Ephedrine Banned Again

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
matt88 wrote:
IMO -The reason ephedra is being banned and/or regulated (psuedoephedrine) is due to methamphetamine production.
They are useing a few poster boy incidents to justify the ban but in reality it’s because they couldn’t control the meth production.
Since the ban and regulation of ephedrine based products they are busting less meth labs and production in the U.S. is on the decline.
Meth use however is NOT on the decline - it now gets smuggled across the border from Mexico and the severity of the problem remains unchanged.

I see over-the-counter drugs that are abused and used to MANUFACTURE METH.
I don’t see the FDA pulling these drugs off the shelves.
But ephedra is should be?
B.S.

Actually they have been pulled off the shelf. They are behind the counter so they cannot be stolen, etc.

What’s the difference?
Are you saying people can’t abuse prescription drugs because they’re not on the shelf?
People abuse prescription drugs every year.[/quote]

No, I am saying they are trying to reduce the availability of these items so they cannot be converted to meth as easily.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
No, I am saying they are trying to reduce the availability of these items so they cannot be converted to meth as easily.
[/quote]

They are trying to find a publicly acceptable way to eliminate the availability of any non prescription substance that makes the prescription versions of anything foisted on the public by their big money contributors less necessary.

These political whores couldn’t care less if every teenage meth user in the country, probably including their own children, dropped dead tomorrow. It’s all about keeping the money flowing in the right direction.

BTW, the government has no money to foot the bill with. It’s YOUR money that they legally extort from YOU through taxation.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
No, I am saying they are trying to reduce the availability of these items so they cannot be converted to meth as easily.

They are trying to find a publicly acceptable way to eliminate the availability of any non prescription substance that makes the prescription versions of anything foisted on the public by their big money contributors less necessary.

These political whores couldn’t care less if every teenage meth user in the country, probably including their own children, dropped dead tomorrow. It’s all about keeping the money flowing in the right direction.

BTW, the government has no money to foot the bill with. It’s YOUR money that they legally extort from YOU through taxation.[/quote]

I would think a bigger effort to get rid of crack cocaine at “the source” would be top priority. I’m surprised by anyone who thinks they have the public’s best interests as their top motivating factor.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I would think a bigger effort to get rid of crack cocaine at “the source” would be top priority. I’m surprised by anyone who thinks they have the public’s best interests as their top motivating factor.[/quote]

This is a valid point, but as long as there’s demand there is, make no mistake, going to be supply. The only meaningful and lasting solution to the scourge of street drugs is for people to stop wanting them and that will never be accomplished by any government.

As far as the FDA is concerned, what if we could wave a magic wand and starting now everybody in the United States gets enough exercise, eats all the right foods, quits smoking, quits excessive drinking etc. and five years from now every behaviorally induced condition the public is now dying from is largely gone.

Prescription drug use is now a fraction of what it was, doctors visits are down 80%, the pharmaceutical companies are hemorrhaging money because so many fewer people need their drugs now and as a result they can’t afford all the lobbying campaigns anymore. That doesn’t really matter anyway because the public is on to the fact that they never really needed alot of that shit in the first place.

On top of that the FDA’s astronomical budget cannot be justified because they have so much less to do. Layoffs and salary cuts ensue among many other other high level consequences.

Granted this is oversimplified, but not by that much. They have every reason to make sure nothing happens to get the public too healthy. They’re in a perfect position now too because the public has largely bought their deathcare propaganda and they know full well that all their benevolent recommendations will fall on deaf ears so they can look like they give a shit at the same time that it does no good.

I know I’m probably the most cynical bastard you ever heard of, but I’m unable to reach more optimistic conclusions based on what I see.

[Gambles]

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
Haha, I love the guy who touts rense.com as a source of accurate info.
Makow--Destroy! Rock Music's Satanic Message

This is an article about how the true goal of rock and roll is to recruit children into Satanism…yea, yea. (It all comes down to the Illuminati’s control of the government, you see).

I can’t even tell who’s trolling and who’s not anymore.[/quote]

DUDE, we’re not even talking abou that

[Gambles]

[quote]starsil9 wrote:
pwilliams wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
Drug abusers cost our nation over $67 billion dollars per year.
Maybe the FDA needs to focus on that,not supplement abuse.
Two thousand people die every year by simply taking asprin.
I don’t see the FDA emptying peoples medicine cabinets out.
Their only goal is money.

One fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year.

