Escalation in Israel

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
681

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I just thought this was effective.[/quote]

The Queen’s uncle was assassinated by the IRA. Senior political figures were killed and many more were disabled in the Brighton Hotel bombing. Mny innocent civillians were killed. No one knew where the next bomb was going to go off, or when the next violence would start.

What did the British do? Negotiated a peaceful political settlement with respect to the other sides view. Has it been better for both sides since peace? Definitely. British people know that killing civilians is wrong.

Almost every person in Britain who saw that imagine immediately thought of the Brighton Hotel bombed and an Israeli flag flying over it, then Belfast flattened to the ground with 1000s of innocents dead, and then realized how mad the Israeli assault on Gaza is…

[/quote]

Not even close to being comparable. Not even remotely close.

You oughta be ashamed. That was so very, very weak. Try deadlifting.
[/quote]

Lets look at the numbers (lets say we think Israel’s position and the British governments position are broadly equivocal).

1987-2011 Israel responsible for about 8000 Palestinians killed, against 1400 Israelis killed.
1969-2001 British Gov and associated groups responsible for about 1400 killed, with IRA groups etc responsible for about 2100 killed.

If the British government acted like the Israeli government, there would have been about 7466 killed. So the numbers are pretty similar.

682

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

The problem is that when people see images like that, juxtaposed with images of dead women and children who were killed by Hamas terror simply because they were not Arab, they don’t tend to see Hamas actions very favorably. [/quote]

My example of moral equivalency. Enjoy.[/quote]

Well some people are happy with moral equivalency, but it doesn’t really work without numerical equivalency. The argument might work if 1000 Israelis and 1000 people in Gaza had been killed in the last two weeks, but it doesn’t work when there are 1000 dead people in Gaza and 33 dead people in Israel.

684

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I just thought this was effective.[/quote]

The Queen’s uncle was assassinated by the IRA. Senior political figures were killed and many more were disabled in the Brighton Hotel bombing. Mny innocent civillians were killed. No one knew where the next bomb was going to go off, or when the next violence would start.

What did the British do? Negotiated a peaceful political settlement with respect to the other sides view. Has it been better for both sides since peace? Definitely. British people know that killing civilians is wrong.

Almost every person in Britain who saw that imagine immediately thought of the Brighton Hotel bombed and an Israeli flag flying over it, then Belfast flattened to the ground with 1000s of innocents dead, and then realized how mad the Israeli assault on Gaza is…

[/quote]

Not even close to being comparable. Not even remotely close.

You oughta be ashamed. That was so very, very weak. Try deadlifting.
[/quote]

The writer must resort to historical analogy, however inapposite, because he has no other thought. Just outrage.

So, by arguing by analogy, are we to believe:
–Israel should choose to negotiate with the IRA in 1978?
–Britain was posed with an existential threat of missiles sent from Derry? And then conceded–what?–its entire landmass?
–Hamas should substitute rockets for bombing bars in Liverpool, because that is so much more ethical?

No. The writer believes that 2/3 of Israel should be subject to random bombing, that Hamas should terrorize its own population* and hold them hostage, until…what? Why, until the Jews are expunged, because that is the reason for Hamas.

*Note please: there are now reports of Hamas executing Gazan who have protested against them, for “supporting the enemy.” This is entirely plausible, given what was done to Fatah supporters in 2006-2007.
And I don’t need to analogize to the IRA.

[/quote]

Just google map of Israel-Palestine showing land changes between Israel’s initial establishment and now. It doesn’t actually matter whether Hamas SAY they want to wipe Israel out and take all their territory and pose an existential threat to them, when Israel HAS actually wiped much of Palestine out, displaced its population and with every illegal settlement destroys it a little bit more.

Look at the actions, not the words.

686

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
juxtaposed with images of dead women and children who were killed by Israeli bombs simply because they were not Jewish [/quote]

lmao again!

Please, keep going I’m at work for a while longer[/quote]

I’m the biggest supporter of a one state solution with a law of return for both Palestinians and Jews encompassing the current territory of Israel and Palestine. Surely the Israeli’s would not reject this simply because the Palestinians aren’t Jewish?

687

[quote]Chushin wrote:
[i]Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?

BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire – silence will be met with silence.[/i]

BO: Within a week of the end of Israelâ??s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israelâ??s commitment to removing the siege and restrictions on Gaza.

Nancy Pelosi: The Qataris have assured me again and again that Hamas is a humanitarian organisation.

This administration is beyond belief. The Qataris are funding Hamas and Hamas has headquarters there under Qatar’s protection.

689

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
juxtaposed with images of dead women and children who were killed by Israeli bombs simply because they were not Jewish [/quote]

lmao again!

