Escalation in Israel

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
721

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.

722

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
British people know that killing civilians is wrong.

[/quote]

LMAO!

Since when?[/quote]

Well the vote against bombing Assad was one clear turning point. One can only shudder at the thought of ISIS controlling Assad’s chemical weapons (which are now safely being destroyed on an American navy ship) if the British vote hadn’t put the brakes on the Americans and the French.

[/quote]

So…Assad’s war has killed more than 160,000 people, and since the British Parliament’s brave vote, how many more have been killed? Hard to know, since the UN gave up counting about 8 months ago. One guess is 40,000 more. So the British vote put a brake on exactly what? Do you think that the brave Mother of Parliaments caused 60,000 more deaths since last summer, or prevented some imagined number?
Inaction is also a cause of disaster, but it hides in a cloak of irresponsibility.

[/quote]

How many people do you think would have been killed had Assad been deposed and his weapons snapped up by ISIS?

There is a reason that Israel did not shout particularly loudly for Assad to be deposed.

723

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
From where Britain was 100 years ago, [/quote]

lol, yes.

“My country has been pretty swell in the short time frame I choose to pay attention to, so I’ll forget the totality of human history and even the same government sponsored violence I’m speaking out about.”

lol[/quote]

Again, British people don’t do the civilisational thing. Britain in 1850 is no more ‘my country’ than France was in 1066.

724

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:…
How many people do you think would have been killed had Assad been deposed and his weapons snapped up by ISIS?
[/quote]
I don’t know, and by the way, neither do you.
Maybe ISIS would have been wiped out by their friends, or their enemies, or Assad himself.
Maybe you will jump to some other topic, a squirrel in confusion.

And I am sure, squirrelbench, you have an answer and a theory and another analogy. But I am simply not interested in your trenchant analysis. Save it for the madrasa.

725

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are.

726

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

Again, British people don’t do the civilisational thing. Britain in 1850 is no more ‘my country’ than France was in 1066.
[/quote]

lol, right. You basically reinforced what I just said. Thanks.

I’m well aware people in Britain ignore the history of governments, including their own.

They gave up their guns…

727

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

And I am sure, squirrelbench, you have an answer and a theory and another analogy. But I am simply not interested in your trenchant analysis. Save it for the madrasa. [/quote]

Yawn, it isn’t really very credible when you start pretending your opponent is a Muslim or an Arab. You could of course provide evidence that bombing Assad would have removed the nasty Islamist groups in Syria and it would quickly become a secular and peaceful democracy. But of course, this case is obviously impossible to make. Israel didn’t want Assad removed that much because the power vacuum would have lead to total collapse which terrorists thrive in, and there would be far more dead (plus greater risk for Israel if radical ISIS found Assad’s chemical weapons).

728

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are. [/quote]

And thus, dear readers, we see the results of cousins marrying.

729

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are. [/quote]

And for the Israelis the conflict has nothing to do with race. Just as for the English(who are mostly of Anglo-Saxon(Germanic) ancestry) the Second World War had nothing to do with race.

730

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Nor do I believe the quote attributed to Pelosi.

Anyone else is free to believe what they want to.

Mufasa
[/quote]

You should, she said it on the news. Watch the video: Pelosi: Qataris Have Told Me 'Hamas Is a Humanitarian Organization'

731

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

Again, British people don’t do the civilisational thing. Britain in 1850 is no more ‘my country’ than France was in 1066.
[/quote]

lol, right. You basically reinforced what I just said. Thanks.

I’m well aware people in Britain ignore the history of governments, including their own.

They gave up their guns… [/quote]

History to many Americans is like sex is to a virgin: inconceivable, because they don’t have it.

732

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
Yawn, it isn’t really very credible when you start pretending your opponent is a Muslim or an Arab.

[/quote]

Yawn, it isn’t really very credible when you start pretending you didn’t just try and refute an argument by making thinly veiled insults at people’s cultural back ground, and then turn around and try and tell someone else their argument is invalid for doing what you just did.

733

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are. [/quote]

And thus, dear readers, we see the results of cousins marrying.[/quote]

So… he just totally went from saying Israel is racist, to proving it isn’t because of race, in the span of a page and a half?

I mean, is that what happened, or am I missing something?

734

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Nor do I believe the quote attributed to Pelosi.

Anyone else is free to believe what they want to.

Mufasa
[/quote]

You should, she said it on the news. Watch the video: Pelosi: Qataris Have Told Me 'Hamas Is a Humanitarian Organization'
[/quote]

Mufasa is no longer denying it. He’s now switched to defending it. I believe the argument is “even though she said it without qualification the reason she said it without qualification is…” And that’s where it ends.

735

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are. [/quote]

And for the Israelis the conflict has nothing to do with race. Just as for the English(who are mostly of Anglo-Saxon(Germanic) ancestry) the Second World War had nothing to do with race.[/quote]

Well its a bit of a one sided analysis. The Second World War was a rejection of the German conception of race. It certainly wasn’t race neutral.

What actually makes someone a Jew is highly difficult to disentangle. Which is one of the things that makes debating Israel so difficult.