The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5)

And the FDA’s major concern is people taking too much ephedra?
Did you know creatine is on their hate-list also?
Please.

Where are you getting these numbers? (not that I am saying they are wrong)

I can give testimony to the fact that these numbers are correct. I’ve read them on rense.com and Dr. Mercola’s website. If you go to Jeff Rense’s site and search the archives on medical deaths you should be able to pull it up, and they had references and links to sites along with the article.

It was actually a pretty interesting read as the guy that did the research pointed out that the 783,936 deaths by conventional medicine is probably much lower that the real number. He pointed out that often times the Doctors will perscribe the wrong drug and kill a patient, which is not listed as medical or malpractice death but it is listed as a drug interaction death, plus many times the patients death is listed as natural or unavoidable due to their ailments.

He also pointed out that the number of patients that are mis treated, mis diagnosed, even if it did not result in death, is more likely to be much higher than his numbers show as the medical community does their best to hide these problems, not report them or cover them up.

He explains that the biggest problem with Doctors is that there is no accurate reporting method for cataloging their errors, and doing so is greatly discouraged. The medical system is not set up to provide a clear number on this point, and there are no standard practices available to them for reporting purposes.

As he pointed out, these were only the numbers that were reported and far from complete. Given that, in reality it is even scarier than the numbers show.

Ain’t that a bummer!!!

Big Pharma is the devil incarnate, they would pull every healthy thing from the shelves feed us posion, tell us it is regulated and good for us, and then monopolize our treatments so that there is no possibility for us to ever get well.

Why do they target Bodybuilding supplements. Healthy strong men and women do not go to the doctor often, nor take their meds. Only way to keep up their profits is to turn us all into unhealthy fat disgustingly sick people, that way we will keep going back and getting more of their meds for our ills!!!

Oh! also, how can we trust a Agency that put nutra sweet on the shelves?

Another fact, the year Nutra Sweet was approved brain tumors jumped 30% that year and climbing ever since!!

BTW Nutra Sweet never passed one toxicology study back in the 1970s NOT ONE, interacted with almost every drug ingested. It is a neuro-excitotoxin causes obesity and fat gain!!!

Don’t believe me on Nutra-Sweet, go search it out on the Web, read the book “Sweet Posion Sweet Misery” the information is there. Nasty Nasty stuff!!

And not only no but hell no do the number of people experienceing reactions from herbs even come close to big pharma meds. Hell the chinese have been using herbal formulas for thousands of years with no ill side effects. Some of the Chinese Herbal Patent Formulas are 5000 years old. What’s the oldest pharmaceutical I think it is Digitalis which is like 110 years old.

Go search this stuff out on the web lots of great referenced info out there to look at!!!

[/quote]

just so you know aren’t the best sources to get the truth from and have history’s of distorting and stretching the tuth. although i’ll agree that NUTRASWEET is a neurotoxin.

[Gambles]

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Gambles wrote:
rawda wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
Gambles wrote:
======Update============
OTC Orlistat could be in mass market production by the end of next year. wach GNC or Vitamin Shoppe Toute it as the new ephedrine (although most people know it isn’t) . then when people abuse it like they abused ephedrine ad die from : Dehydration,Malnutriton,Stomach bleeding (according to holistic med’s website). and see how fast the FDA acts on banning OTC and Prescription Orlistat.

it might take them 5-6 years to decide that orlistat is un-safe , 2 more years to actual try to ban it, & 5 or more years after consumer protest (yeha right) to get rid of it all together. sofar the fda and gnc have backed the idea of banning ephedra (all together) and puting otc orlistat in place of it. If we dont step up and take acttion now it will be a matter of time till all supps will be replaced by OTC drugs.

There you go.
OTC Orlistat is a PRESCRIPTION.
Ephedra isn’t.
That means more money$$$.

close. otc means over the counter, so no, it’s not a prescription, by definition.

but, orlistat otc is a man-made drug, and therefore can (and does) have patent protection, thereby making it worthwhile for drug companies to market. whereas ephedra is a naturally occuring substance, and therefore cannot be patented.

NO the point was that GNC and Vitamin shoppe will toute it as a maricle in a bottle .

I don’t even trust GNC anymore.
Maybe 10 years ago or 20,they were in it to help people with natural products.
But now it’s all about the money.
I wouldn’t be surprised if GNC were siding with drug companies on selling this drug.[/quote]

agreed
we need to get someone to do an expose on gnc’s business practices . LOL

[KSman]

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
What’s the oldest pharmaceutical I think it is Digitalis which is like 110 years old.

