[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
slickid wrote:
Funny how ephedra killed a few people but alcohol and cigs kill thousands every year…
Only a few people died who where taking Ephedra. There is no conclusive evidence showing that it was the cause of their deaths. Also,the people who died taking it had other health issues such as heart problems and were not healthy. No healthy adult taking the recommended dosage,or even going a little over that, died taking Ephedra.
In fact,several thousand people die each year taking the recommended dosage of advil. I don’t see that being taken off of the shelves. Why not? Because it cuts into their profits. Here we are,America,with diabetes at an all time record high, and all the FDA is doing is taking EFFECTIVE supplements out of our hands.
They did it with Ephedra twice.
They did it with the prohormones in MAG-10,and now they’ll even do it again to supplements like creatine.
Hell,I won’t be surprised if I saw them ban protein powders. [/quote]
No doubt. Even Dr. Micheal Baden of HBO fame who examined the baseball player (name?) who died said that ephedra was likely not a deciding factor. Shit I ate 200 plus mg a day years back and my blood pressure, standing heart rate etc. was exemplary. Of course I was training hard and taking immaculate care of myself then too.
Too much of anything including water can kill you. It’s ridiculous how these babysitting politicians want to save us from ourselves and remove our means of protecting our families from the psychopathic butchers in our midst.
[quote]bboisvert wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
No,but when you can be Ephedra products legally on the internet,the ban is usually lifted-that or they want to get their asses sued,then face jail time.
They’re pretty commercial about it. I don’t see why they’d advertise it all over the internet if it’s illegal.
Saying “you can buy it on some random internet sites” is rarely a good argument for an item’s legality.
Can you buy this at GNC? Or any other legit store? Or just a bunch of random outfits you’ve never heard of.
The Ephedra ban in still in place.[/quote]
GNC stopped selling Ephedra based products after the first ban. They’re covoring their asses.
Look… all I’m saying is that the initial ban, the overturn, and then the overturn of the overturn were HUGE news stories. All over CNN, all over the national and even local news.
You’re telling me that this is now overturned AGAIN and that it’s legal again. I’m just asking for a single source – a news report, a court ruling, even a note on a health site.
You don’t find the lack of any evidence a little troublesome?
[quote]bboisvert wrote:
Look… all I’m saying is that the initial ban, the overturn, and then the overturn of the overturn were HUGE news stories. All over CNN, all over the national and even local news.
You’re telling me that this is now overturned AGAIN and that it’s legal again. I’m just asking for a single source – a news report, a court ruling, even a note on a health site.
You don’t find the lack of any evidence a little troublesome?
You’ll notice that it’s only 4 weeks old and they just filed a petition to ask the US Supreme Court to review this. It is still banned.[/quote]
Once again,I really don’t care what the news says. If I see more than three websites selling Ephedra,and I see it sold in some stores,then it is now legal. Period. I can’t find a news source too,but I can’t do anything about that. All this thread is for is to inform people that it is now being sold again,which is a fact because I and trib have both seen it and there are websites up where you can buy it from.
[quote]bboisvert wrote:
<<< It is still banned.[/quote]
Defining the word banned may be helpful here. It still can’t be marketed as a nutritional supplement, but I just posted above that TODAY I held a box in my hand and the guy who owns the store gave me the lowdown on what the rules are for selling it. You would think he would know.
As far as I know, Ephedrine HCL has never been banned, and has always been available in products like Vasopro as a bronchial dilator for asthma.
Why risk buying some random supplement from an unknown site claiming it’s legal with no proof, when it’s so easy to get and combine with caffeine yourself (and probably cheaper)?
I bet I could find a site that’s selling steroids if I looked hard enough, but that doesn’t mean they’re legal too.
[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
I really don’t care what the news says. If I see more than three websites selling Ephedra,and I see it sold in some stores,then it is now legal. Period. I can’t find a news source too,but I can’t do anything about that. [/quote]
I give up.
Your definition of “legal” is different than mine. And, apparently, different than the actual law.
If I find you 3 websites selling bootleg DVDs and also point you to some stores in NYC that do the same… does that make those legal too?
[quote]bboisvert wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
I really don’t care what the news says. If I see more than three websites selling Ephedra,and I see it sold in some stores,then it is now legal. Period. I can’t find a news source too,but I can’t do anything about that.
I give up.
Your definition of “legal” is different than mine. And, apparently, different than the actual law.
If I find you 3 websites selling bootleg DVDs and also point you to some stores in NYC that do the same… does that make those legal too?[/quote]
Do you think I’m lying to you? The guy at the store TODAY told me he had to pay for a federal license to sell it LEGALLY which he does. You have to sign for it and cannot buy more than 2 boxes in a day. This can’t be that hard to grasp.
Do you think I’m lying to you? The guy at the store TODAY told me he had to pay for a federal license to sell it LEGALLY which he does. You have to sign for it and cannot buy more than 2 boxes in a day. This can’t be that hard to grasp.[/quote]
I don’t think you’re lying, but is is possible that the guy at the store is lying to you?
I know, it would sound stupid for him to risk it, but people make stupid risks every day.
I also think there would be more “buzz” about it on non-supplement selling websites.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Do you think I’m lying to you? The guy at the store TODAY told me he had to pay for a federal license to sell it LEGALLY which he does. You have to sign for it and cannot buy more than 2 boxes in a day. This can’t be that hard to grasp.[/quote]
I don’t think you’re lying to me. I’m sure you bought some today and I’m sure that’s exactly what he told you.