736

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

Again, British people don’t do the civilisational thing. Britain in 1850 is no more ‘my country’ than France was in 1066.
[/quote]

lol, right. You basically reinforced what I just said. Thanks.

I’m well aware people in Britain ignore the history of governments, including their own.

They gave up their guns… [/quote]

History to many Americans is like sex is to a virgin: inconceivable, because they don’t have it.

[/quote]

Dude, you are struggling so hard here to look smart. Just give up.

Governments, particularly those evil colonialist (you brought up, but forgot the vast majority of major civilizations were just that) have done atrocity after atrocity on innocent people, over and over again, since the dawn of civilization. After I allude to this, and the fact you are ignoring it and pretending it can’t happen again, even as you cry about Israel doing it, you make some statement about Britain not being your country, and another racist personal attack on Americans.

Lol, I give up. Yes, I have no understanding of human history, that is why I made for of the Brits for rolling over and giving the government their freedom… lol, Yeah, that’s the ticket.

737

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are. [/quote]

And thus, dear readers, we see the results of cousins marrying.[/quote]

So… he just totally went from saying Israel is racist, to proving it isn’t because of race, in the span of a page and a half?

I mean, is that what happened, or am I missing something?[/quote]

Were the Hutu’s and the Tutsi’s racist and in a racist conflict? Yes. Were they in fact exactly the same and equally human? Yes. Where did the diea of race come from? Belguim colonialists told them they were a different race and what race was.

There is no such thing as race. But that doesn’t mean that other people cannot say ‘yes there is’ and act in a racist way because of it.

738

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are. [/quote]

And for the Israelis the conflict has nothing to do with race. Just as for the English(who are mostly of Anglo-Saxon(Germanic) ancestry) the Second World War had nothing to do with race.[/quote]

Well its a bit of a one sided analysis. The Second World War was a rejection of the German conception of race. It certainly wasn’t race neutral.

What actually makes someone a Jew is highly difficult to disentangle. Which is one of the things that makes debating Israel so difficult. [/quote]

Not really. What makes someone a Jew in the religious sense? Someone who is a descendent of the Israelites on the maternal line or a convert to Judaism. What makes someone Jewish in an ethnic sense? Someone who is descended from the Israelites.

739

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

Again, British people don’t do the civilisational thing. Britain in 1850 is no more ‘my country’ than France was in 1066.
[/quote]

lol, right. You basically reinforced what I just said. Thanks.

I’m well aware people in Britain ignore the history of governments, including their own.

They gave up their guns… [/quote]

History to many Americans is like sex is to a virgin: inconceivable, because they don’t have it.

[/quote]

Dude, you are struggling so hard here to look smart. Just give up.

Governments, particularly those evil colonialist (you brought up, but forgot the vast majority of major civilizations were just that) have done atrocity after atrocity on innocent people, over and over again, since the dawn of civilization. After I allude to this, and the fact you are ignoring it and pretending it can’t happen again, even as you cry about Israel doing it, you make some statement about Britain not being your country, and another racist personal attack on Americans.

Lol, I give up. Yes, I have no understanding of human history, that is why I made for of the Brits for rolling over and giving the government their freedom… lol, Yeah, that’s the ticket. [/quote]

All countries have done bad things in the past. Some countries have reached a stage where they should know better. Israel is one of those countries. Its as simple as that really. Britain should know better too e.g. Iraq. It seems that Britain knew better over Syria. Israel actually seems to be doing worse things as time goes on!

740

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The Israeli law of return unequivocally cements race at the center of the narrative.

[/quote]

How so? The majority of Mizrahim are of Arab descent are they not?
[/quote]

Nope. Mizrahim are not Arabs who have converted to Judaism, which they would have to be to prove the point you are trying to make.

Race isn’t simply about skin colour.
[/quote]

Actually it’s more complex than that. I’d be interested in what Jewbacca or someone more knowledgeable than me has to say but my understanding is that Israelites and Arabs are very closely related. The biblical account is that they are both Shemites and both descended from Abraham. The DNA evidence confirms a very close relationship as well. Additionally, many Mizrahim are descendants of Arabs who converted to Judaism.[/quote]

Well yes, the only difference between Jews and Arabs in some Jewish religious texts is that one says Shibboleth and the other Sibboleth, which rather poignantly shows the utter banality and pointlessness of the current conflict, and how artificial the imposed differences are. [/quote]

And for the Israelis the conflict has nothing to do with race. Just as for the English(who are mostly of Anglo-Saxon(Germanic) ancestry) the Second World War had nothing to do with race.[/quote]

Well its a bit of a one sided analysis. The Second World War was a rejection of the German conception of race. It certainly wasn’t race neutral.

What actually makes someone a Jew is highly difficult to disentangle. Which is one of the things that makes debating Israel so difficult. [/quote]

Not really. What makes someone a Jew in the religious sense? Someone who is a descendent of the Israelites on the maternal line or a convert to Judaism. What makes someone Jewish in an ethnic sense? Someone who is descended from the Israelites.
[/quote]

Ethnicity is essentially the same as race. You can have Israeli citizenship on the basis of being Israeli by ethnicity. Thus Israel does have a racial element!