Most of a chivalric code has little or nothing to do with women.
[/quote]
And marriage had little to do love for most of it’s existence. Does that mean I can ignore its modern application (love marriages) just to suit my argument too?
What I have outlined above is exactly how chivalry has been applied during the last couple of centuries. It’s the reason women were given preference on life boats, or as little as my grandfather’s generation a man would get his lights punched out for cursing in the presence of woman. These behaviors and belief systems are based on the original chivalric code from medieval Europe. I mean, why do you think there are hordes of men who feel OBLIGATED to give up their seat to one sex but not the other?
Most of a chivalric code has little or nothing to do with women.
[/quote]
And marriage had little to do love for most of it’s existence. Does that mean I can ignore its modern application (love marriages) just to suit my argument too?
What I have outlined above is exactly how chivalry has been applied during the last couple of centuries. It’s the reason women were given preference on life boats, or as little as my grandfather’s generation a man would get his lights punched out for cursing in the presence of woman. These behaviors and belief systems are based on the original chivalric code from medieval Europe. I mean, why do you think there are hordes of men who feel OBLIGATED to give up their seat to one sex but not the other?
[/quote]
But you are. In one sense you want to use it as nothing more than what’s considered proper or good manners or what have you and I agree this is how its modernly construed. Then you are trying to hook into an archaic interpretation(a bad one in fact since it really was never interpreted in this way) that woman that benefited from chivalry had a returning obligation to be some traditional version of womanhood that you believe at one time existed.
[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
I’d also say, regarding the be: Super-duper-nice to people even if they are not nice to you:
About a year ago I was queuing up in a shop (almost at the till) & I momementarily broke out of the queue to grab an extra item. I rejoinjed the queue a few seconds later & TECHNICALLY cut in front of some dude. Initially, the guy said nothing, though, just as I was about to leave, the guy in response to the cashiers question:
‘How are you doing’? said: ‘I’m ok, apart from people cutting in front of me!’.
I turned around & apologized.
Bottom line is, as much as that lil fella was a bit passive-aggressive in ‘calling me out’ for acting like a dick, he was completely right to do so.
Sometimes, even the best of people need a lil wake up call.[/quote]
Why didn’t you just say “hey mate (that is what you guys say right?) I forgot my crumpets and need to grab some real quick. Do you mind holding my spot in line? Ill be right back.”
[quote]therajraj wrote:
If a healthy 38 year old male asked you for your seat would giving up your seat stil be the right thing to do?
Why or why not?[/quote]
Because you can’t see if he’s actually healthy. Blown knee? Back?
I tend to offer my seat to anyone old, female, pregnant, visibly impaired and especially children. I have never had anyone respond negatively to the offer.
Now for the F’d up part. I have felt bad about not offering seat when I’ve been ill, injured, or blocked in…
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Jackie i dont think you know what chivalry is. you are using it synonymously with goodwill.
Men were chivalrous only towards women they considered worthy -those who are chaste, pure of reputation, monogamously loyal and delicate of manners. When a man holds open a door for a woman, or carries her heavy bags, he is doing so under the guise of an implicit pact between himself and all of womenkind. He assumes her relative weakness, modesty and submissiveness, and she assumes his strength and leadership. There is an unspoken agreement that both sides will hold up their end of the bargain. Implicit, too, in chivalry is a subconscious awareness that women are reproductively more valuable than men. Without a man?s confidence in these assumptions, the rationale for chivalry, and the desire to grant it, dissipate like the memories of so many one night stands.
So I ask, are you willing to hold up your end of the bargain Jackie?[/quote]
This is wrong. The reason why men showed respect towards women was because there was a man, or men, who would make you answer for it if you didn’t. Disrespecting a man’s wife is the same as disrespecting the man. Disrespecting a man’s daughter is disrespecting him.
It’s easy to separate the men on here who are married and/or have daughters or who don’t have issues with women. I give up my seat because I expect someone else to do the same for my wife, daughter, mother, grandmother. There is a cure for those who have problems with manly behavior, it’s called a sex change.
It’s also funny to read someone say he would give up his seat to a pregnant woman. Well, you can’t always tell if a woman is pregnant by looking at her so what do you do then?
It’s also funny to read someone say he would give up his seat to a pregnant woman. Well, you can’t always tell if a woman is pregnant by looking at her so what do you do then? [/quote]
Do what you can.
Perfect is the enemy of good…
It has NOTHING to do with the men in they’re life and everything to do with who I am.