[/quote]

Digitalis aka the plant Foxglove, is part of the herbal tradition and folk medicine.

[matt88]

[quote]Gambles wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
harris447 wrote:
matt88 wrote:
IMO -The reason ephedra is being banned and/or regulated (psuedoephedrine) is due to methamphetamine production.
They are useing a few poster boy incidents to justify the ban but in reality it’s because they couldn’t control the meth production.
Since the ban and regulation of ephedrine based products they are busting less meth labs and production in the U.S. is on the decline.
Meth use however is NOT on the decline - it now gets smuggled across the border from Mexico and the severity of the problem remains unchanged.

This might, however, be the only way to get rid of meth.

The government has done this before. Ever wonder why there’s no such thing as qualuudes any more? It’s because the US government "persuaded’ all the factories around the world (I think there were only seven or so) to stop making the base ingredient.

Meth is similar in that the base ingredient is complicated enough to need to be manufactured in a serious facility by skilled, trained people.

get the factories to make something else, end the existence of meth.

Banning supplements like Ephedra might be the only way of getting rid of Meth?
Triple C derives its name from Coricidin Cough and Cold. This cold medicine, along with dozens of others including some pediatric cold formulas, contains dextramethorphan (DXM). When used in prescribed doses, DXM helps alleviate cold symptoms. When taken in large quantities, it makes kids high.
As long as we have over-the-counter drugs that can be abused,which will always be here, there will always be Meth or drugs like Meth.

If the FDA is concerned about the dangers of Ephedra being used for METH production,then they should be equally concerned about Triple C and drugs like Triple C.

Why aren’t they?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

You didn’t understand my point at al and then made up some nonsense about DXM that has nohing to do with anything.

How is it made up?

Please do some reading before declaring something complete nonsense/fiction.
Sure it does:
Them banning supplements but keeping drugs that are used to produce Meth on the market.
A little double standard.
Maybe I misread your post.
But what do you expect from some who has the typing skills of a 6 yr old kid?

matt88 have you ever herd of PHARM parties ya know where the use drugs like: Oxycodone , RX Atropine, Codine,morphine,respadol, DXM , DLs , Arosol Inhalers , almost leathl ammounts of golfastin & Caffine together etc…

do ya think the fda will ban those beacuse they can be dangerous and can get you high. heres a hint to the answer it begins with N and ends with O

[/quote]

You’re right, the answer "begins with an N and ends with an O. That wasn’t my point. It is a fact that meth production has been on the decline in the US since the ban. People can no longer go into the convienience mart and buy a case of minithins to cook up a batch of meth. You can’t even get a single box of sudafed in Missouri without them checking your ID and writing it down

Do I like it? No. Do I understand it?Yes. Your point about the “pharm” parties makes no sense. All of the drugs you mentioned have a legitimate medical purpose outside of partying. People will always abuse these drugs but they should not be banned unless a better or equally effective alternative is created.

Ephedrine and psudoephedrine are primarily used as a decongestant. Not life threatening or debilitating compared to something like chronic pain or even coughing persistantly. Besides that, it hasn’t been “banned” - it is now “controlled”. You can still pull off your ECA stack - it’s just not as easy as it used to be.

I personally think it sucks that it had to come down to this but I do understand it. I’ve seen first hand what meth can do to a person and even an entire community - it’s not pretty.

[Marmadogg]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
No, I am saying they are trying to reduce the availability of these items so they cannot be converted to meth as easily.

They are trying to find a publicly acceptable way to eliminate the availability of any non prescription substance that makes the prescription versions of anything foisted on the public by their big money contributors less necessary.

These political whores couldn’t care less if every teenage meth user in the country, probably including their own children, dropped dead tomorrow. It’s all about keeping the money flowing in the right direction.

BTW, the government has no money to foot the bill with. It’s YOUR money that they legally extort from YOU through taxation.[/quote]

B-f’ing-ingo!!!

[Gambles]

[quote]matt88 wrote:
Gambles wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
harris447 wrote:
matt88 wrote:
IMO -The reason ephedra is being banned and/or regulated (psuedoephedrine) is due to methamphetamine production.
They are useing a few poster boy incidents to justify the ban but in reality it’s because they couldn’t control the meth production.
Since the ban and regulation of ephedrine based products they are busting less meth labs and production in the U.S. is on the decline.
Meth use however is NOT on the decline - it now gets smuggled across the border from Mexico and the severity of the problem remains unchanged.