Please, keep going I’m at work for a while longer[/quote]

I’m the biggest supporter of a one state solution with a law of return for both Palestinians and Jews encompassing the current territory of Israel and Palestine. Surely the Israeli’s would not reject this simply because the Palestinians aren’t Jewish?[/quote]

They would reject it because they’re not utterly insane. The Palestinians democratically elected Hamas. A Palestinian majority in Israel would do likewise.

690

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
Surely the Israeli’s would not reject this simply because the Palestinians aren’t Jewish?[/quote]

You’re begging the question, and ignoring the fact that a second party would have to agree to such a situation in order to paint your progressive narrative.

Just in case you haven’t noticed, not every action in the world is driven by choices and considerations based on race.

And every time a progressive like yourself plays the race card inappropriately, which is a majority of the time, another law abiding American citizen purchases a modern sporting rifle and teaches two people how to use it. So by my count that is like 6 rifles sold and 12 more people knowing how to use them.

(That last part is fake, but as long as we’re playing fairy tales here, I want one with a happy ending.)

692

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
British people know that killing civilians is wrong.

[/quote]

LMAO!

Since when?[/quote]

Well the vote against bombing Assad was one clear turning point. One can only shudder at the thought of ISIS controlling Assad’s chemical weapons (which are now safely being destroyed on an American navy ship) if the British vote hadn’t put the brakes on the Americans and the French.

693

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
[i]Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?

BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire – silence will be met with silence.[/i]

BO: Within a week of the end of Israelâ??s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israelâ??s commitment to removing the siege and restrictions on Gaza.

Nancy Pelosi: The Qataris have assured me again and again that Hamas is a humanitarian organisation.

This administration is beyond belief. The Qataris are funding Hamas and Hamas has headquarters there under Qatar’s protection.[/quote]

Pretty sure both sides have said this translation of the conversation that was “leaked” was horseshit. I dont’ know for sure tho.

694

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
British people know that killing civilians is wrong.

[/quote]

LMAO!

Since when?[/quote]

Note that this was AFTER blaming the “colonialist” for all the world’s ills.

695

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
[i]Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?

BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire – silence will be met with silence.[/i]

BO: Within a week of the end of Israelâ??s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israelâ??s commitment to removing the siege and restrictions on Gaza.

Nancy Pelosi: The Qataris have assured me again and again that Hamas is a humanitarian organisation.

This administration is beyond belief. The Qataris are funding Hamas and Hamas has headquarters there under Qatar’s protection.[/quote]

This transcript is beyond belief.

I don’t believe it’s complete accuracy and authenticity for even one second.

Nor do I believe the quote attributed to Pelosi.

Anyone else is free to believe what they want to.

Mufasa

697

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
[i]Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?

BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire – silence will be met with silence.[/i]

BO: Within a week of the end of Israel�¢??s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israel�¢??s commitment to removing the siege and restrictions on Gaza.

Nancy Pelosi: The Qataris have assured me again and again that Hamas is a humanitarian organisation.

This administration is beyond belief. The Qataris are funding Hamas and Hamas has headquarters there under Qatar’s protection.[/quote]

Pretty sure both sides have said this translation of the conversation that was “leaked” was horseshit. I dont’ know for sure tho. [/quote]

I don’t know about the translation of the Bibi/Barack dialogue but the Nancy Pelosi quote is genuine. I heard it myself in an interview she gave recently.

698

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
British people know that killing civilians is wrong.

[/quote]

LMAO!

Since when?[/quote]

Well the vote against bombing Assad was one clear turning point.
[/quote]

I thought the entire crux of your argument was the whole Irish Bombing stuff, but now it’s years later and dealing with Assad?

You’re all over the map man. Peg one thing down and stick with it.

699

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I don’t know about the translation of the Bibi/Barack dialogue but the Nancy Pelosi quote is genuine. I heard it myself in an interview she gave recently.[/quote]

That is my understanding as well. B&B was bunk, but Nancy even doubled down on it later I believe.

700

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
[i]Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.

Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?

BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire – silence will be met with silence.[/i]

BO: Within a week of the end of Israel�¢??s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israel�¢??s commitment to removing the siege and restrictions on Gaza.

Nancy Pelosi: The Qataris have assured me again and again that Hamas is a humanitarian organisation.

This administration is beyond belief. The Qataris are funding Hamas and Hamas has headquarters there under Qatar’s protection.[/quote]

This transcript is beyond belief.

I don’t believe it’s complete accuracy and authenticity for even one second.

Nor do I believe the quote attributed to Pelosi.

Anyone else is free to believe what they want to.

Mufasa
[/quote]

The Pelosi quote is 100% genuine. I heard the actual audio interview myself yesterday.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/29/is-hamas-a-humanitarian-organization-nancy-pelosis-rambling-answer-about-the-israel-conflict/