Politeness and consideration are given freely as that is who I am…
But respect, nah, that’s something one earns. Giving it freely cheapens it…
[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
I’d also say, regarding the be: Super-duper-nice to people even if they are not nice to you:
About a year ago I was queuing up in a shop (almost at the till) & I momementarily broke out of the queue to grab an extra item. I rejoinjed the queue a few seconds later & TECHNICALLY cut in front of some dude. Initially, the guy said nothing, though, just as I was about to leave, the guy in response to the cashiers question:
‘How are you doing’? said: ‘I’m ok, apart from people cutting in front of me!’.
I turned around & apologized.
Bottom line is, as much as that lil fella was a bit passive-aggressive in ‘calling me out’ for acting like a dick, he was completely right to do so.
Sometimes, even the best of people need a lil wake up call.[/quote]
Why didn’t you just say “hey mate (that is what you guys say right?) I forgot my crumpets and need to grab some real quick. Do you mind holding my spot in line? Ill be right back.”
That always works.
[/quote]
lol, that is pretty much what I should have done…though…I had my head my up my arse that day…so…ya know. I was kinda glad the fella called me out on my queuing faux-pas.
[quote]dirtman wrote:
I have been taking the bus to save money. Today an older women in her late 40’s early 50’s said. I should give up my seat for a lady. I told her she fought for equality and I am sitting. It was a pack bus, I had 3 to transfers to take, and I was up since 5:30am(8am by this time).
She was not disabled/pregnant/elderly or a small child. Then she was so pissed when I told her “no you fought for equality etc etc”, She went on for 20 mins about how her sons would treat women right. Since when does having a vagina entitle women to a mans seat? Maybe if she was my friend. I would definitely give it up for my wife. But not a stranger.
Am I completely missing the point of equality?[/quote]
No, I don’t think you’re missing the point. The problem is the double standard that prevails in society. I used to take the chivalrous white knight approach, but it seemed empty and distasteful to me after a certain time. It seems patronizing to both sexes, implying that (a) men are worth less than women and (b) women are delicate to the point of being helpless. So no, I don’t see why a 40yo woman is more entitled to a seat than anyone else. However:
*If someone is actually going to the trouble of asking me for a seat, they probably care a lot more about sitting than I do.
*The golden rule tends to make the world a nicer place. So abandoning chivalry, in practice, doesn’t result in treating women less nice, but treating other men as nice as I would treat a woman.
*The elderly obviously still get first dibsies on bus seats and squat racks.
But back to the OP topic: Did she throw you death stares the rest of your ride or did she move on? I didn’t want to open up the whole Costco Club Pack sized can of worms the whole “double standard” thing this all rings of
[quote]dirtman wrote:
I have been taking the bus to save money. Today an older women in her late 40’s early 50’s said. I should give up my seat for a lady. I told her she fought for equality and I am sitting. It was a pack bus, I had 3 to transfers to take, and I was up since 5:30am(8am by this time).
She was not disabled/pregnant/elderly or a small child. Then she was so pissed when I told her “no you fought for equality etc etc”, She went on for 20 mins about how her sons would treat women right. Since when does having a vagina entitle women to a mans seat? Maybe if she was my friend. I would definitely give it up for my wife. But not a stranger.
Am I completely missing the point of equality?[/quote]
No, I don’t think you’re missing the point. The problem is the double standard that prevails in society. I used to take the chivalrous white knight approach, but it seemed empty and distasteful to me after a certain time. It seems patronizing to both sexes, implying that (a) men are worth less than women and (b) women are delicate to the point of being helpless. So no, I don’t see why a 40yo woman is more entitled to a seat than anyone else. However:
*If someone is actually going to the trouble of asking me for a seat, they probably care a lot more about sitting than I do.
*The golden rule tends to make the world a nicer place. So abandoning chivalry, in practice, doesn’t result in treating women less nice, but treating other men as nice as I would treat a woman.
*The elderly obviously still get first dibsies on bus seats and squat racks.[/quote]
Men don’t want to be treated nicely (we aren’t women) but rather we want to be treated like men.
It’s also funny to read someone say he would give up his seat to a pregnant woman. Well, you can’t always tell if a woman is pregnant by looking at her so what do you do then? [/quote]
You don’t give her your seat, because being pregnant in the first trimester is not debilitating. I think we are far enough along as a species (to the tune of 7+ billion) that we don’t have to worship every human that has successfully procreated.
Every single point being made for giving up the seat requires the assumption that women are weak.
It’s also funny to read someone say he would give up his seat to a pregnant woman. Well, you can’t always tell if a woman is pregnant by looking at her so what do you do then? [/quote]
You don’t give her your seat, because being pregnant in the first trimester is not debilitating. I think we are far enough along as a species (to the tune of 7+ billion) that we don’t have to worship every human that has successfully procreated.
Every single point being made for giving up the seat requires the assumption that women are weak. [/quote]
No. They require the assumption you weren’t raised by wolves.
