theory and practice under the proper circumstances. Whether or not a particular substance really is a good aromatase inhibitor is a separate issue from whether or not aromatase inhibition is a valid strategy for boosting testosterone.

[/quote]

At last!!!

[quote]solepurpose wrote:

I just got the results:
Serum testosterone 24.3 nmol/L
Serum oestradiol level 74 pmol/L

The doc reassures me that everything is fine and within the acceptable levels and he is not willing to invistigate anything futher.
I am trying to do some research on my own but I find it hard. First of all I dont understand that nmol/l & pmol/L.
Is that a different metric system?

The reference ranges in most of the articles are in ng/dl & pg/mL.
I would appreciate any help.
Thanks in advance.

[/quote]

…if you do want to compare your levels (SI units) to the more ‘Americanized’ levels (conventional units), the conversion factors are as such:

Testosterone ng/dL 0.0347 nmol/L
Estradiol pg/mL 3.671 pmol/L

So in your case:

Test = 24.3 nmol/L / 0.347 = 700.29 ng/dL
E2 = 74 pmol/L / 3.671 = 20.16 pg/mL

Both levels appear quite normal. You have a 35 to 1 ratio of test to E2. Some and/or most guys would kill for numbers like that!

Question. I had my testosterone tested a few months back.
It was in the 800s (I am not on synthetic T, BTW). As you know, I have been doing anastrazole since December.

Now, I had my T and E tested a month ago. My T had gone down over a hundred points (it was at 680) but my estradiol was down to 17!!!

I assume that the reason my T went down so drastically was because my estradiol got so low. So, I have now taken a week off from anastrazole. Do you think that is long enough to get my estradiol levels back up? Or do you think I should wait a little longer?

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Question. I had my testosterone tested a few months back.
It was in the 800s (I am not on synthetic T, BTW). As you know, I have been doing anastrazole since December.

Now, I had my T and E tested a month ago. My T had gone down over a hundred points (it was at 680) but my estradiol was down to 17!!!

I assume that the reason my T went down so drastically was because my estradiol got so low. So, I have now taken a week off from anastrazole. Do you think that is long enough to get my estradiol levels back up? Or do you think I should wait a little longer?[/quote]

Are you having joint pain, libido loss, achy joints, or “fuzzy” headed-ness? If not you may be in the sweet spot for E2 even though you are less than 20. I am not going to contradict the suggested 20-25 E2 level that has been discussed here many times, you may be best at 17, where I may be best at 25…
I find it hard to believe that the introduction of adex has lowered your Total T level, as it usually will raise it. There may be another cause, ie., what is your SHBG, do you know?
I could be wrong too, but “classically” your results are deviant from the norm.

[quote]KNB wrote:

Are you having joint pain, libido loss, achy joints, or “fuzzy” headed-ness? If not you may be in the sweet spot for E2 even though you are less than 20. I am not going to contradict the suggested 20-25 E2 level that has been discussed here many times, you may be best at 17, where I may be best at 25…
I find it hard to believe that the introduction of adex has lowered your Total T level, as it usually will raise it. There may be another cause, ie., what is your SHBG, do you know?
I could be wrong too, but “classically” your results are deviant from the norm.

[/quote]

Well, at first, it raised my testosterone, which is why I think that this low E level must play some role in lowering my T. I have had in the past a couple of episodes where I would be aching after taking too much anastrazole, but that is not the case now. I have recently noticed less libido. I was surprised to see my estradiol at 17. Yes,That’s why I am now taking a week off (actually today is my 8th day)…I will probably start taking it again tomorrow.

And, yes, my SHBG is high. It is 49, on a range of 17-40.
I am not too sure what is causing that.

[quote]entheogens wrote:
I assume that the reason my T went down so drastically was because my estradiol got so low. So, I have now taken a week off from anastrazole. Do you think that is long enough to get my estradiol levels back up? Or do you think I should wait a little longer?[/quote]

I am, by no means, an expert on this stuff, but I would suspect the low E was an effect of the low t and not the cause - i.e., t aromatizes into e, but not vice versa. Also, total t is pretty worthless without knowing what your free t is. The adex will limit the amount of t that aromatizes.