What I’m saying that in the whole wide world of the internet, no one can provide me with a single link to any reputable source of information even relating to this. So I’m not sure that I’m going to believe the word of some random liquor store clerk.
That’s just how I roll…
If this is in fact the case, where’s the federal site where I can download a license application? Where’s any information about this?
Seriously, is that so “hard to grasp”? I’m just asking for someone to provide me with any sort of clear information… not some website in the Netherlands selling pills or a guy in the back of a local store who says he has a ‘license from the feds’.
No dosage of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids is safe and the sale of these products in the United States is illegal and subject to FDA enforcement action.
I’ve followed this thread with great interest. I find it interesting that people are on completely opposite sides of an issue that must be a fact. Some of you say you legally bought Ephedra while others say that the government ban is still in effect and point out how there does not seem to be a government site that shows the ban to be lifted.
I don’t think anyone here is lying, but obviously it can’t be both ways; either it is legal or not. I have not had much luck myself finding a recent,unbiased source of information. I’m hoping some others with more information will chime in here.
Do you think I’m lying to you? The guy at the store TODAY told me he had to pay for a federal license to sell it LEGALLY which he does. You have to sign for it and cannot buy more than 2 boxes in a day. This can’t be that hard to grasp.
I don’t think you’re lying, but is is possible that the guy at the store is lying to you?
I know, it would sound stupid for him to risk it, but people make stupid risks every day.
I also think there would be more “buzz” about it on non-supplement selling websites.[/quote]
If he were lying to him,then he wouldn’t be marketing them that way. He wouldn’t have them on the counter for sale where everyone can see it.
Assuming that it is illegal,the FDA would probably find out and confiscate the products and he’d be charged with the crime. I don’t think he’d risk going to prison,losing his job,and selling ephedra with little to no profit.
[quote]bboisvert wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Do you think I’m lying to you? The guy at the store TODAY told me he had to pay for a federal license to sell it LEGALLY which he does. You have to sign for it and cannot buy more than 2 boxes in a day. This can’t be that hard to grasp.
I don’t think you’re lying to me. I’m sure you bought some today and I’m sure that’s exactly what he told you.
What I’m saying that in the whole wide world of the internet, no one can provide me with a single link to any reputable source of information even relating to this. So I’m not sure that I’m going to believe the word of some random liquor store clerk.
That’s just how I roll…
If this is in fact the case, where’s the federal site where I can download a license application? Where’s any information about this?
Seriously, is that so “hard to grasp”? I’m just asking for someone to provide me with any sort of clear information… not some website in the Netherlands selling pills or a guy in the back of a local store who says he has a ‘license from the feds’.
No dosage of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids is safe and the sale of these products in the United States is illegal and subject to FDA enforcement action.[/quote]
You are asking for someone to provide some source of information other than a website. You were given a website and product name.
If you can buy Ephedra from more than 3 websites,then it is back. Period.
That is the whole point of this thread.
You might have to have a license to sell and market the product('s) accordingly, maybe not. But, once again,that is not the point of this thread,nor does it matter. The point is you can buy Ephedra again because I went to a fill-out page for the product and shipping information. Go do a search on it.
I don’t think 20 websites are going to risk being shut down,sued,and the people running them going to prison over selling the supplement. My statements are well validated.
[quote]slickid wrote:
What’s the status on the banning of creatine? Should I have a year2000 stock up of the stuff?[/quote]
From what I’ve heard,it’s already on their hate list.
Nevertheless,I wouldn’t be surprised if they did ban it since almost every supplement they’ve banned has been effective with little to no side effects. Creatine is pretty much the only somewhat effective supplement left right now,as far as muscle gains are concerned.
We need to distinguish between ephedra and ephedrine. Ephedra is still banned and the ruling that overturned the April 15 2005 ruling is still in place.
Ephedrine however is legally purchaseable and has always been from pharmacies and other licensed stores. Most require a form of ID to be presented and a signature at the time of purchase. There is nothing new about this and nothing has changed. I don’ blame people for getting confused.
I know the difference between the two. The websites are selling Ephedra,not ephedrine,thus permitting me to come to the conclusion that it is not currently banned. The fact still remains that I can buy ephedra,right now.
Either they all like going to prison and being sued,or our government doesn’t care if they’re selling illegal supplement-which I highly doubt.
[quote]bdog527 wrote:
We need to distinguish between ephedra and ephedrine. Ephedra is still banned and the ruling that overturned the April 15 2005 ruling is still in place.
Ephedrine however is legally purchaseable and has always been from pharmacies and other licensed stores. Most require a form of ID to be presented and a signature at the time of purchase. There is nothing new about this and nothing has changed. I don’ blame people for getting confused.
I can point you to a store that sells legit Cuban cigars. I can also show you several websites that sell them. That does not make them legal. If the FDA’s website says it is illegal to sell Ephedra, I don’t think there’s anything left to discuss.
People very well may be selling ephedra, but that doesn’t mean it’s legal to do so.
[quote]OneEye wrote:
I can point you to a store that sells legit Cuban cigars. I can also show you several websites that sell them. That does not make them legal. If the FDA’s website says it is illegal to sell Ephedra, I don’t think there’s anything left to discuss.
People very well may be selling ephedra, but that doesn’t mean it’s legal to do so.[/quote]
Once again,the thread wasn’t about it being unbanned. It’s about there being multiple sources of ephedra,which didn’t exist when it was banned last year. I highly doubt your cigar store is selling cuban cigars out in the open. They don’t have a sign that says “Cuban cigars for sale” when you walk in there.