This might, however, be the only way to get rid of meth.

The government has done this before. Ever wonder why there’s no such thing as qualuudes any more? It’s because the US government "persuaded’ all the factories around the world (I think there were only seven or so) to stop making the base ingredient.

Meth is similar in that the base ingredient is complicated enough to need to be manufactured in a serious facility by skilled, trained people.

get the factories to make something else, end the existence of meth.

Banning supplements like Ephedra might be the only way of getting rid of Meth?
Triple C derives its name from Coricidin Cough and Cold. This cold medicine, along with dozens of others including some pediatric cold formulas, contains dextramethorphan (DXM). When used in prescribed doses, DXM helps alleviate cold symptoms. When taken in large quantities, it makes kids high.
As long as we have over-the-counter drugs that can be abused,which will always be here, there will always be Meth or drugs like Meth.

If the FDA is concerned about the dangers of Ephedra being used for METH production,then they should be equally concerned about Triple C and drugs like Triple C.

Why aren’t they?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

You didn’t understand my point at al and then made up some nonsense about DXM that has nohing to do with anything.

How is it made up?

Please do some reading before declaring something complete nonsense/fiction.
Sure it does:
Them banning supplements but keeping drugs that are used to produce Meth on the market.
A little double standard.
Maybe I misread your post.
But what do you expect from some who has the typing skills of a 6 yr old kid?

matt88 have you ever herd of PHARM parties ya know where the use drugs like: Oxycodone , RX Atropine, Codine,morphine,respadol, DXM , DLs , Arosol Inhalers , almost leathl ammounts of golfastin & Caffine together etc…

do ya think the fda will ban those beacuse they can be dangerous and can get you high. heres a hint to the answer it begins with N and ends with O

You’re right, the answer "begins with an N and ends with an O. That wasn’t my point. It is a fact that meth production has been on the decline in the US since the ban. People can no longer go into the convienience mart and buy a case of minithins to cook up a batch of meth. You can’t even get a single box of sudafed in Missouri without them checking your ID and writing it down

Do I like it? No. Do I understand it?Yes. Your point about the “pharm” parties makes no sense. All of the drugs you mentioned have a legitimate medical purpose outside of partying. People will always abuse these drugs but they should not be banned unless a better or equally effective alternative is created.

Ephedrine and psudoephedrine are primarily used as a decongestant. Not life threatening or debilitating compared to something like chronic pain or even coughing persistantly. Besides that, it hasn’t been “banned” - it is now “controlled”. You can still pull off your ECA stack - it’s just not as easy as it used to be.

I personally think it sucks that it had to come down to this but I do understand it. I’ve seen first hand what meth can do to a person and even an entire community - it’s not pretty.[/quote]
Ok thanks for the clarification.

[Gambles]

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Gambles wrote:
rawda wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
Gambles wrote:
======Update============
OTC Orlistat could be in mass market production by the end of next year. wach GNC or Vitamin Shoppe Toute it as the new ephedrine (although most people know it isn’t) . then when people abuse it like they abused ephedrine ad die from : Dehydration,Malnutriton,Stomach bleeding (according to holistic med’s website). and see how fast the FDA acts on banning OTC and Prescription Orlistat.

it might take them 5-6 years to decide that orlistat is un-safe , 2 more years to actual try to ban it, & 5 or more years after consumer protest (yeha right) to get rid of it all together. sofar the fda and gnc have backed the idea of banning ephedra (all together) and puting otc orlistat in place of it. If we dont step up and take acttion now it will be a matter of time till all supps will be replaced by OTC drugs.

There you go.
OTC Orlistat is a PRESCRIPTION.
Ephedra isn’t.
That means more money$$$.

close. otc means over the counter, so no, it’s not a prescription, by definition.

but, orlistat otc is a man-made drug, and therefore can (and does) have patent protection, thereby making it worthwhile for drug companies to market. whereas ephedra is a naturally occuring substance, and therefore cannot be patented.

NO the point was that GNC and Vitamin shoppe will toute it as a maricle in a bottle .

I don’t even trust GNC anymore.
Maybe 10 years ago or 20,they were in it to help people with natural products.
But now it’s all about the money.
I wouldn’t be surprised if GNC were siding with drug companies on selling this drug.[/quote]It wouldn’t surprise me that if once the OTC patent runs out on it thy will try to re-patent and make it a “GNC Exclusive” product like they did with N02. which is almost impossible to find.